Ivy League Students: Are AP Scores Deal Breakers on Apps?

<p>People who were admitted into Ivy League schools: do AP test scores matter a lot? Do they make or break college apps? I am keeping up with my 4.0 GPA and participating in many extracurriculars, but my test results on major tests don't always pan out. How likely am I to get into an Ivy League school with 4's and 5's??</p>

<p>I would think they would be good because they show rigor and that you are capable of doing college level work. That and most students who apply have those kind of stats, give or take </p>

<p>But what do I know, I am not an admin officer or Ivy league student, but a freshman in HS</p>

<p>Yes, if reported. No, if not reported. If you are sending in AP scores, just report the 5s and be done with it. </p>

<p>SAT II scores are more important at most places, I believe.</p>

<p>^^ Not only more important - SAT IIs are required for most places (most schools ask for a minimum of two with a math or science being one).</p>

<p>APs are not required anywhere to my knowledge. </p>

<p>To give an example, my kids successfully applied to several top-10 schools (including Ivys) without one AP exam score. But, to do that, I assume the rest of the application needs to make up for it, since just about every other kid is submitting multiple APs.</p>

<p>Successfully applied? Or successfully admitted? Can you clarify? I think you mean the latter but its unclear.</p>

<p>Many kids go to schools that don’t offer AP classes, or may be home schooled, or go to an IB program, or are internationals. So there are others that do not have APs on their school record.</p>

<p>^^ Successfully admitted. </p>

<p>Also, a school not having APs does not stop any student. Many students just self-study and take the AP exams anyway. Taking actual AP classes is not required to take the AP exams.</p>

<p>Adding to my post above - the self-study part is why some educators and college professors do not like APs. A student can self-study, take multiple APs, place out of college classes, and not have a clue how to use the information, much less remember the information two months later. Therefore, the conclusion for some is they are too overview in approach and lack depth.</p>

<p>Yes, and yes (about students self studying and it being one of many reasons some colleges dont like to waive a course due to an AP score). But this is not news.</p>

<p>Apologies- had to dash before finishing my question. YOur child or children are obviously very accomplished to have been so successful in the admissions process. Without the AP scores, what in their history and their application process do you attribute their success? </p>

<p>@jym626 - However, many colleges do still waive courses and students (cannot blame them) like the credits and can enter a semester ahead or even as sophomores. I understand the saving money part there. </p>

<p>The APs, even if it not being able to graduate early, also allow advancing to higher classes faster, even if students were still required to stay four years. This is why some students are avoiding Dartmouth, because Dartmouth changed its AP policy and getting into a higher classes is much, much harder. </p>

<p>For your second question, let’s take GPA and required numerical stats off the table because my kids looked no different than any other Ivy kids in that vein. </p>

<p>I think they stood out because they had ECs they really enjoyed and thoroughly excelled at them. One kid only had one EC, and the other two ECs. They explained in their application how central those ECs were to whom they are and exactly why they chose them. (For the record, they did things the parents never did or would ever do) </p>

<p>I believe what made them stand out was zero ambiguity about why they chose their ECs, zero ambiguity about whom they were as people, and zero ambiguity of what and how they would contribute to the school if accepted. They told each school exactly what they were coming to do and how they would take advantage of that school’s structure and programs.</p>

<p>In a nutshell, it was absolutely clear who the colleges would be accepting. Said another way (the way that really matters), my kids made it starkly clear what the colleges would be losing if rejected - that was the key to their applications.</p>

<p>

LOL. Yup! Thats what I posted to you in the other thread!</p>

<p>Were their EC’s something that was very time consuming?</p>

<p>^^ The son with one EC spent 25 hours a week on it. And the one with two ECs, hit 30+ hours a week easy. And the key was to have the adults who directed the ECs write LORs confirming the kids’ involvement. </p>

<p>Well no wonder there was no time for studying for AP or PSAT exams! Hard to fit in family time with school and studying and an almost full work week of volunteer activities. How is that possible?</p>

