I would hope that rather than dissuade these narrowly focused students, respondents would guide them to also apply to realistic and safety schools too. That’s the concern. On another thread, a veteran poster advised the OP (a wildly unrealistic transfer applicant to Harvard) consider the Dunning-Kruger effect – I had to google it and it is harsh – but sadly apt for that particular thread
Dunning and Kruger introduced their theory in a paper entitled: “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments". Ouch!
I think that describes some who toss in the Hail Mary applications to selective schools too. I’ve met kids like this at info sessions I’ve given and I’m sure guidance counselors can tell you their experiences too.
I agree that uninformed decisions are never preferable, regardless of the topic.
But I have to go against the norm here and say that I think prestige is a perfectly acceptable criteria for choosing a college, if it is important to someone.
It’s not why I selected my (non-ivy!) college, and it is not how my children are making their list (they both prefer small schools) but I think it is fine to do, especially if you have a balanced list. I can’t see why it is worse than considering a school’s food, weather, dorm quality, or greek system, etc. in the process.
WAY too much of that happening in my world these days.
Hello everyone, it’s been some time since I’ve joined you all and this topic has always intrigued me!!
Many of you know our long, tedious back breaking struggle to make it through the 2013-2014 admissions process.
My daughter was accepted to 3 of the 4 Ivies that she applied to. She decided on Yale and during Bulldog Days, I had a chance to chat with a few of the admissions counselors.
Each one said that each student jumped off of the page/file and grabbed them by the collar & made them take notice. So think of HSC admissions like this…Their grades, their EC’s, their LOR’s, their stories all were like a unique recipe which made them very special people. Like an ingredient on a store shelf, they are mundane, non descript and don’t make much of an impression. But when added to other ingredients, they make an incredible meal that become everyone’s favorite!
But the usual questions show they have done next to no research on those colleges. How savvy is that? They can’t figure out the first thing about what these colleges look for, and assume if they are tops in their high school, by gummy, they are Tippy Top material. Or that if they haven’t one so well in hs, but really, really want to go there, that should be enough. They forget: you don’t deign to choose the college, they have to want you.
At this tier of schools, an application has to make a case for admission. However, making a case does not necessarily lead to admission. So it is “rational” with some randomness.
I think the first poster said it all. For just about everyone, it is a long shot. Very long shot. But just like the lottery, you can’t win if you don’t play.
Man, I hate the ‘can’t win if you don’t play.’ Would you play tennis in hockey gear? Would you assume it could be Varsity tennis cuz you were a great peewee player? Does it matter if you really, really, really want to be on the Olympic team and any team will do? Or you’ll just show them a nice LoR? I could have fun with this one.
Know Thy Targets. Means more than their names and deadlines.
Those who got into ivies are all deserving. Not all deserving apllicants get in. I have no problem with prestige. Indeed, I consider prestige as the most important factor. If Harvard only serves pizza in its cafeteria, I would still go there.
The Ivies enroll 14000 freshmen per year. There are over 3.2 million high school graduates each year. It’s not a “crapshoot” if the applicant is in the top 1% (academically and non-academically) nationwide.
@BoiDel, the name of the thread has to do with ivies at large. It doesn’t demonstrate someone who chose a particular ivy like me, that’s why I positioned my answer in that way. I chose Cornell because the Nobel Prizer Winner in Quantum Mechanics was there, and it was my thing. Just trying to caution folks that ivies per se, are not a pinnacle of some kind. But the message remains you can maximize your chances at any school (including ivies) by doing your homework, and research what makes it a good match.
Woah. Didn’t expect so many replies – thank you!! All of your posts have been enlightening and I appreciate the response.
As for those who seem to imply I’m merely an attention-seeking, prestige-loving, Ivy-obsessed applicant… ;). Lol, I know where you all are coming from; I’ve seen far too many of those for my liking. I’d like to consider myself just a regular teenager trying to get into a good school, however.
I’m applying to (U)Penn Early Decision (Huntsman Program in International Business/Studies, specifically) and just wanted to know what the CC community thought about Ivy League (although I really should’ve said “top school”!) admissions. Although I won’t deny there are factors such as prestige and name-value that played into my applying to Penn (and other Ivies and “top” schools), Penn specifically is simply a great fit for my personality and ambitions. I’d like to think that this was reflected in my Why Upenn and Huntsman essays, as well as my personal essay (to an extent), but a busy, tired, coffee-drinking admissions officer may not think so after reading 30 or 40 essays in succession.
I was in something of a rush when asking the original question, but if you’ll all allow me to elaborate: how can admissions officers ensure to any reasonable degree that they’re accepting the best fit for their college? How can, being tired and having to read everything in succession for hours and hours on end, they claim to really glean enough about an applicant from just test scores, GPA, and a few 600 word essays to know that one candidate will better serve the university than another? Isn’t this just a crapshoot disguised as a rational process?
From college’s admissions office, the process is probably as rational as it can be, given the college’s admission goals and the nature of its applications.
From the outside, meaning from the applicants’ point of view, it can look mysterious or random if one has high enough baseline stats to have a realistic chance.
Here’s an estimate of the odds. The Ivies receive 260,000 freshmen applications per year and issue 24,000 acceptances. Assuming approximately 200,000 applicants are academically qualified the odds are less than 1 out of 8. The odds of rolling a “7” on a pair of dice are 1 out of 6.
It’s not an Ivy but The Dean of Admissions at Tufts has written on the admissions blog that 74% of 20,000 applicants had the academic qualifications to be admitted. The Ivies probably receive even more qualified applicants.
IMO the admissions process at competitive colleges is about 50% rational and 50% crap-shoot.
I think there are a number of exceptional apps that are immediately accepted and a number that have almost nothing remarkable (immediate reject). That is the rational part.
Then comes the tough job of sorting through the remaining large number of very good apps for a small number of slots. This is where something in an essay resonates with one AO that would be passed over by another. Or one AO senses a LOR is half-hearted and votes no. This is what I consider the crap-shoot nature of the process.
Don’t we all know students who have a reach acceptance and also one or more rejections from less competitive schools? Or a mix of accepts and rejects from highly similar schools? To me this is evidence of the crap-shoot element.
Some will say that colleges look for different things, or trot out the “shortage of bassoonists” fable. I don’t entirely buy it. Within a class of schools (the Ivies for example), I really think they are all looking for about the same range of attributes in their incoming class.
