<h2><strong>EXCEPTION</strong>: Only school where I've seen 2300+'s routinely denied/deferred is MIT.</h2>
<p>Are you joking? Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford both routinely deny people with 2300's plus all the other stuff that is mentioned in the original post.</p>
<p>I'd say your chances rise to maybe 30% (from about 10%) or so if you have all that stuff.</p>
<p>One guy I know that was shut out of HYPS:
-straight A's from a high school like Bronx Science
-most advanced curriculum, taking junior level college math classes by senior year
-did reasonably impressive research
-double legacy at Harvard
-top 150 in country in math (USAMO qualifier when only 150 made it)
-national champion ARML team + many other math/science awards
-his recs must have been awesome because he was a genius
-near perfect stats
-had some other ECs that he did for fun but no "hooks"</p>
<p>I know quite a few people like that actually. And I've heard admissions is even harder now.</p>
<p>So I'd say, if you have an exceptional record then you've got a shot, but it's still a bit of a crapshoot. I do think you have a good shot (read: <em>maybe</em> greater than 50% chance) that you will get into <em>one</em> of the HYPMS but there still is no guarantee. (Caltech is more probable since they value strong students more.) I think it is very probable that you will get into at least one of the ivies, though, if you've got a truly bulletproof record (straight A's, 770+ on all SATI and II sections, etc.)</p>
<p>I think 3.9 UW from top magnet school is very strong GPA. From D's high school statistics, it seems to support what truanz is trying to say here. In fact the 2400 students, perfect SAT IIs, with strong GPA above 4.40 UC GPA rarely get rejected anywhere. I don't know about the UW GPA. I know their ECs are light.</p>
<h2>I think 3.9 UW from top magnet school is very strong GPA. From D's high school statistics, it seems to support what truanz is trying to say here. In fact the 2400 students, perfect SAT IIs, with strong GPA above 4.40 UC GPA rarely get rejected anywhere. I don't know about the UW GPA. I know their ECs are light.</h2>
<p>I went to a top magnet school--more than half (>70 people) were national merit finalists. The year I graduated we also had the most people qualify for AIME in the country. And the results were not like the OP has stated. 2 people got into Princeton, maybe 3-4 got into Harvard. Stanford took a lot (~10-15) but the vast majority were not the top students so the top students did not do that well. MIT also took a lot (~10) but admissions there has changed. The top 10 people generally got into at least one or two of the HYPMS. </p>
<p>I've read CC a lot and it seems like these East Coast schools send a lot more people to the ivies. Maybe if you go to Stuyesevant or Exeter and get what the OP lists, then it's true you probably will get into everywhere. But there are other schools of similar quality of curriculum and student body where the results are not as good.</p>
<p>I'm not at all impressed by the number of NMFs a school has. From what I obeserve the higher the concentration of Asian students in one high school, the higher the number of NMFs. It's obvious these students practice for these tests and there is nothing wrong with that. But it's not an indication of an excellent schools or that these students are smarter than anyone else. But I won't want to argue with you, it's just my observation.</p>
<p>^^Well, I went to a magnet school where nearly everyone there had been the top person at their own high school. </p>
<p>If you want to say that we were a bunch of walking test scores, I don't know what to say. The reason why I use measurables is that they are easiest to communicate on the internet. We certainly did as well as Stuyesevant or Exeter at all the major competitions (Siemens, international math + science olympiads, academic decathalon, music competitions, etc.).</p>
<p>Typically, 1 or 2 people a year win the Marshall or the Churchill Scholarship when they graduate from a college. The Rhodes Scholarship is less often--we've had maybe 2 in the last 15 years. About 10 in my class alone (~7% of the class) ended up winning NSF graduate research fellowships, which are very exclusive.</p>
<p>And 10 years later after graduation, many of us are now faculty members at reputable universities, some of which we couldn't get into as undergrads. Others have founded successful startups. A few of us have been featured in the national news and one even made the cover of Time magazine.</p>
<p>^^I don't see your point. A typical high school has only a few. My home high school had the 4 that made it featured in the yearbook like it was some special prize.</p>
<p>And if these things are such a joke, then why is the OP saying that perfect test scores and grades are a near guarantee you will be accepted everywhere?</p>
<p>"As someone said, my school is predominantly asian =)"</p>
<p>They must have test-prepped for the PSATs, SATs and SATIIs, ARML, AMC/AIME/USAMO/MOSP, Siemens, etc...</p>
<p>Honestly, I don't get it. Is 99cents trying to say that Asians get good test scores because they test-prepped but that they aren't good students?</p>
