jefferson scholar 2009

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>My son will be a highschool senior this september. he is attending a magnet school in NJ whch is rated as nation's 7th best public highschool in terms of academic excellence.</p>

<p>his school is eligible to nominate a jefferson scholar. His school has less than 60 kids per year, and there is a good chance that he will get the nomination. Here are the facts, and can you share your thoughts on whether he has a fighting chance to be a jefferson scholar.</p>

<p>(1) in his school, about 30 % of the kids get cornell admission: that's the level at that school. Given that, my son will probably get into some kind of ivy or equivalent school, if not Harvard, princeton, Yale, etc.</p>

<p>(2) his SAT math/reasoning/writing score is perfect 2400</p>

<p>(3) he took on SAT II test, again 800. He is planning to take two more, I think it's very likely that he will get 800s there also.</p>

<p>(4) his grades are very good, but not the first in his class. Oh, by the way, this school does not rank order the kids since they believe that in that school everybody is good, and it's meaningless to put rank number down.</p>

<p>(5) he is very well liked by his peers and teachers. his guidance councelor once mentioned to me that when he walks into the faculty lounge, the whole room lights up. he also comes across extremely well in interviews as he is very well mannered, thoughtful, and confident/relaxed without looking arrogant and cockly.</p>

<p>(6) He is extremely well read: a very voracious reader of historical and current affairs in diverse subject matters in natural and social science and word affairs.</p>

<p>(7) he is a world traveler: visited about 45 countries thus far. Comes frome a pretty unusual ethnic/national background (a crazy and unusal combination of my and my husband's backgrounds: suffice it to say that we are both first generation immigrants from opposite ends of the world).</p>

<p>(8) all in all, he is a natural talent: as we have never put any pressure on him to "mold" him in anyway.</p>

<p>(9) he plans to double major in physics and economics.</p>

<p>So, you say, what's the problem???</p>

<p>Well, the problem is, his portoflio in the extra curricular stuff is rather weak: not non-existent, but nothing like thousands of hours logged in, and all sorts of national awards, etc: since he did not enter any of these competitions.</p>

<p>Does not mean that he is a lazy bum. He simply does not want to bend backward to "manufacture" a model college application portfolio. What he is interested in, he focuese like no one else. He taught himself economics theories to the degree that he can handle graduate level work. he can probably give you one of the best historical analyses on causes and aftermaths of the Great Depression. one hell of a debator on wide range of intellectual subject matters. </p>

<p>However, none of these kinds of "extra curricular" activities fit the format that gives him easily identifiable and externally verifiable check mark to be included with a smiley face on the application package. </p>

<p>He is passionate about Obama's campaign, so he started to volunteer recently. He will carry it forward till the election time. he also got an internship that will start in the fall in local fund manager's office.</p>

<p>(I keet hearing from everybody how important the "leadership" and "citizenship" are and how so critical the various extra curricular portfolio is. I guess this is where he may have a problem.</p>

<p>Do you have any thoughts on whether he has a fighting chance, and what he can do with the verly limited time left to better his odds? </p>

<p>By the way, his guidance councelor tells me that she sees him as a natural leader in many things he does at school, not because of any fancy titles, but because of the way he subtly and adroitly manages the crowds and leads them in a way that commands respect and shows results. all good words, but again, we don't have this easy "external validation" check mark that can be conveniently put on the application package. </p>

<p>As a side bar input, I don't think my son will attend UVA unless it comes with a Jefferson scholarship, since we all prefer that he goes to a smaller private school with a focused attention and more intimate interaction between the students and faculty. jefferson scholarship is attractive since it give that "small school" individual attention in a very dymanic and diverse environment. </p>

<p>any case of jefferson scholar without an herculean portfolio of extra curricular resume?</p>

<p>I'ts a long post, and I thank you all for reading it.</p>

2

<p>Certainly he will be a good candidate and you should lobby for a nomination. After that, it is a bit of a crap shoot as to who else is nominated and what they are looking for. Let's face it, all of the finalists are probably at a similar level in some way. Few will have perfect SATs, but my impression is that the SAT is the least important factor for the Jeff Scholars. Many of them will have perfect grades (even at very competitive schools) and almost all will have a deep history of service, not just a lot of small stuff. </p>

