<p>I’m not sure of the difference, even though I teach at a Jesuit one. I believe Jesuits are a particular order of the Catholic faith that emphasizes teaching.</p>
<p>If your son is interested in law school, he may wish to consider Creighton. It is an excellent Jesuit school in Nebraska with a law school begun by Jews. They even have scholarships set up for Jewish people, but I think it may only be for undergrad law students.</p>
<p>The Jesuits are an order of Roman Catholic priests known for a centuries-long commitment to education and for a more open and inclusive approach to education. Jesuits are less doctrinaire than other orders, more interested in diverse perspectives and more open to the Socratic approach.</p>
<p>This is why non-Catholics tend to be more comfortable (and welcomed) at the Jesuit universities. And they are a little more progressive in other ways-- my D, for instance is involved in the Gay-Straight Alliance at her Jesuit U, and most of them now have those, while other Catholic and Christian colleges do not.</p>
<p>Notre Dame is not Jesuit, and Pepperdine is more Protestant Christian.</p>
<p>That said, law schools are different. I doubt a Jew (or Hindu or atheist) would feel the least bit out of place at Pepperdine law or Notre Dame law.</p>
<p>And in fact, my Jewish neighbor is a professor at a Jesuit law school. He says they are not religious in any way. They are serious law schools with diverse students and faculties.</p>
<p>Intellect is highly valued, respected at Jesuit U’s. A respect for logical, critical, open argument is a feature of that. And above all, scholarship (well-sourced argument). I can’t think of a Jew I personally know who would not feel comfortable in such an environment.</p>
<p>Jewish education professionals recommend that in order for Jewish students to have a reasonable cohort for identity and Jewish activities, they should attend large universities that are at least 10% Jewish and smaller ones that are at least 15% Jewish. </p>
<p>This is because Jews rely on group activities for identity. This is deeply rooted in Jewish tradition (examples are no individual salvation, requirements that there be a minyan, or at least 10 people, for certain prayers, even on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, all prayers say “WE have sinned” and “inscribe/seal US in the book of life.”)
The survival of the Jewish people depends on the next generation having a very strong identity.
I do not expect anyone on this thread who is non-Jewish to understand what I am saying. The paradigm is different.
This is from the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities website:</p>
<p>“In 2008-09, an average of 55.5% of undergraduate students identified themselves as Catholic, ranging from 33% to 77%. On average, 15.6% identified themselves as other Christian, 1.2% identified themselves as Jewish, 1.0% identified themselves as Muslim, 19.8% identified themselves as “Undeclared” and 6.6% identified themselves as “Other.””</p>
<p>According to the Hillel website, Georgetown has 650 Jewish undergraduates out of 6623 total undergraduates. Boston College has 200 out of 9753.Fordham has 110 out of 4600. Georgetown has 650 out of 6623. Boston College has 200 out of 9753. Santa Clara has 100 out of 4739. Loyola Chicago has 250 out of 10,000. I have not looked the others up, but I would expect the numbers to be small.</p>
<p>I majored in religious studies and had more than one college prof who said that Catholics and Jews understood each other better than Protestants understood either of the other two! And that this went a long way to explaining all the successful mixed marriages. </p>
<p>Cath & Jews both have had (until very recently) lots of traditions and strictures involving the kitchen. Nowadays Catholics have way fewer and only Jews who choose to, follow theirs, but we know about these practices. And we can respect them in each other — we are well able to understand the thinking behind kosher v. treyf and abstaining from meat on Fridays. Doing these things sanctifies your meals. </p>
<p>I (an Irish Cath.) grew up in a town with many Jews and I am able to keep a kitchen kosher (and have), and I don’t have a problem understanding why anyone would want to.</p>
<p>Cath. & Jews pay much attention to the differences between sacred time and non-sacred time and have very involved liturgical calendars — Cath. have Advent, Lent, Good Friday, etc and Jews have Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur — and both have lesser days, and marking of significant persons who did much for their communities (eg St Patrick, Esther). Older Cath. remember fasting all through Lent, etc. </p>
<p>Cath. & Jews respond to Tradition, including layers of traditons that grew up over centuries after the books of the Hebrew/Christian scriptures were written. Protestants expended a great deal of energy in the 16th & 17th centuries stripping away Tradition and relying solely on Scripture to such an extent that many today would say it impoverished their experience (they certainly impoverished their cultural heritages, as thousands of stained glass windows and other liturgical elements of church buildings were destroyed). </p>
<p>Many Protestant denominations do not see a need for actions such as fasting or keeping Shabbat holy (not cooking, walking & not driving), once a person has been “saved.” If already “saved,” why bother with such things? They may call them works-righteousness.</p>
<p>Cath. & Jews understand that doing such things with their bodies helps emphasize to their hearts that this day is holy.</p>
<p>Some poster above said something about a boyfriend maybe wanting to convert a girl. Certain Evangelical denominations place very heavy emphasis on the duty of their members to “save” as many of the yet-unsaved as possible. Conscientious members of their churches have to reach to their friends and acquaintances and attempt to proselytize them. Catholics do not operate under such obligations. </p>
<p>researching4emb said once a Catholic, always a Cath and that the same is true for those raised Jewish— some examples: Bruce Springsteen, Bono — there is an emphasis on the obligation to do for others and social justice that never leaves you (especially if you went to Cath grammar school!). </p>
<p>levirm—I understand exactly what you are saying. If I had a Jewish child who was contemplating a Jesuit univ I would look into the Hillel at the school, and also the presence in the town, city or neighborhood of vibrant Jewish community and whether there was significant outreach to the neighboroing school.</p>
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<p>Then I have to say that you really don’t know non-Jews all that well, or perhaps you have a limited circle of non-Jewish associates.</p>
<p>^^
OK, epiphany, let me start by saying that it is BECAUSE I have so many close non-Jewish friends that I can make the statement that I did.
