<p>This is absolutely disgusting</p>
<p>I'm sure the West Point alumni crew is on top of the situation</p>
<p>JEB Stuart's West Point Class Ring, gold with a green stone depicting the West Point insignia. This ring was given to him by his mother and father when he graduated in 1854.</p>
<p>This ring belongs in the ring case at West Point. I emailed the address given on the auction page and said as much. I would encourage everyone to do the same. These rings ought to be returned to the academy if they are not remaining with the family. Probably not much chance of convincing the seller to give up a big "payday", but its probably worth the effort to try. Just click on the "ask seller a question" link to make your comment.</p>
<p>Talk about a piece of history! :eek:</p>
<p>Definitely belongs back at the Point, even if it had once belonged to John Smith.</p>
<p>There is actually a ring recovery program begun by several grads who look for just this sort of thing. Sometimes they can't afford the price and have to let it go, but if they can they purchase the rings. They are a non-profit group who take donations. You can find the information here:</p>
<p><a href="mailto:usmarings@west-point.org">usmarings@west-point.org</a> </p>
<pre><code> or
</code></pre>
<p>West Point Ring Recovery Program
William P. O'Neill
26 Canton Street
North Easton, MA 02356-1345</p>
<p>Donations are needed to help this program continue to bring these rings home.</p>
<p>General J.E.B. Stuart was a legendary, feared figure and is considered one of the greatest cavalry commanders of all time.</p>
<p>West Point grad, Virginian, Confederate general, Robert E. Lee's eyes and ears</p>
<p>He entered the Class of 1854 at the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York. </p>
<p>Robert E. Lee was Commandant of the Academy at that time.</p>
<p>He was killed in May 1864 during the Overland Campaign, at the Battle of Yellow Tavern at age 31.</p>
<p>The ring should be given back to West Point.</p>
<p>I'm still trying to figure out the outrage here. Looking at the auction it looks like the ring was given/sold to this company from the family of J.E.B Stuart. Sorry guys, free market economy here. Yes, it is a piece of history that would be great for West Point to have, but it doesn't appear the company got it through 'illicit' avenues. </p>
<p>Now if the ring was simply lost by someone and then 'found' by this company or it was stolen then that is a different story.</p>
<p>Sorry, don't see the outrage, but agree that it would be a great piece of history for West Point to own.</p>
<p>The open market should have its limitations. This is no different than saying I should be able to buy the Great Sphinx and relocate it to Peoria.</p>
<p>Historic artifacts deserve to be treated with some dignity. I don't consider eBay to be such a venue. It's far too easy for it to be lost to history. </p>
<p>If the sellers had any real sense of responsibility, they would contact the USMA Museum and ask them if they'd like to buy it, and to arrange terms.</p>
<p>I'm all for the free market, but every now and then comes an exception. This is one of them. Sadly, however, this will cause not even the slightest ripple in the pop culture. If they were auctioning the bumper of the car Princess Diana died in, however, all hell would break loose. Go figure.</p>
<p>Having some knowledge of the art/antiques business it is not apparent from the info on the auction site that the family has given or sold the ring or even who the seller really is. "Provenance" can take the form of many things that may or may not be seen as "permission" by the family to sell the ring. No one is saying that the ring is being sold illegally... only that this particular piece of history is more than just some painting or gun picked up off the battlefield. West Point tradition holds that the ring may be retained by the family of a deceased graduate or returned voluntarily to the academy. While obviously no one is thinking this is some legally enforceable law, it should be noted that many family members may not even be aware of the tradition, or the ring is so old that the "chain of custody" is blurred. A poster referred to the Ring Recovery Program above.
