First of all, Cornell’s data is for 2017, while Penn and Michigan’s reports are for 2016 graduates. That alone accounts for a 3%-4% difference in pay.
@Alexandre Your good at making stuff up and presenting it as factual.
Also failing to normalize for size, UMich has 5 times as many engineering students as Penn. that would put Penn at nearly 200 vs 149 for UMich after a simple normalization, but I did meet a UMich grad working at the Genious Bar so Apple does hire them.
Boy this thread is off the rails.
OP – recognize that the average college student changes majors three times while in school. So there’s a good chance that all the fighting over Columbia’s CS program vs UM’s CS program will be irrelevant to you. Since you may wind up studying something completely different.
If price is an object, most everyone would pick UM in-state over Columbia. If price is no object, most people would pick Columbia over UM.
According to you, price is no object. So pick the school you like better – UM and CU are going to be VERY different animals in terms of your college experience. Pick UM if you want a BIG school, close to home, great college town and rah rah football atmosphere. Pick CU if you want smaller, away from home, and urban.
And ignore all the Bravo Sierra back and forth above.
"First of all, Cornell’s data is for 2017, while Penn and Michigan’s reports are for 2016 graduates. That alone accounts for a 3%-4% difference in pay.
@Alexandre Your good at making stuff up and presenting it as factual."
I am merely stating a statistical reality. If you look at average starting salaries at Cornell, Michigan, Northwestern or Penn, there is an increase of 3%-4% annually. For example, the average Penn starting salary for the SEAS in 2012 was $69,000, 2013 was $72,000, 2014 was $75,000, in 2015 was $83,000 and in 2016 was $88,000. Since Cornell’s report is for 2017 graduates, while Michigan’s and Penn’s report is for 2016 graduates, the comparison isn’t entirely fair.
“Also failing to normalize for size, UMich has 5 times as many engineering students as Penn. that would put Penn at nearly 200 vs 149 for UMich after a simple normalization…”
Penn lists 68 CS majors out of the 177 who reported their placement and salaries from the SEAS at Penn, compared to 110 CS majors out of the 406 who reported their placement and salaries from the CoE at Michigan. So it is nowhere near five times more. Like I said, Michigan’s College of Engineering (roughly 6,500 undergraduate students) is 4 times larger than Penn’s SEAS (close to 1,700 undergraduate students, so not 5 times larger), but when it comes to CS majors, Michigan and Penn have roughly the same numbers. As I stated above, Cornell, Michigan and Northwestern have a more balanced concentration of engineering majors than Penn, which seems to focus disproportionately in CS/CE. Even if you adjust for size, Michigan places a significantly higher number of graduates as Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft than Penn.
“…but I did meet a UMich grad working at the Genious Bar so Apple does hire them.”
Hehe! You got it there! I did go to Genius Bar a couple of times, but I never had the presence of mind to ask the service reps for their resumes! 
“at Michigan, most engineering students (over 70%) major in Aerospace, Civil, Chemical, Electrical, Industrial, Mechanical etc…Those aren’t the highest paid Engineering disciplines. At Penn, roughly 50% major in CS, CE-related majors, which pay significantly more. In this regard, Cornell, Michigan and Northwestern have a more balanced concentration of majors than Penn, which seems to lean heavily on CS/CE majors.”
I agree that the mix of majors is an issue. I was only looking at Computer Science.
For a ME, EE, ChemE, choosing Michigan over an Ivy if it is cheaper seems to be more clear cut for most students. The pay range is much smaller for these majors and the related jobs.
“But even then, the advantage when it comes to placing graduates in companies like Apple, Google and Microsoft clearly favors Michigan, even over the likes of Cornell”
These 4 companies seem to be the focus of Michigan graduates. I think a lot of grads at Ivies have those options too, but may simply decide that other offers are better for them. Those 4 are not necessarily superior to other options: Facebook, AirBnB, Lyft, Bloomberg, Jane Street, D. E. Shaw, Drop Box, Palantir, etc.