This thread started out with a Jewish parent asking whether it would be a good idea for a Jewish student to attend a Catholic college.</p>
<p>There have been a number of responses from non-Jews, familiar with their impression of the Jewish experience in the United States, stating that it would be “no problem”. I believe that their perspective is that Jewish students would not encounter anti-Semitism on those campuses. I agree with this.</p>
<p>But -and here is the but- there is no way that non-Jews can truly understand how collective Jewish history is part of the Jewish psyche, and can understand that Jewish continuity is threatened today. Jews do extremely well in this country and are well accepted, and for this we are very, very grateful, especially after being kicked out of or exterminated from almost every country in the other hemisphere at some time or another. But the flip side of the coin is that our future and our continuity now are threatened by assimilation. </p>
<p>There is no way that I can expect you to understand why your statement about compatible couples, or another poster’s comments about successful marriages make me cringe. You probably even think that I am a terrible, prejudiced person because this makes me cringe. I am not. See - you don’t understand where I am coming from! Most Jews who are married to other Jews, though, will also cringe. That is because marriage and children are not just about those marriages and children to us. They are about our survival and continuity. “Success” and “compatibility” are also about the success of future generations and the compatibility with a people that is much larger than us as individuals. We call it l’dor v’dor - from generation to generation - a saying that permeates most of what we do. That being said, do I accept wholeheartedly people who choose Judaism? Absolutely! Am I extremely saddened and hurt when a Jew becomes a non-Jew? Absolutely! Is this a double standard? Absolutely! Is it justified in my mind? Absolutely! If my grandchildren are not raised Jewish, I will have failed as a parent. I would imagine that you do not understand that either. And it is not because I could not be friends with you - I actually think that you would be a very good and interesting friend.</p>
<p>At the same time, it would be presumptuous of me to pretend to understand many aspects of Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Muslim, Hindu, or any other religious life. Yes, I can enjoy the ceremonial aspects and celebrate life events with people and that is a joy. But, do I truly understand the paradigm? I am humble enough to say that I do not.</p>
<p>The upshot, though, is that I would encourage Jewish students to attend colleges with a sizeable cohort of other Jews. The age of college students is a critical one for confirming identity, and we simply can’t risk losing the next generation.</p>
<p>OP here.
I am reading and taking in all the different thoughts and experiences.
Levirm expresses well what my H has been vocalizing. D does not see herself as religious and is not convinced she will find a Jewish mate. (she is still of the stage that she is never getting married and not having any children) My H has expressed his feelings about Jewish identity and also about his feelings about remembering those who have come before us.
For me, I have the dilemma of finding schools that my D would be interested in attending and that appear to be a good fit. At this point it seems like my D will be most comfortable being a certain distance from home. For this reason at this time we are focusing on schools on the west coast. She will apply to some eastern schools but at this point I don’t see her attending one of them.
