<p>I have had mail dumped on me for being a NMC/NASF offering scholarships (SI=210, state cutoff=215). I know of no person that has ever achieved both NASF and NMSF status, and only one (besides me) who held NMC/NASF status. (She graduated last year and is currently a Harvard freshman.)</p>
<p>Reading this thread is depressing.
Knowing that racisms exists within the college admissions process breaks a parents heart (AA, reverse AA, etc.). We instill virtues upon our children that help them strive to be the best they can, only to have doors shut in their faces, do to policy quotas that are - at best - unfair. The 3 scoring policies (URM, rev URM, all the rest) administered by most univesties makes me both mad and sad for my children. I don't know how to console my child when she begins to recieve the rejection letters. She will compare herself to many of the applicants and come to the bitter conclusion that life is not fair.
I can accept atheletic admittance being on a different scale, but it is hard to understand this concept when it pertains to the rest of the university population.<br>
sorry to vent, but like i said, very depressing thread.</p>
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I don't know how to console my child when she begins to recieve the rejection letters.
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</p>
<p>One way to avoid that is to spend some time putting together a college list of schools where admission is more likely.</p>
<p>I've never understood the philosophy behind putting together a list of colleges for rejection letters. </p>
<p>IMO, a good list should have 6 of 8 schools where an acceptance letter is a likely prospect. The reaches should be schools where you at least have a fighting chance (maybe 50%/50% odds based on the particular application).</p>
<p>interestedded,
how do you prevent a valedictorian, very high SAT, passionate EC's, accomplished musican, ... from applying to top schools.
She's earned the right.
She will compare here resume/stats to URM's that are significantly lower, then question the system.
can i blame her?</p>
<p>leftylafty, if you haven't already done so, please read andi's thread (your D too, preferably). Perhaps one shouldn't "prevent" someone from applying to reaches they like, but a few good financially-viable safeties are a necessity.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=192395%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=192395</a></p>
<p>That said, the best she can do is present a strong application. Plenty of applicants with good but not exceptional stats get into great colleges, and fretting about chances doesn't do anything except increase anxiety. I agree with interesteddad's point about having likely acceptances, but I think a likely reject wouldn't be entirely out of place. I've seen a lot of students get into all of their colleges and wonder if maybe they should have aimed a little higher.</p>
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The reaches should be schools where you at least have a fighting chance (maybe 50%/50% odds based on the particular application).
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</p>
<p>Does anyone have 50/50 odds at HYPMS? I figure at best my son has a 1 in 5 chance at his top three choices, luckily the other schools he's applying to have much better odds.</p>
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Does anyone have 50/50 odds at HYPMS?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure. Heck, I bet that Yo Yo Ma and Natalie Portman had better than 50/50 odds at Harvard!</p>
<p>Even for a "regular" applicant: Valedictorian (a real val, not this fake stuff with 24 vals) at a feeder school with an interesting, unique extracurricular passion (i.e. not newpaper editor, student council, etc.) brought to life in the essays and recommendations.</p>
<p>The mistake people make in trying to assess their odds is failing to understand how vital it is to stand out from pack in some way. The stats won't do it if the application is the same old same old.</p>
<p>BTW, I thought Curmudgeon's daughter had a legtimate 50/50 or better shot at Yale. The rancher angle made for an interesting applicant. There have been many more applicants at CC who easily had legitimate odds in their favor. The extreme high-level aptitude for math shown by Marite's son. And so forth.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She's earned the right.
She will compare here resume/stats to URM's that are significantly lower, then question the system.
can i blame her?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one "earns" the right as anyone with the application fee or a fee waiver can apply to any school which is all any one can do. After that, the process simply plays itseld and admissions officers fill a class based on their institutional need. There will be students of all races who are "more accomplished" than you daughter who will be admitted and there will bew some who will be denied. The will also be students who are "less accomplished" than you daughter who will be admitted. </p>
<p>At schools where the admissions rates are in the single digits the reality is at HYP more than 90% of the students who apply will be denied and those that don't apply have a 100% chance of not being admitted.</p>
<p>I agree with warbles, about reading the story of andi's son then help your daughter put together a balanced list of schools including a sure bet or saftey where if thing happen not to go her way she will be happy to attend. What you can also do is become more informed about the admissions process as it pertains to elite college admissions. You will find that the #'s (gpa and SAT scores) are only one part of the equation.</p>
<p>Other things I would suggest reading the following:</p>
<p>the Recipe for Success that discusses trying to create a class at Williams </p>
<p><a href="http://www.williams.edu/alumni/alumnireview/fall05/recipe.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/alumni/alumnireview/fall05/recipe.pdf</a> </p>
<p>My dinner with an admissions officer:</p>
<p>Just how hard college admissions can be:</p>
<p>Who ever has the most APs wins</p>
<p>in this thread take note of post # 49 by Ben Jones who is on the admissions staff at MIT where he states: </p>
<p>*First, the MIT adcom perspective.</p>
<p>I don't know the exact numbers; I couldn't tell you even if I thought it would be helpful. Numbers mean nothing to us because ~70% of our applicant pool is qualified in those terms.</p>
<p>Based on the thousands of apps I saw last year both in selection committee and as a reader, I can tell you that the average # of AP's for admitted kids was 5 or 6 (that's total for all 4 years of HS - i.e. 1-2 per year if evenly distributed). Many admits (most likely the majority) had no college classes. The most common AP's taken were in math and science (no surprise, it's MIT). The overwhelming majority got 4's and 5's on all tests.</p>