I think the better job depends on many factors: the specific duties, compensation, location, etc.
“In the case of Michigan (and Northwestern), approximately 50% work in the Midwest. The cost of living in the Midwest is significantly lower than the cost of living in cities like DC, NYC and Boston, and the starting salaries will usually reflect the cost of living.”
I don’t understand this. I don’t think that many top CS jobs exist in the midwest that would be comparable to SF, NYC, Seattle, or Boston. There are probably a reasonable number of comparable positions in Chicago, and I am sure there are a few startups in Ann Arbor, but if a large number of CS students are staying in Michigan, then I would think that suggests that they are not getting similar positions.
Following rankings like they are definitive is hillarious some of you geesh lol.
Again total rip off to pay that upcharge for UG as others have said in many circles it is not even the better program.
Michigan is underrated by USNews for undergrad. In terms of academic strength across the board, Michigan might trail only Berkeley among public schools. Might. And they’re probably better than the rest.
Realizing that grad school rankings are not a proxy for undergrad quality – but if the grad program is strong, chances are the undergrad version is at least pretty good – Michigan is top-20 in almost everything and top-10 in most things. UCLA and UVA (especially UVA) can’t say that.
Columbia is a totally different environment and a great school, but if it is better than Michigan, it isn’t six-figures better.
Others have said it is cost of living that causes Michigan salaries to be lower, but that does not make sense to me because CS majors at top schools all seem to be moving to the same cities. I have no doubt that the best Michigan students can compete with anyone and can command salaries in the $110k - $150k range. However, I suspect that the average and below average Michigan students may not be so competitive and that may bring their average down. To me it appears that there is just not enough information to tell why the Michigan average is lower. Maybe you have some insight?
I didn’t see a huge difference in CS (90K for UM, 100K for Penn?) which is the major we’re discussing. So lot will depend on the respondents as well, Cornell only had 114 respondents (119 responded but five didn’t answer a lot of the questions it looked like) so that’s not a huge response rate. Maybe those that didn’t have great salaries decided not to report. Also you’re assuming that everyone is honest in these things.
Second, you have stock options that will lower the starting salary in companies, esp in tech. Grads will take a lower salary if it means 500 Google stock vesting over 4 years. Also Google I believe sets salary on how well you do in your interview, so once you get an interview, if you’re a SJSU grad (and there are a lot of those at Google and Apple), you can do better wrt compensation than an ivy leaguer if you have a superb interview.
And you’re comparing Michigan to Cornell and Penn, who have better engineering and comp sci programs than Columbia. That’s not as straightforward a comparison as UM and Columbia, where UM has the clear edge. Cornell and Penn have the two best engr/cs programs in the ivies and would be in the second set of schools I mentioned. I have actually met grads from those schools out here :-).
These 4 companies seem to be the focus of Michigan graduates. I think a lot of grads at Ivies have those options too, but may simply decide that other offers are better for them. Those 4 are not necessarily superior to other options: Facebook, AirBnB, Lyft, Bloomberg, Jane Street, D. E. Shaw, Drop Box, Palantir, etc.
I think the better job depends on many factors: the specific duties, compensation, location, etc."
Much2learn, I agree that other companies may offer more appealing alternatives, although I am not sure that those companies are hiring any fewer Michigan graduates vis-a-vis graduates from other top universities. For example, Michigan grads still do better with some of those secondary companies you mentioned, including Facebook, which hired more Michigan grads (12) than Cornell (fewer than 5) and Penn (2).
Location, as you point our, plays a major role here. That is why many graduates end up working in their respective regions. It is difficult for many graduates from schools like Michigan and Northwestern to accept jobs on the West Coast or East Cost because that would mean going far from home. Many would rather take good jobs locally, or regionally.