She also thinks she does not want a tiny school nor a huge school. She will also need merit aid to attend a private university. Quite a number of Jesuit schools are in the size range that she would like.</p>
<p>I’ve been following this thread with interest. Catholic thought is WHY would someone who is jewish give up their seat in the front of the bus to sit in the rear with the late comers? You will experience no proselytizing at any Jesuit run institution. And the Jesuit order is the Marine Corps of Catholic clergy.</p>
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<p>In your opinion. You can’t look into the minds and hearts of all the non-Jews that you know, let alone all those you do not know. You mean to tell me that your non-Jewish friends look like a deer caught in the headlights when such collective consciousness is mentioned? That’s absurd. I get it. Perhaps I’m a person of unusual ability to emphathize, project, imagine. Perhaps because, Wow: I was married to a Jew, whose parents were Auschwitz, Buchewald, & Bergen-Belson survivors, that I get it?</p>
<p>You weren’t talking about “many aspects of Protestant, Orthodox, Muslim, Hindu…” religions, but this particular aspect. I just flatly deny that others can’t relate, but I see that you’re determined to believe that. I guess you need to.</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>Dear OP,
I’m taking the liberty to pull down a quiet request you made above:</p>
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</p>
<p>I think that’s important and want to feature it here, hoping for some feedback for you.</p>
<p>I’m writing here now more as a “Member” and NOT as a Moderator. Changing hats. My instinctive response to your post comes from experience of sending my Jewish kids to private colleges where they had plenty of Jewish companionship (10%, 30%, 30%) throughout. Your first post asked how would a Jewish girl FEEL at a Catholic college, and all I can think is: “lonely.” In my own experience and that of my children, we are willing to date others of other faiths and have; but the foundation, warmth and understanding is there in greater measure when dating other Jewish kids. That doesn’t mean every relationship lasts, or every personality is a prize…but the experience of going to each others’ homes for holidays, dipping apples/honey for a moment during Registration week, or commiserating over Mom’s annual Passover cleaning frenzy is, well, fun and reassuring just as pure social experience, not to be missed while in college. She has next to no chance of that ever happening at a Jesuit college, although I can be sure she’ll meet many wonderful and fascinating people, also kind. Just not Jewish, like she is.</p>
<p>You have mentioned that you admire the sense of small community and warmth that your son gets by attending a 3,000 person private college far away. I fully understand that. Your H wants to consider costs, so is more open to publics. And YOU are being quite creative to seek out private Catholic colleges with merit aid, as one way to help her stay on the West Coast and closer to the warmth of her family home. I admire your many variables and know you are just trying to develop a list that responds to many competing hopes here.</p>
<p>But I think when those private colleges with merit aid turn out to be Jesuit colleges, you’re into a type of setting that will leave her in an odd position, emotionally. Since you and she are ready to sift that away among all the variables, I’m going to ask you to think a bit differently. She says she’s “Jewish but not religious” which is how I think a vast majority of Jewish kids would describe themselves today, heading off to college. That’s a felt identity. </p>
<p>I’m going to suggest she might actually feel more “close-knit community” being close-knit among other Jewish students whenever she so chooses, even in a bigger university, than being one or several of an extreme minority as a Jew within a small/medium sized Catholic college.</p>
<p>If you end up sending her to a Jesuit college now, it will be satisfying intellectually and will certainly not stand for antiSemitic treatment, by faculty or other students. But this question is not to be underestimated: who will she date? I think right now she’ll say she will be glad to date people of all backgrounds. She is open.</p>
<p>The question will be whether or not THEY will be able to fathom or “get” who she is, not the other way around. The complete acceptance Jewish girls feel when dating Jewish guys feels pretty great to Jewish girls. It’s not to be underestimated. It might be important enough to alter what size school she attends, simply to have her have the chance to experience a Jewish boyfriend, once or several times, during her 4 years. She might also want to try: Jewish folkdancing, travel with college friends to Israel, do a social justice project with a Jewish agency, discuss Israeli politics with Jews and nonJews (all those I just mentioned as “non-religious” activities) at some time during her college years. She can’t even try that at a Catholic college; she can at a “large” university and it may make it all feel “close-knit” to her emotionally. </p>
<p>These are completely my experiences, biases and perceptions for personal experience. I’m talking here about how many young Jewish women feel during their college years. They like to have many kinds of experiences, some adventurous and some familiar; some daring and some safe. You’re taking away her chance to have the more safe, familiar social framework of Jewish dating and making some Jewish college friends. Why? </p>
<p>Meanwhile, to maximize your choices, I’ll again bring this down:</p>
<p>
And let’s remember: OP is looking for ALL small/medium private colleges/universities that offer MERIT AID in these states!</p>
<p>Thanks for the great post, paying3tuitions!
