<p>Cause isnt the job of an engineer lke a scientist so u dont get paid much $? or does job pay vary by the school from where u get your degree? what can s/o do w/an eng. degree besdies being an eng? (what do consultants actually do anyways?)</p>
<p>what makes engineering so hard anyways? </p>
<p>please be specific</p>
<p>If you actually want a career in engineering, I absolutely do not think an Ivy is worth it. I'd say that finance is the only career where an Ivy would be worth it.</p>
<p>Engineering at most schools is hard because there is many units, many time consuming labs, a lower average grade per class, and smarter classmates.</p>
<p>Engineer's salaries tend to be flat across colleges. If you see significant differences in salaries for engineers between colleges, more likely than not it's due to location. It's still one of the highest paying professions straight out of undergrad though.</p>
<p>Are you comparing $200k at an ivy versus $200k elsewhere? Tuition is pretty similar across most schools, unless you're considering your state university.</p>
<p>EDIT: actually, depending on your family's financial background, it may even be cheaper to attend some of the ivy's with some of their new policies.</p>
<p>Yes, but most families don't have the luxury of getting a free ride to ivies.</p>
<p>Honestly, why would you want to go to an Ivy for engineering? The only ivy with remotely noteworthy engineering is cornell, and even it is eclipsed by some cheaper publics (uc berkeley, georgia tech, university of illinois)</p>
<p>well see, my dad refused to pay for any school (the $200K that is) unless it was an ivy. my state school (UNC-CH) isnt really big on eng. and my other option is duke which costs as much as an ivy and i wanna get out of state</p>
<p>EDIT: so even if i had gotten into a public like berkeley, itd cost as much as a private</p>
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Yes, but most families don't have the luxury of getting a free ride to ivies.
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<p>I think that's a statement that needs to be unpacked.</p>
<p>Harvard offers a free tuition, room & board to all students whose parents make less than 60k. Yet the median US family income in 2007 is $58.5k. What that means is that, at least last year, the *majority<a href="that%20is,%20over%20half">/i</a> of all US families would have been able to get free rides for their kids at Harvard. </p>
<p>{Granted, it is 2008 now, but given the fact that we are probably in a recession, I rather doubt that median family income will have actually broken the 60k threshold this year). </p>
<p>Now, of course, I know what you're going to say. You're going to say that most American families won't be eligible for this free ride because their kids are just not good enough to get into Harvard in the first place, and that many (probably most) people who can actually get into Harvard happen to come from rich families (because, among other things, rich parents tend to instill a love of learning in their children and try to encourage academic success, whereas many poor parents can't or won't do that). That's obviously true, but I think it actually illustrates the central point perfectly, for after all, if you're rich, you don't really care how much Harvard costs anyway. Not many poor students are able to get into Harvard, but those that are will almost certainly find it to be one of the best deals going. Furthermore, the Harvard financial aid system is pro-rated. For example, even if your parents make $180k a year - which would put your family among the highest earning families in the nation - you would still pay only 10% (hence, only 18k) a year to go to Harvard. That is a killer deal.</p>
<p>Let me tell you a story. I know 2 guys who freely admit that they grew up in a poor neighborhood to poor parents. Yet they studied hard because they actually dreamed of attending their state flagship school (and being the first in their families to go to college), and they did get into that state school. Yet they had high school teachers who also encouraged them to apply to Harvard, and got in, and then discovered that Harvard would actually be cheaper than their state school once financial aid was factored in. That's right - cheaper. Basically, his state school wanted him to take out some loans, whereas Harvard gave him a full grant + stipend. I will always remember one of them mordantly joking that he had always dreamed of attending his state school but he couldn't afford it, so he had "no choice" but to go to Harvard. </p>
<p>Now, to be fair, that's Harvard. Not all of the Ivies are as generous. But the point is, Harvard and other top private schools are, for many people, probably cheaper than their state schools. The catch is that you have to be good enough to get in. </p>
<p>
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Honestly, why would you want to go to an Ivy for engineering? The only ivy with remotely noteworthy engineering is cornell, and even it is eclipsed by some cheaper publics (uc berkeley, georgia tech, university of illinois)
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<p>Firstly, see above regarding the true costs of the Ivies. Ivies may actually be cheaper than state schools for many people, once financial aid is factored in. The sad truth is that financial aid packages at many state schools are not particularly impressive. </p>
<p>Let me make the comparison more stark. Harvard guarantees a free ride to any whose parents make less than 60k a year. How many public schools can say the same, especially for OOS students? </p>
<p>Secondly, I question what you mean by "remotely noteworthy". Even the worst Ivy ( which I think is Brown) is still ranked somewhere in the 50's or so for engineering. I would argue that that's pretty darn good considering the fact that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of engineering programs out there.</p>
<p>"Yes, but most families don't have the luxury of getting a free ride to ivies."</p>
<p>Funny that you call it a luxury.</p>
<p>my situation is a bit idff than that. its not like we'd get 200 K in debt, but we're like a little above middle class so we can pay for it i think but itd be a strain.</p>
<p>I think if you do some demographic analysis of students at Harvard, the majority come from upper-middle class or affluent families. It would be extremely difficult for a lower-class family to give their child the education that Harvard looks for. The students that go to Harvard typically had a lot of opportunities that most do not have growing up (private tutoring for example.) I think it's fair to assume that the vast majority of students at Harvard or any other school of that caliber come from families whose income does exceed 60k.</p>
<p>oh yea, im not even 100% sure i wanna do eng. just really interested in it.</p>
<p>"...my state school (UNC-CH) isnt really big on eng. and my other option is duke which costs as much as an ivy and i wanna get out of state..."</p>
<p>NC students who want to study engineering go to NCSU. It's a great value and has strong engineering programs.</p>
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That's obviously true, but I think it actually illustrates the central point perfectly, for after all, if you're rich, you don't really care how much Harvard costs anyway.