<p>^^ Actually, you have it reversed. </p>

<p>The decision to nix APs and unrequired tests came first, then the focus on specific ECs followed. From the very beginning of 9th grade, we told them to not to even worry about taking AP exams, PSAT etc… </p>

<p>The central operating premise of everything we did was we nixed anything, which was NOT REQUIRED or asked for by colleges. Please note: APs are not required; hours of fake (mandatory) volunteer service are not required; and a plethora of ECs are not required. </p>

<p>My kids did only the testing and activities, which were REQUIRED to properly and fully complete college applications: SAT, SAT Subject Tests, and their chosen ECs.</p>

<p>I put it this way - if my kids spent half the time on ECs and just slept, they still would not have done any unrequired testing or activities. In fact, I think sleep at that point, as teenagers, would be more valuable. The key word here is UNREQUIRED. APs and whole bunch of stuff students do are totally unrequired.</p>

<p>Our family motto was spend the time on stuff you like and waste none on unrequired stuff. It was no more complicated than following that basic rule. It was not as radical as people think it is; it was just following the college application to the absolute letter. The applications asked for nothing we did not do, so my kids’ application were as complete as the college expected. Now, if every there student is doing more than the colleges expect that is not our issue. </p>

<p>Maybe we got lucky, but I doubt it - our kids applied to colleges in different years with the same result at different colleges. </p>

<p>I KNOW they are not required. But for many students they are an important part of their curriculum, and as we have discussed elsewhere, most school districts, including our s’s’ private HS, REQUIRE students taking AP classes to take the exam. And the school expected (don’t know if it was a “requirement”) the students to take the PSAT, which turned into NMF $$ for us.</p>

<p>I guess we found time to balance family time, extracurriculars (both my s’s were selected in their senior yr of HS to receive a regional award for their extensive , multi year community service work (the only sibs ever to be selected for this award), vacations, studying, AP exams, PSAT and SAT exams, etc. Worked for us.</p>

<p>^^ We just were not interested in doing those extra activities, and the NMF stuff was of no concern either. That is the part we found great; we did what we wanted and just blew off the not required activities, and it had no negative effect. Like you, we had an enjoyable blast with the path we took, and the kids got what they wanted out of it. Would not change a thing. </p>

<p>@abcdef456 - Sorry to kind of hijack the thread a bit. My initial advice holds - submit your AP scores, which are 5s and be done with it. For second tier schools, the 4s might also be fine. But top-10 schools and Ivys, 5s are the way to go. Good luck.</p>

<p>Where we are, the AP exams were not considered “extra activities”. Thats the difference. All the credits they got for their 5’s on their exams helped them with priority registration as they were considered a year ahead of their class placement. They appreciated that.</p>

<p>And sure, NMF scholarship $ is not an issue for the Ivys, but we are not an “ivy or bust” family. Older s chose a different top 20 school, and younger s chose a full tuition scholarship at a different tier 1 so as to save the $ for planned professional school. He changed his mind during college and didnt pursue that professional school, so the $$ earmarked for education is in his investment account and he is happily heading across country to a new job at a top well known company. Worked all the way around.</p>

<p>I was talking extra activities reference the colleges, not the school district. To the colleges, they are extra activities. We paid little mind to what our school district was doing and only focused on what the colleges said they wanted. </p>

<p>My kids (and we a few times) talked directly to the admissions officers whenever there was a clear unknown. It also was instructive how the answers from the colleges were different from what the area GCs said. The first couple times that happened was nothing short of interesting. It was not that the GC was wrong; just what the GC recommended was, according to the colleges, fine to do if one wants, but unnecessary.</p>

<p>Either way works really (your path, our path, or some middle ground). The key is to make sure the way chosen is well-explained and represented in the application. </p>

<p>Again, when our kids took AP classes they were required to take the exam. Doesnt matter what the colleges think. We could not consider them irrelevant or unnecessary. Am guessing your students did all required coursework. This would be considered that at our school.</p>