"Ivy League schools do not give merit scholarships" - but what is this? (Columbia Egleston Scholars)

Parent Cafe
1

So it is commonly said that “Ivy League schools do not give merit scholarships”. But what about the Columbia Egleston Scholars program, described at http://engineering.columbia.edu/egleston-scholars ?

There is a $10,000 stipend that can be used by scholars who do optional academic activities in the summer. In addition, those who receive financial aid have the work-study amount replaced by additional grant money, and the summer work expectation is waived for those who do optional academic activities in the summer (using the previously mentioned stipend). Note: Columbia’s NPC lists “Student Work” as $3,090, but does not split it between work-study and summer work expectation.

2

Seems like a stipend as an add-on to the normal curriculum.

3

However, there is also the replacement of financial aid work-study with additional grant, not related to the optional academic activities in the summer.

4

Other “ivys” also offer summer stipends.
Since it replaces work study contributions for those getting FA, that just means it is considered to be an a FA grant, not a scholarship.

5

It’s a supplementary program which offers funding. That’s not the same as a merit scholarship imo. Merit scholarships are extra money given based on x, y, or z factors whereas this is more like a program you’re involved in.

6

While I’m not sure whether the actual award from this program is more like a grant under financial aid or a merit scholarship, Columbia’s notification to applicants prior to Ivy Day suggests that it is intended to be more like merit. And if you look at the Columbia 2016 RD thread discussion, that appears to be the effect too. The kids are shocked and/or gleeful, honored to be recognized, and Columbia is locked in as their #1 choice.

7

I think it is a fair question. Basically, if you are full pay, you are not getting out of paying the tuition bill even if you have this. So I don’t consider it bona fide merit. But it is in that direction of being an incentive to attend.

But I have a related question. (Hopefully this is not a thread hijack, and I hope it does not offend anyone.) To the full-paying family, you could consider merit aid as a discount off of normal tuition. Now, imagine if the top 8 car dealers in a city got together and agreed to not discount car prices off of sticker price. We would call that collusion. If the ivies have agreed not to give merit aid as a group, would that be the same thing? (Did they all independently decide not to give merit aid?).

8

“The first Egleston scholars will graduate in 2014, commemorating the school’s 150th anniversary. These scholars comprise the top one percent of Columbia Engineering applicants, recognized for their extraordinary achievements and promise as an engineering and applied science student, researcher, and leader.”

Sounds like merit to me. If it’s not merit that earns it then how do you earn it? In other words if it’s not need-based or lottery then it’s merit.

9

Some endowed scholarships are given based on some defined merit, but the money only goes to those with financial need. Eg, the top kid in program X, but the parenthetical is, ‘who needs aid.’

10

So IF you have been awarded work-study as part of your financial aid package then it is replaced with a FA grant. And your summer contribution is waived IF you utilized the stipend for research activities. Which can be used for “to attend professional conferences, purchase research materials and fund room and board when conducting research during the SUMMER.” So this does not defray your costs during the regular term. Or does not pay for tuition/and or a program itself, rather room and board, a conference or materials (summer only) so a fall conference is out?.

So if you are full pay the work-study replacement doesn’t help you. And the summer stipend is there to help off-set costs as long as you do what they have designated you can do. Hmm.

Son’s financial aid packages from various ivy’s and elites also included similiar offers to this, preferential packaging. These were add-ons (amazon!) to the regular FA packages. At princeton your summer contribution can be waived if you could not find work, or were doing something else…research, coursework elsewhere since pton has no summer school, community volunteer, travel… the app for the waiver is filed during the summer. So son took summer classes elsewhere and instead of paying for his room and board they paid the tuition for the other school as part of his “preferential package”. They covered his eating club expenses, and due to his many AP courses offered a year off from pton instead would allow London School of Economics or the Science Math school in Hungary (don’t remember the correct name), all covered by his FA package. One of his “scholarships” from pton (what FA calls endowed and specific monies for chosen students) covered a summer internship in Boston with a stipend including room and board and transportation. However, these were all offered AFTER he matriculated not before.