That being said, I do not think the pay gap is sufficient to make any assumptions or draw any conclusions. The Michigan average starting pay for a CS major is $94,000, vs $101,000 for a Penn CS major. That $7k gap could well be explained by a variety of reasons/factors, including regional pay differences and relative differences in variable pay (stock options etc…).
One more thing that sets salaries, how well you can negotiate, I wish I had known that when I just got out of school. Typically grads just of of school don’t negotiate as they either don’t think that it’s an option or they don’t want to get on a bad footing with the company. But as you go on, what you earn is dependent on how well you can negotiate.
Haven’t read since this was first asked on pg one, but why is this an issue until the admission results are out…
@theloniousmonk “And you’re comparing Michigan to Cornell and Penn, who have better engineering and comp sci programs than Columbia. That’s not as straightforward a comparison as UM and Columbia, where UM has the clear edge. Cornell and Penn have the two best engr/cs programs in the ivies and would be in the second set of schools I mentioned. I have actually met grads from those schools out here.”
I agree that Columbia may not be comparable to Cornell and Penn. I thought that was a reasonable comparison, but that makes sense.
@theloniusmonk “Second, you have stock options that will lower the starting salary in companies, esp in tech. Grads will take a lower salary if it means 500 Google stock vesting over 4 years.”
That is definitely true. This year is the first time I have seen a 21 year old undergrad with a CS offer of $100k+ salary and another $100k+ in onboarding (signing bonus + relocation + stock/options). The talented CS kids seem to be really cleaning up this year. Are you seeing that more broadly?
“Columbia is a totally different environment and a great school, but if it is better than Michigan, it isn’t six-figures better.”
OMG. Price is NOT an object for this kid!!
FYI, the Parchment cross-admit data (imperfect data but still data) says that Columbia thrashes UM on cross-admits 73% to 27%. That’s made even more impressive when you consider that some portion of those UM admits would be in-staters getting a deep discount on COA.
“Michigan is top-20 in almost everything and top-10 in most things. UCLA and UVA (especially UVA) can’t say that.”
Don’t you be messing with Mr. Jefferson’s U. Parchment says the kids like UVA (#23 ranked by student choices) more than UM (#26). And UM undergrad hasn’t beaten UVA in USNWR in like 25 years. Wa-hoo-wa!!!
Not sure what you are talking about here. OP asked the very question of whether Columbia is worth the additional $180k. Price is clearly an object. Even if the funds are there.
“Don’t you be messing with Mr. Jefferson’s U. Parchment says the kids like UVA (#23 ranked by student choices) more than UM (#26). And UM undergrad hasn’t beaten UVA in USNWR in like 25 years. Wa-hoo-wa!!!”
You need to maybe stop with parchment and usnews (and other) rankings and maybe give better advice than look at the rankings for your decision. In this case that would be a disservice, a serious one, A CS major will be a fish out of water at Columbia but will be right at home at Michigan, access to labs, research, a technology culture that’s not reflected in rankings.
Has anyone noticed that the OP was a new poster, who started this one thread/one post 4 days ago and hasn’t returned?
Forget the OP, this is serious. Someone is wrong on college confidential! (Some poster had a great profile picture adapted from XKCD about this and I’m sad it’s no longer present)
It’s a tragedy… 
Thank you for the comments everyone! NYC definitely has that extra appeal to me but the money of course is a huge drawback. I know that Michigan has the slightly higher CS rating, but I feel like there would be more opportunities in NYC? And there also is the possibility that I may change the CS major at some point. I am not a socially awkward person (like many CS people are stereotyped as) and I could see myself going more into the business/ management side.
Do most CS majors end up in grad school/ is that the smart move?
People who are “not socially awkward” don’t usually go around insulting CS majors. Just sayin’…
Many CS majors do end up in grad school, but most of them work for a few years first. Also, there is not usually a large premium for a MSE on top of a BSE, but you may learn some valuable things. MBA is possible too but there are a lot of them right now, so getting into a top program is important.