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<p>I have to disagree here. A family that makes $200,000 certainly cares about a quarter of their income (more like 35% after taxes) of their income going down the drain, especially when they have a second kid they need to send to college in 3 years. Add that to mortgage payments on 2 houses and you're really cutting into your savings (especially when those houses are in california).</p>
<p>I didn't get a chance to apply to any private colleges. I only applied to public state schools (thank god UC Berkeley is instate for me, although it really hurts when I see my friends going to harvard, yale, stanford, and MIT) My parents couldn't afford to shell out 50k per year. My father's going to retire in a couple years, so we really need to save money.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are plenty of other families like mine that are considered "rich" but cannot afford to pay for Harvard and other top privates. I'm not complaining or anything, but I just wanted to point out that there are families that cannot afford Harvard even with their generous financial aid package.</p>
<p>Say you earned 200k/yr, how much of it would you actually spend on living? Where I live, a family of 5 could live comfortably on 50k. Not sure how high living costs are in other areas, but still, 200k? Even with two kids in college paying full tuition you'd still have a good amount left over. I don't doubt that 50k/yr for college tuition is a strain for anyone, but I still think I would rather earn a lot and receive less financial aid. Even with my school's generous financial aid, sending me to college was an enormous strain for my family. (But hey, things are starting to look up, maybe things will be better in a few years.)</p>
<p>In Los Angeles, the median house price is half a <em>mil</em>. When I lived there, I made mid-fifties and shunted over half my take-home to my landlord for an apartment way out in the boondocks. Add in health care costs, insurance, car, GASOLINE (OUCH), food, etc., and I ended up being on a fairly strict budget. I could afford stuff, but I would have been really hard-pressed to keep a family of five in clean socks and three square meals a day.</p>
<p>Cost of living is reeeediculous in many, many places.</p>
<p>I figured the only way I could stay in CA (ie: close to my family/friends) is if I lived in Bakersfield. If I couldn't do that, I'd be in Houston/Dallas/Phoenix as we speak.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have to disagree here. A family that makes $200,000 certainly cares about a quarter of their income (more like 35% after taxes) of their income going down the drain, especially when they have a second kid they need to send to college in 3 years. Add that to mortgage payments on 2 houses and you're really cutting into your savings (especially when those houses are in california).
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<p>Uh, first of all, who ever said anything about California? I think the OP made it quite clear that he's from North Carolina. </p>
<p>But secondly, and more importantly, see Myarmin's excellent response. Also, I think we should note that plenty of Harvard students come from families that make far more than 200k. And I mean FAR more. Believe me, they don't care about the costs.</p>
<p>But thirdly, I would point out that, quite simply, nobody is forcing you to stay in California. If you think the housing costs are too high there, then move. Many people have done that. Staying in California is a choice. I frankly have no sympathy for somebody who wants to stay in California and then complains about the cost of living.</p>
<p>I think the issue that comes into play is that the child doesn't make the decisions on where the family lives. I'm sure some children would choose to live in other locations if that affected where they would go to school.</p>
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[quote]
But thirdly, I would point out that, quite simply, nobody is forcing you to stay in California. If you think the housing costs are too high there, then move. Many people have done that. Staying in California is a choice. I frankly have no sympathy for somebody who wants to stay in California and then complains about the cost of living.
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</p>
<p>Please don't give them that idea... my city doesn't need anymore Californians, NYers, Bostonians, etc.. :( They move here in DROVES</p>
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Uh, first of all, who ever said anything about California? I think the OP made it quite clear that he's from North Carolina.
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<p>I was simply responding to your assertion that families that didn't qualify for financial aid at harvard don't really care about the costs. Just showing you that there is at least one that does.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
But secondly, and more importantly, see Myarmin's excellent response. Also, I think we should note that plenty of Harvard students come from families that make far more than 200k. And I mean FAR more. Believe me, they don't care about the costs.
[/QUOTE]
I do agree with Myarmin's point. I feel incredibly lucky to have been born to an upper middle class/wealthy family. Just pointing out that it does not mean that you can afford harvard. Yes you make more, but a lot of that money goes to things like mortgage and taxation. It's not like you can suddenly decide to pay less for your mortgage and live in a cheaper house.</p>
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</p>
<p>But thirdly, I would point out that, quite simply, nobody is forcing you to stay in California. If you think the housing costs are too high there, then move. Many people have done that. Staying in California is a choice. I frankly have no sympathy for somebody who wants to stay in California and then complains about the cost of living.
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The cost of living is definitely worth the beautiful environment. However, do you really expect a family to sell their house and move to another state just so they can afford Harvard?</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, i'm totally fine with my own college options and family status, and I'm fine with not being able to afford Stanford or Harvard. I'm just trying to clarify that even Harvard's financial aid policy has gaping holes in it. My question is, why stop the 10% income thing at $180,000? Seems to make a lot more sense to use it universally. That way upper middle class and boarderline wealthy families have their tuition eased somewhat.</p>
<p>The $180k income limit is not a hard stop for financial aid at Harvard. At income levels below this and above it, assets etc determine how much financial aid is awarded as has always been the case. Also just because a family income >$200k doesn't mean that they also aren't looking for good deals and concerned with costs. Besides taxes, one has to consider saving for retirement etc.</p>