<p>I'll pause here to add that I frequently saw kids with perfect SAT scores and perfect grades and a gazillion AP classes get rejected. Why? Because often these kids knew how to grind, but brought nothing else to the table. And that's not who we're looking for at MIT. We admit kids who show genuine passion. Sure AP's can be one of many passion indicators - but I emphasize one of many.</p>
<p>When I was on the road, kids asked me repeatedly whether or not they should take a given AP class.</p>
<p>"Well," I'd respond, "would you be taking it because you genuinely want to, or simply because you think it will get you into college?"</p>
<p>Sometimes they didn't know the difference, which is a tragedy that deserves its own thread. But I digress.</p>
<p>And this is where you all start saying that adcoms are talking out of both sides of our mouths: we encourage kids to follow their hearts in the choices they make, and then as adcoms we want to see that they've taken "the most challenging courseload."</p>
<p>To which I say: guys, I work for MIT! If a kid doesn't want to be taking a challenging courseload in high school, that kid is certainly not going to be happy here.</p>
<p>Quite simply, the students who are happiest here are those who thrive on challenge. Most of our admits have taken AP math and science because they would have been bored silly in the regular classes. Indeed, they genuinely wanted to take those classes. They don't look at MIT as the prize; they look at MIT as the logical next step. It's an important distinction.</p>
<p>That said, AP's are not the only way to demonstrate that one is passionate and likes challenge. Read Anthony's story for an example:</p>
<p>*When faced with the choice, we will always choose "the right match" over numbers. We're not lying when we say that. You've heard me beat that sentiment to death in other threads, so I won't do so here.</p>
<p>(*Match = mission, collaborative spirit, hands-on, balance, character, and passion, among others.)</p>
<p>But the reality is that when you have 10,500+ applications for ~1000 spots and 70% of the pool has great numbers, your pool is going to have plenty of kids who have the passion and the match and the scores/grades/AP's. So we admit those kids - what other choice do we have?**</p>
<p>But then (understandably) you guys say "Look! You need X, Y, and Z to get into MIT!" To clarify, we don't require those things; many of our admits just happen to have them. And, I might add, for the right reasons.</p>
<p>This brings me to the more important part, where we toss my affiliation with MIT out the window and I give you my thoughts as a parent.</p>
<p>**There is only one coin. There are many sides to the coin, but there is only one coin. And you can flip it however you like.</p>
<p>So when a parent says to me, "Why does HYPSM put so much emphasis on AP's?" I reply "Why do you put so much emphasis on HYPSM?" When a parent says "My kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by how many AP's he/she has taken" I say "...and your kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by whether or not he/she goes to HYPSM." I could go on and on.</p>
<p>There are literally hundreds of amazing colleges and universities out there (some of which actually admit kids with no AP's!). Many of them would actually be better matches for your child. Many of them would provide your child with a better education. Most importantly, many of them would ultimately give your child a greater sense of happiness and fulfillment. The right match will do that.</p>
<p>And the match goes both ways. We try to determine if your kid is a good match for MIT. Your kid should be trying to determine which school is the best match for him/her. As a parent, what are you doing to help him/her figure that out?</p>
<p>Here's a hint: if you're spending time obsessing that a lack of AP's is going to keep your kid out of Stanford, you're missing the point.**</p>
<p>Make sure your kids are choosing their schools for the right reasons. Name, status, "brand" - these are not the right reasons. Let your kids be kids. Let them follow their hearts. Encourage them to have a present, not just a future. Don't let them define themselves by which colleges accept them - and don't let them define themselves by doing things only to get into certain colleges.</p>
<p>The machine is fed from all sides. USNWR, the media in general, the GC's, the parents, the colleges and universities, the high-priced independent counselors, the test prep people...</p>
<p>-B *</p>
<p>"I don't know how to console my child when she begins to recieve the rejection letters. She will compare herself to many of the applicants and come to the bitter conclusion that life is not fair."</p>
<p>If that's her conclusion, it's a good one. The sooner a person learns that life isn't fair, the sooner a person will avoid much unhappiness and disappointment.</p>
<p>
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I can accept atheletic admittance being on a different scale, but it is hard to understand this concept when it pertains to the rest of the university population.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why is that? What is special about atheletics?</p>
<p>As many have noted above, grades and test scores put one in the running, beyond that all the other factors come in to play. But I particularly like Jones's "don't look at MIT as the prize"</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sure. Heck, I bet that Yo Yo Ma and Natalie Portman had better than 50/50 odds at Harvard!</p>
<p>Even for a "regular" applicant: Valedictorian (a real val, not this fake stuff with 24 vals) at a feeder school with an interesting, unique extracurricular passion (i.e. not newpaper editor, student council, etc.) brought to life in the essays and recommendations.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I figured you'd say that - and the truth is at our high school - if our scattergrams are anything to judge by - the the top two or three kids in the class have close to a 100% chance of getting in. (Of course most of these kids are outstanding in other ways.)</p>
<p>Mathmom,
your words bring comfort, thank you.</p>
<p>All you can do is present yourself in the best possible way and then apply. Let the chips fall where they may. As long as you have a good school (reaches/matches/safeties) selection, you will most likely be assured of entering a fine university. It is just too easy to fall victim to living through my children.</p>
<p>Most of us all grew up in a time of discrimination, some experienced it far worse than others. At least times are far better now than they were before. What we all can agree on, is that we do not wish this upon any of our children. But the truth is - discrimination will always exist.
As to affirmative action, my jury is still out on that. It has its merits, but it also carries deficiencies. Its like a double edge sword.</p>
<p>I agree that admissions for college should not be based upon race but it should be until the future. </p>
<p>The real problem is to eliminate the inequalties before students go to college. While normal high schools focus on college preparation. Inner city schools are just worried about graduating students.</p>