My family donated the class ring of my GG Grandfather (USMA 1862, with only 28 graduates) this past summer. Our greatest fear was that eventually the ring would get into the hands of someone (family or not) who would not know its significance and would either sell it or lose it. Rings from this era did not have the words "USMA" or "West Point" on them unless they were inscribed by the owner. The safest and most meaningful location for these pieces of West Point and US history is at the academy. Besides the West Point Cemetary and West Point itself, these rings are the most personal evidence of the real men and women "Long Grey Line".</p>
<p>Sorry Z, have to disagree with you on this one. The sphinx was never owned by a particular person, but rather a civilization, that would be a difference that I would argue in your point. </p>
<p>This piece of "history" was at one time owned by a single person, and is more that person's history than that of West Point. I understand the tradition of returning rings to the Academy, but I think the outrage should be directed at the family for allowing the Ring to end up at an auctioneer rather than the auctioneer. They are merely providing a 'good' to an interested 'buyer'. </p>
<p>If y'all are worried about lost history then I would argue no private collector should have any piece of 'history'.</p>
<p>for what it's worth, which is equivalent to what you paid for it, my opinion coincides w/ KP. Unless WP awards the ring at no cost--similar to an Oscar--they certainly have no claim on teh ring. And I would damn well want my offspring to benefit however they thought they should, including selling it, from a ring that I bought. [Heck I think I should be able to sell the Oscar if I ever win one.]</p>
<p>Interesting how free marketeers--similar to small government believers--espouse such beliefs . . . except when their beliefs collide with the results of no regulation. I heard, for example, one conservative radio commentator stating that he agreed with the notion that smoking should be banned in cars that are carrying small children. So much for limited government.</p>
<p>In any event, like so much of what we own . . .its just a piece of metal. No matter how much one might want to attched meaning to it, unless you are a relative of JEB, the ring itself is meaningless.</p>
<p>well, looking into the auction further, it appears a number of JEB Stuart artifacts are up for bid--binioculars, pocket watch, spurs, etc---everything but his long johns. Probably at least ought to be in a JEB Stuart Museum--oh well---</p>
<p>I draw the line at the ring---</p>
<p>
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No matter how much one might want to attched meaning to it, unless you are a relative of JEB, the ring itself is meaningless.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wrong. It is NOT meaningless. It is a very unique item of great significance to a very notable figure in American History (or at least among those who have studied it). That makes it much more than meaningless.</p>
<p>There are some things that belong in a museum, among those that appreciate what they are and what they represent. Hell, seeing as the government is so in debt, let's just auction off the Founding Documents and pay off the bills. Let's empty the Smithsonian. Let's cut down the precious forests we are always told are a national treasure and make money off the timber. After all, they're just THINGS, right?</p>
<p>The argument of "So much for limited government" is one of pure hyperbole. No one believes in anarchy. We simply differ on how far government should intrude. Nowhere here has anyone suggested the government be involved. We were simply appealing to a simple sense of decency. Just goes to show what that gets you in this country these days. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>A few months ago some vermin in Florida put a USNA ring he had found up on eBay. The mobilization was instant, and in that case the Alumni were able to get the ring back. </p>
<p>I agree with shogun: I draw the line at the ring. These things MEAN something. But hey, what do I know? I only WEAR one.</p>
<p>My will will clearly state that my ring is to be be either a) kept by my children and their children in perpetuity, or b) returned to the Academy. Since I intend to be cremated, having it buried with me isn't going to be a viable option.</p>
<p>And your great-grandchildren, like it or not, will most likely pick it up and go "who the heck was this ol' guy? Think we can sell the ring for any cash to buy baby food?" You will have no control over the matter.</p>
<p>Then it goes to the Academy. I didn't sweat for five years for it to be sold for baby food.</p>
<p>As I said, you have little or no control over the matter. Rings do not come with a title. There is virtually no way to enforce this clause in your will short of your leaving a inheritance [most likely one that needs to be substantial] that only passes to the ultimate owner when the ring is donated to USNA.<br>
Not to mention the Rule Against Perpetuities, which any attorney has mostly forgotten but has to remember from time to time.
So . . . I suppose the question is: How much is it worth to you to ensure that your ring is returned to the Academy? As usual, it always gets back to th emoney, as it has for the current owner of the ring. [Your sweat notwithstanding.]</p>
<p>It will be taken care of. The lawyers will write the documents properly and the people tasked with executing them will be trustworthy.</p>
<p>If they fail me, I'll come back and haunt them mercilessly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If they fail me, I'll come back and haunt them mercilessly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I got a nice chuckle out of this one.</p>
<p>I'd make a mean poltergeist.</p>
<p>Bad-tempered, loud, an R. Lee Ermey fan, and bilingual! </p>
<p>There would be no escape! :D</p>