<p>So be encouraged and enjoy the process. You seem a little keyed up about it and I would encourage you to relax and let it happen. He has a great resume and will certainly be admitted to many fine schools. I would not be quite so optimistic about the big name Ivies (they turn down 2400s quite frequently) but he will go someplace incredible.</p>

3

<p>If he does not like UVa unless he gets a Jeff scholar, then I think he is better off trying to get a full scholarship to a school where he thinks he will fit in. Even with a Jeff scholar, he may not get the individual attention equivalent to a small private college. Plus, I think he is a long shot for Jeff Scholar if his extra curriculum/service/leadership is somewhat below his peers.</p>

4

<p>My friend just won a jeff. He explained to me that the whole thing is a crapshoot because you never know who is going to advance at each level. I know other kids who were not nominated who had even higher SAT's than he did. You just don't know who exactly is going to fit their specs so don't even consider it. It's a long shot. If he gets the nomination, great, but if UVA is not a top choice without the Jeff, focus on other places. There are a million great schools out there.</p>

5

<p>All the stuff you mentioned is a start for Jeff scholar. If he can at least make it to an interview then all that application stuff becomes secondary, though it is true that jeff scholar stats are in the top 25%. They are looking for rounded students who fit the "go-getters who might change the world" and the outgoing type. From my impression of jeff scholars, being a good public speaker is a major plus.</p>

<p>Of course this is just my opinion of the group, I know a few of them and they're a great bunch, students just like the rest of us with special attributes that the foundation loves. It's too bad that it's the only non financial aid full scholarship that is available to attract students.</p>

6

<p>You don't have to be an exceptional student to be a Jeff scholar. If you have connections, the chances are better.</p>

7

<p>not true barboza. You do have to be an exceptional student and connections have nothing to do with it. The assembled interviewers at finalist weekend come from all over the country. No one knows them or who they are going to be. Jeff Scholars are looking for great students who love to learn and have something to give back to the community.</p>

8

<p>Trust me, I have friends who are Jeff scholars and their connections got them in. They don't have exceptional stats at all.</p>

9

<p>I know two people well in my area who won them four years apart. It was a very rigorous process and neither of these people had any family money or connections. I think you are being bitter and giving people the wrong impression of this program. Detractions based on one person's anecdotal evidence can mislead people completely. This parent was asking a valid question about a superb student who would like to be nominated. Don't mislead this parent with false information. How many jeff scholars have you known who got in on "connections?" Where are they from? How did they do on the math logic exam? The seminars? The writing exam? These all take place on finalist weekend and are judged by many different professors. Are the professors all in on the scam or do the "connections" trump the judges' evaluations? How do you think the professors feel about being overruled because of connections? Get where I'm going here?</p>

10

<p>Bitter? I never said that I was jealous of them. In fact these people are my best friends but I should just let people know it's not impossible to get into the program even if your stats aren't near perfect. I'm sure there are exceptional students in the program, but it's unrealistic to say that you don't have a chance if you screw something up in one area of your application. And connections as well as networking are very useful tools to get you to places.</p>

11

<p>okay whatever. I will say one more thng. I wanted to let this very nice parent know that 1) the son with the 2400 SAT's does have a shot at this scholarship and 2) there are no connections that will help unless he is BFF's with the teachers who nominate at the school level. You are simply wrong about connections because I watched my friends go through the entire process. After the selection weekend they made it very clear that the selection process was done fairly, impartially, and with a great deal of input from many people. This is not a legacy deal.</p>

12

<p>While your friends might not have had connections, there are other Jeff scholars who DO have connections (ie. my friends) and their stats weren't that great. I don't think any selection process can be done fairly because there tends to be more qualified applicants than available spots anyway. I'm very confident that when two applicants are fighting for the last spot, there are other considerations taken into account aside from just their application and interviews.</p>

13

<p>What are your son's ethnicities? (If you don't mind, I'm just curious)</p>

14

<p>my son is half asian and half european jew from middle east (israel). does this crazy background help? </p>

<p>One thing my son and i are talking a lot about is how best to position him. </p>

<p>I mentioned already in the post that his extra currilular is a bit weak in that what he spend most time on (independent studying at the college/graduate school level he did on his own) cannot be put on the application package with easily verifiable external validation (like competition award, etc). He does have thngs to put down, it's just that compared to some of his friends with tons of award and thousands of service hours, his seems to be weak.</p>