His outside scholarships were all applied to his work-study, then any student contribution and then the COA became more elastic. Laptops, books, travel and my favorite (misc.). Yep, misc. Had its own line item. Misc. His institutional aid never dropped.

Seems like this one from Columbia is advertised and displayed more prominently in advance of students committing. Maybe they are hoping to increase yield in the specific area.

Son’s packages from Penn, Colby, Amherst, Swat, also had some “preferential packaging.” Packages really differed from Cal Tech, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Rice…

So the above looks to have some merit based within the need and some extras if you do summer work that they approve of to defer costs.

Kat

11

Well, maybe we need to drop a footnote from “Ivies don’t give merit aid.”

12

So do some of the selective, need-based only schools have “preferential packaging” to lure some students or would the same students with the exact same EFC be given the same finaid package as rule?

13

Granted I only know what my 5 kiddos have experienced but just one son alone had such varying FA packages. He applied to 34 schools and had 33 acceptances. The “meet needs only” schools packages differed as much as $15,000 per year. Another son with same EFC received different packages. So in our experience it differed within the same “type” of schools and differed from one student to another since we always had the same EFC.

So for us, having multiple acceptances with peer institutions proved advantageous. Not just to compare packages to but to see what was available and how much it could differ, good and bad. How outside scholarships were to be applied, how AP credits would be used, how outside programs would work…

Son’s most important was how easy it was to work with the FA office and helpful and respectful and THOUGHTFUL they were. Especially important with a low EFC and concerned about “fitting” in. Some were distant, others beyond helpful. Above and beyond, and not just in the spring before committing but for all 4 years. The difference was shocking and in some cases, surprisingly refreshing.

Kat
note: more specifically, since FA knew he had a low EFC the FA sent a check BEFORE school started to make sure son had money to travel to the school in the fall, provide book money ahead of class and money for other supplies (dorm things, different wardrobe…) They were concerned from the get-go about any hardship his leaving would place upon our family. And this was more than 1 school.

14

Re: #11

“Preferential packaging” (i.e. embedding merit money in a financial aid package rather than explicitly calling it a merit scholarship) can be done by any of the following:

  • Calculating the (institutional) EFC more favorably for the targeted student than for others with the same financial situation.
  • Not leaving unmet need (not applicable to Columbia).
  • Replacing student contribution with additional grants (what the Columbia Egleston Scholars program does by replacing student work-study with additional grants).
15

I agree it’s not merit aid in the way we discuss it here, which would discount tuition and R&B. A full pay family given this scholarship is still paying the same thing to Columbia for the school year, the student just gets a summer opportunity funded.

$10K is pretty nice summer funding though, most research programs and internships I’ve seen are more like $3-5K, though some come with housing or board or travel as well.

D’s school has summer funding available for students who choose unpaid internships or community service or unpaid research, as well as the ability to waive the student contribution one summer for similar programs, but this is something applied for after one is a student.

16

@katwkittens

Are those numbers typos?

17

No typos. He applied to even more med schools! His goal was to graduate with all his degrees as debt free as possible. And doing so has allowed him the freedom to pick his residency and other on-going projects without a large debt.

He knew very early on that he would be solely financially responsible for all his undergraduate and grad/professional school studies. So he wanted to emerge from his 10 years of study with little to no debt. Hard to do when trying to finance on your own undergrad and an MD/MBA.

Kat

18

I was asking the same thing. And how much need do you have if you can afford to apply to 34 colleges and have five kids who could do the same? That’s like $15000 in apps alone!

19

Hope this helps!

Since we had a very low EFC son had fee waivers for application fees, so $0 in fee apps. Same for the family with the same EFC. SATs and ACTs were also covered by fee waivers. Hence the info upthread about all the financial aid packages’ info. Since most colleges gap there was no certainity about actual packages. And as we experienced even the “meets full-need” packages varied by as much as $15,000 per year. That is where the info of “preferential packaging” came to light for us, as relevant to this thread topic.

Kat

20

@katwkittens, thank you for your explanations. It does make sense how you would get the true financial comparisons when you have the offers in hand. I am very impressed by your DS’s tenacity. My DS is in second year premed so I will need to get him excited on doing his applications in a year or two.