<p>side question. I have been in US for over 20 years now and I have yet to see a Harvard or another top med school doctor. Where do they practice? Are they do mostly private and not in the HMO?</p>
<p>They practice where anyone else practices.<br>
BTW, medical school and residencies are incredible levelers. </p>
<p>If you have one person who goes to State U med school and another who goes to Harvard med school, and they both wind up in the same residency program (which is absolutely how it works -- all med schools and all residencies are a mix of people from all different "prestige" backgrounds) ...
Assuming they've both completed the residency requirements, there is no reason that the Harvard med school grad would necessarily be a better doctor. The med school and residency experiences are very leveling. </p>
<p>You have to laugh at the people who are all so concerned about which Ivy they should go to for premed. They haven't a clue that at every single med school in the country, the class is made up of people from Ivies and other top schools, state schools, and even non-prestigious state schools. It jsut doesn't matter in medicine all that much, unless you're going into academia.</p>
<p>Unless you've been really sick, you would probably only see a primary care provider--a Family practice doc or an internist. I am guessing, but I bet Harvard MD's are disproportionately involved in research and in specialties.</p>
<p>Without the corresponding data point: students who were accepted at an Ivy but attended elsewhere, the whole study is a shining example of confusing correlation with causation. </p>
<p>An earlier study that compared Ivy grads with a group who was accepted at an Ivy and did not attend showed no difference in outcomes after several years. </p>
<p>Ivy students self select for confidence and leadership ability--which is what enables them to leverage connections and go after jobs in higher paying fields.</p>
<p>"Unless you've been really sick, you would probably only see a primary care provider--a Family practice doc or an internist. I am guessing, but I bet Harvard MD's are disproportionately involved in research and in specialties."</p>
<p>And I'm saying, if you control for specialties (the Harvard med grad who becomes an OB vs the State U med grad who becomes an OB), and take research / aacademia out of the equation, and assuming you control for region of the country, there is zero reason to think that one will make more. Medicine doesn't work that way. With law, I think there's a much bigger differentiator.</p>
<p>Well my insurance companies negotiates prices for certain procedures from docs and hospitals. They don't really care if the doc is from Harvard or Drake. They are not going to pay any more for the care regardless of the school name on the diploma.</p>
<p>So, bottom line, the Ivy/top school UG degree might make a difference in certain occupations: IB - consulting. Law - no- it depends on the law school you attend.<br>
So what's a top degree good for? Great for bragging rights. Might open some doors. Hard to quantify that type of thing other than to say it might give you an edge when you're starting out or perhaps out of work. I don't believe the stats though...you really have to compare apples to apples to have a valid case (top students at non-prestigious colleges to Ivy kids).</p>
<p>toneranger,
You're right on target, but I'd like to add a few lines for emphasis. </p>
<p>For fields like IB or consulting, the undergrad school may put you in a better initial position to get one of these highly sought after first jobs, but where the rubber really meets the road in these industries is for those coming out of graduate school. One can get a job on Wall Street or even with some of the MC firms right out of college coming from a lower ranked school (likely harder, but hardly unusual). But hiring at the associate or VP levels is almost always going to require a degree from a Top 20 MBA or Top 15 Law school. </p>
<p>As for value vs State U or somewhere else, the elite college degree may have some personal psychic value (extent depends on the individual) and, probably more importantly, the universe of connections (direct and indirect) that affiliation with ABC Elite College affords.</p>
<p>"Well my insurance companies negotiates prices for certain procedures from docs and hospitals. They don't really care if the doc is from Harvard or Drake. They are not going to pay any more for the care regardless of the school name on the diploma."</p>
<p>Exactly. Medicine is different from some of the other occupations in which the status of the place you go has more bearing. The money you make in medicine is a function of your specialty (and anyone can choose any specialty; it's not as though neurosurgery residencies are only open to Harvard grads and not State U grads) and how well you manage your own business if you're in private practice. While I think elite u's are good things and wanting to strive for the best is a good thing, it just doesn't make a big <em>pay</em> difference in medicine, at all. And it doesn't really make a quality difference, either, since the Harvard Med grad and the State U Med grad learn exactly the same things in their residencies.</p>
<p>No surprise.... There are a lot of connections associated with Ivies, especially since they're some of the oldest establishments in the nation.</p>
<p>One angle not covered by this survey is what grades the kids needed to get their jobs. I used to work for a large law firm that paid all new attorneys the same -- but the firm hired only the top 1% to 2% class-ranked grads from the State U law school, yet hired kids from the bottom of the Harvard and Yale law schools. Kids with grades not at the top of the State U didn't even get an interview....</p>
<p>^ Where you go to law school matters, but it's not a public-private thing. Three of the top 10 law schools (well, 3 of the top 11 as there's a 3-way tie for 9th) and 7 of the top 25 are publics. Yes, employers will go a little further deeper into the class at Yale and Harvard than at Berkeley (#6, public) or U Chicago (#7, private), but at this level most graduates of all these schools have terrific opportunities to land high-paying jobs if that's what they're after. (Many aren't). But you don't need to go to an Ivy as an undergrad to get into one of these schools; mostly you just need to do really, really well at a respectable school and nail your LSAT.</p>
<p>
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But hiring at the associate or VP levels is almost always going to require a degree from a Top 20 MBA or Top 15 Law school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Mostly yes, but there are many kids coming out of Wharton, HYPS who are at VP level without the graduate degree and they are only 4-5 years out of college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Mostly yes, but there are many kids coming out of Wharton, HYPS who are at VP level without the graduate degree and they are only 4-5 years out of college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I wouldn't call it many at all. During my tenure at the BB I worked, the earliest anyone was becoming a VP was 6 years out of UG and that was the true superstars.</p>
<p>This is from a couple of years ago, but it looks like Fortune 500 CEO's are more likely to be from Univ. of Wisconsin, Univ. of Texas, and UNC as they are from most of the Ivy League, with the exception of Harvard, Princeton & Yale where they have about the same placement. Further, it looks like the UG degree held by the largest percentage is in engineering, not business.</p>
<p>^ idad - I've seen that study and what is missing is the fact that there are far, far fewer Ivy grads compared to grads of schools like UW. The Ivy grads are very much over-represented in the ranks of business leaders when their scarcity is considered.</p>
<p>Ah, the joys of statistics...</p>
<p>mammall: But I doubt there are fewer with similar statistics, perhaps indeed the opposite. If so, then a student who qualifies for an Ivy would be just a well off going to UWisconsin as to Harvard if being a CEO at a Fortune 500 is the goal. And further, their major should be engineering!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't call it many at all. During my tenure at the BB I worked, the earliest anyone was becoming a VP was 6 years out of UG and that was the true superstars.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Gellino, I don't know where you worked, but that hasn't been the experience of many people I know and they are represented in many BB banks. A relative knows of at least 15, and that's just in his graduating class. He is 25 years old. From your post that you stated "my tenure", I would assume that you are out of that industry now.</p>
<p>These are kids who were recruited into Ibanking straight out of undergrad and are still there without needing to go back for their MBA. There are more of them than you think, or during your tenure.</p>
<p>I think that everyone can find something to cheer their favorite schools. Apparently, Dartmouth has produced quite a few high profile business leaders in recently years, from the US Treasure Secretary, to the CEOs of GE, IBM, AT&T, Ebay, 2 US Labor Secretaries, you name it.</p>
<p>"Mostly yes, but there are many kids coming out of Wharton, HYPS who are at VP level without the graduate degree and they are only 4-5 years out of college."</p>
<p>cbreeze,
Dartmouth, Williams, and Duke belong on that list of yours as well.</p>