<p>One thing that really sets him apart is the fact that he is probably more cosmopolitan than 99.9 % of his peers. Not only because of his background, but because we as a family make it into a religion to visit a lot of countries: both developed and undeveloped. He covered 40-50 countries by now (we lost count).</p>

<p>I think he gained a lot of insights from these trips. </p>

<p>we will strategize how best to put this as a differenting aspect.</p>

<p>that said, based on what I heard thus far, I am afraid that the fact that he does not have a strong portfolio in the "usual" extra curricular stuff is really going to hurt him.</p>

<p>it's sort of too bad, since whatever he did (like graduate level self studying in areas like advanced economics) is not going to shine, while some other students who more or less followed the "formula" mostly managed by their overzealous parents are going to look much better.</p>

<p>I don't mean to sneer at students who genuinely initiated a lot of meanigful EC activitieis, iI was just talking about some clearly "manufactured" EC portolios. We see a lot of thoese cases in our area: helicopter parents who spend full time managing their hgh school childrends college application packages.</p>

<p>I dod not much at all on that: I spent a lot time taking them to crazy corners of the world and debating on a daily basis on crazy subject matters as a routine. Now, I am wondring whether i should have been far more conventional like other parents. Alas, too late. however, my son did turn out to be very well read and insightful on a lot of things going on in the world. that's my consolation.</p>

15

<p>wow, i know someone from my school who was half taiwanese and half jewish as well. it didn't really make a huge difference for him in terms of admissions, so I wouldn't count on ethnicity helping much.</p>

<p>however, i wouldn't be surprised if your son gets in everywhere he applies.</p>

16

<p>Your son has shot at this, but bear in mind that this is extremely competitive. To be nominated is a tremendous honor, and I congratulate him. I know two kids whose ECs were not tremendous, but their hearts and thoughts were in them, and they were able to clearly communicate their feelings to the committee. </p>

<p>I worried a bit about my third son this year during the college admissions process because he did not have a clear compelling talent or EC like his two older brothers did. Interestingly, an essay he wrote about one of his activities and his not so extensive involvement in the community garnered a lot of interest, and a research grant from a top school, and comments from several people who interviewed him and read his app. At this age, kids are not so slick that they can hype a clearly manufactured EC especially to college adcoms who are on the look out for these things. They can tell most of the time if a kid was "bought" his ECs, or if they are of his own interest, and if they affected him. My son seemed to me to be very unpolished and I did worry about the interviews, but it seemed that those very qualities were what the adcoms liked.</p>

17

<p>Hmmmm....let's see. Traveling to fifty countries versus being the secretary of the Latin club. I think your son will be just fine. Sounds like you made some good choices. Stop worrying.</p>

18

<p>I'm an entering Jefferson Scholar and I just went through all of that this spring, so I can help with questions about the process if you PM me.</p>

<p>Last summer, before my senior year, I basically told myself to forget it, that I didn't have a chance at the scholarship, and I wasn't even going to mention it to my counselor, except that she researched it and asked me if I wanted to be the nominee. It went from there. If you want details, message me, but my resume was interesting, but I had no national awards, sports championships (I didn't play sports), thousands of service hours, or any of that, and I was in the top 10% of my class but not the top. I did things that were interesting to me, that I could talk about intelligently in the interviews. And I can write well. After everything was over, I realized that "leadership and citizenship" are really open to interpretation- it's not necessarily student government and community service. (by the way, I was rejected from Princeton...)
I am also not particularly outgoing. In fact, I'm pretty quiet, although in interviews I learned to project and appear a little more confident than I felt.
"Connections" have nothing at all to do with winning. So many different people- the regional committee, the finalist interview committee, plus the foundation leaders- have a part in choosing the scholars. There's no way you can get in on connections.</p>

<p>I think your son has a shot. But there's no way to tell for sure. I would suggest for the most part that you let him figure it out. My parents, and I am very grateful for this, were supportive but let me do all the thinking and worrying and preparing on my own. I think they especially look for independent young people.
Please do feel free to contact me if you have questions.</p>

19

<p>While there are very different people in the committee, it helps to know one or more of them to get your foot in the door. It helps even MORE if you already know these people for quite a while.</p>

20

<p>listen to persepolis...she obviously has first hand knowledge. She is exactly right about the connections thing. Everything she said is exactly what my two Jeff scholars friends said to me.</p>