Please understand, posters, it is not an insult to be told that you have a different perspective from another poster because of background, collective history, etc… Different perspectives is what cc is about. I hope that they are helpful to the OP.</p>
<p>Another perspective: some large schools do a fantastic job of creating smaller communities within them. I would encourage people not to completely write off a school because of its size until you have a good understanding of how communities are created at that school.</p>
<p>Haha, mom60! —</p>
<p>“D does not see herself as religious and is not convinced she will find a Jewish mate. (she is still of the stage that she is never getting married and not having any children)”</p>
<p>That is exactly the way my D is talking — except for the Jewish mate; plug in Catholic. </p>
<p>Are you looking at state univs too? I don’t know much about Wash or Oreg schools, but when I took my dau & her firend to visit our state univ (Rutgers) last autumn it became very clear there is a large Jewish presence on the campus.</p>
<p>We ate lunch in the large dining hall—and we were wondering where everybody was. Suddenly it dawned on me, we were there on Yom Kippur! I’d forgotten what day it was during our info sessions, etc. And I looked harder at the kids who were eating, and sure enough—Italians, Muslims, Hindus, Irish, African Amer, etc – no Jews – also a rather empty cafeteria. </p>
<p>45k students at Rutgers so it is not small—but a girl will certainly find Jewish friends who understand everything other posters have mentioned, very well. And, I assume, loads of young men to date.</p>
<p>As I mentioned above—If I were Jewish & my child was contemplating a Jesuit school because of aid, majors & courses offered, etc, relative to other schools, I would be looking very hard at the town/city and whether there was a Jewish community it would be easy to be part of while attending college.</p>
<p>If you want input from students at Oregon/Wash. colleges, why don’t you take this question to the Colleges pages of the forums and post it there? You could go school by school, if you have narrowed to certain ones based on majors in which she is interested.</p>
<p>I am taking it all in. I appreciate all the feedback and I am getting helpful advice.
Paying3tuitions- thank you for giving me some things to consider.
Though this process it has helped us eliminate a couple of schools. While Loyola Marymount has some wonderful things to offer it is probably not the place for her. Same with Univ of San Diego. Pepperdine was never even close to being considered. Seattle University is still on the list. I don’t have any firsthand knowledge of the school but I know my D is interested in Seattle and Washington State in general.
She will apply to large public schools both instate and OOS. They might very well be a good match for her. She is also considering Brandeis so she is not adverse to a good sized Jewish population.
Schools I would love more info on:
Seattle University
Western Washington
Whitman- D likes it even though it is small. She met a rep at a college fair and was taken with the school
Lewis and Clark- I think it is worth looking at but as of now my D feels it is too small
University of San Francisco</p>
<p>Also what is the best place to find the most up to date percentages of jewish students</p>
<p><a href=“http://reformjudaismmag.org/_kd/Items/actions.cfm?action=Show&item_id=1380&destination=ShowItem[/url]”>http://reformjudaismmag.org/_kd/Items/actions.cfm?action=Show&item_id=1380&destination=ShowItem</a>
and
[Hillel:</a> The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life](<a href=“http://www.hillel.org%5DHillel:”>http://www.hillel.org)</p>
<p>This will get you started. Type in the names of places that interest you on the second one listed here. </p>
<p>If there’s no Hillel on a campus you type in, they will list which Hillel from a nearby campus serves that campus. Understand that requires the student to take the initiative for campus-to-campus transportation to join in for events, meetings, and so on.</p>
<p>It’s helpful to follow up by e-mail or phone, to any contact people listed. These organizations are dynamic; numbers change annually; and their methods for gathering numbers sometimes needs to be understood. Hillels can overestimate or underestimate, depending on what sources they used to gain the population number. So if you get very interested in a particular campus, it’s wise to chase down further info and nuance by contacting the individuals in each location.</p>
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<p>Not all Jewish people feel the same way you do about the “threat” of intermarriage and so forth. You can’t speak for all Jewish people on this.</p>
<p>mom60, I really don’t know how accurate their statistics are - but it is probably the best we have. The nice thing is that you can search by criteria, or you can search particular colleges.
That being said, the link to Whitman appears to be broken.
You can also just google “Hillel - college name” to see what comes up.
Not that Hillel is the only Jewish organization! But, it is the one that most rely on for information.
[Hillel’s</a> Guide to Jewish Life on Campus - Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life](<a href=“http://www.hillel.org/HillelApps/JLOC/Search.aspx]Hillel’s”>http://www.hillel.org/HillelApps/JLOC/Search.aspx)</p>
<p>“Not all Jewish people feel the same way you do about the “threat” of intermarriage and so forth. You can’t speak for all Jewish people on this.”</p>
<p>Right you are, Pizzagirl. I am speaking for myself, and I base my concern on statistics from the National Jewish Population Survey, which shows 28% to 33% of children of intermarried couples being raised as Jews, about 40% being raised with no religion, and about 30% being raised in another religion.
Selection bias: yes - probably in favor of the more Jewishly identified.
Comparison group: can’t find it, although I have found other statistics indicating that 85 to 87% of children of Jews married to Jews are being raised Jewish.</p>
<p>thanks
I had looked at the Reform Judiasm Magazine page but the majority of the schools listed are not in the western US.
The hillel site is fair. Many of the links don’t work but it is a start.
I see on the Seattle University site a Jewish Student Union with an email link. That will be a start.</p>