<p>I cannot believe there are over 100 nmsf for 1 school in one year. Are you sure you don't mean national merit commended? To qualify you have to have scored in the top 1% in the nation. Very unlikely that so many from 1 school. I check first to see if its actually nmsf or commended.</p>
<p>^^well, I was referring to national merit finalists actually. I went to the state magnet school, and I suspect that truazn did too so his stat is probably correct.</p>
<p>when I was talking about my home school having 4, I meant the high school I went to before transferring to the state magnet school.</p>
<p>Your statistics do not apply. There are many, many kids with your criteria. There are many who apply the the "Holy Trinity" of HPY, and they are routinely rejected. More than are accepted. Much more than the pure statistics would predict if the the math worked out on the chances/accepted percentage. The reason for this is that there are a number of kids who are accepted who do not fall into the your categories that are going to be accepted before many if not most of your top student without a compelling "hook". Those are the URMs, athletes, development, disadvantaged, first generation to go to college, celebrity, and connected kids. And the group of kids in your group who are often accepted by all of their schools may have such a hook or something else that the school has on its wish list that year. Several very talented kids at our school were accepted to HPY and other highly selected schools. They can only go to one. I don't think your numbers are taking that into consideration. </p>
<p>You also have the tip factors. So many kids from certain areas apply to the top schools that they can dominate the class. And these schools want diversity. Again they pick those that have the extras they want, and take those where they can get that geographic diversity as well. These tip factors are not as strong as the hooks but they do affect the numbers. </p>
<p>I have seen many college process sheets from a variety of highschools. There are many top students who do not get into any of the most selective schools. I will agree that they will get into a selective school and if you start throwing in the other ivies and some other fine schools that are not edging towards a single digit accept rate, they will most likely get into one of that group. However, it is also possible not to get into any of those schools. I have seen that happen in real life (not often, admittedly) and on these CC boards as well. Even at 1%, if it happens to you or yours, it is a 100% situation for you. Why take that chance if you can select some options that may be closed to you if things do not work out in the spring? I do know kids who absolutely did not want to go to less selective schools and would rather take the year off than do so, or had some other alternative in mind so they did not have a safety. That is fine, if they know the risk and are willing to take it.</p>
<p>No, I mean Asians do sit down and practice on these tests while most non-Asian would not. Ant vs GrassHoper kind of mentality. I think that is the intention of PSAT, practice SAT. Now people practice for practice SAT. :)</p>
<p>I think one also needs to take into account of a few factors: rank and location. D high school does not rank, so it's beneficial, its' in CA not East Coast. If this state magnet school in the East Coast than mostly kids will apply to HYPM. In our area, the SAT scores dip to 2100+ level for Columbia, Cornell, Stanford, Brown. The students in this group have deeper ECs, like 4 year of one sport but nothing spectacular.</p>
<p>And what's wrong with practicing for the PSATs? I'll be doing that, even though I've already taken the SAT twice (in middle school, for a summer program...that I ended up opting out of each time because of expense...) Anyway, you can qualify for merit money at many schools with PSATs... ^.^</p>
<p>This forum scares me. It's like the only one where people actually obey the rules of grammar and type up multi paragraph proofs.</p>
<p>Can someone post a copy of that graph here? Or summarize? I'm interested in the admissions rate if you get over 2350, which is what I'll be aiming for, and the link doesn't work for me, because my computer...well, let's not get into that.</p>
<p>I agree with 99cent's comment on location. The school one attends, or perhaps the region where one is located, will determine the outcome of getting in better than a mass comparison of SAT scores across the nation. The top schools want diversity; true, they may accept up to 40 students from one specific school, but they keep in mind that they do not want all their students coming from one area. Thus, they may have "lower" expectations for applicants who excel in a weaker environment, despite those applicants having statistically lower test scores. And, for the scenario of Ivy League admits, every taken spot in the class is someone else's loss. Many highly qualified students at top high schools lose their chances to less qualified students at relatively poorer high schools.</p>
<p>I'm almost positive I know which school truazn is talking about
and i'm pretty sure there were never 137 national merit semifinalists in one year
this school (if i'm right on which one) has about 20-30 finalists this year, with maybe 30-50 more commended. certainly not 100+ finalists.</p>