job outlook for mathematician

<p>Hello, I am a rising senior in high school with a great passion for math. I hope to get a college degree in math and later get a Phd. I want to be a pure mathematician doing research and publishing papers. But I am wondering how the job outlook is, because it seems really hard to get hired as a math professor and do research, and my parents want me to major in computer science. also, I want to get into the Air Force Academy, but if I get in and graduate, I have a 5 year service commitment. If I get a Phd straight out of the academy, then I have added service time (I think its 5 years from the end of the Phd program). So lets say I get a Phd, do my 5 year commitment, and look for a research position. Is it possible to get such a job?</p>

<p>Well, I’m not sure you’ll have the same passion after you’re in. I came in majoring in physics and switched over to math. I am still testing the waters in my upper-divison courses as a junior to see if I would like to switch back. So, it’s nice to think ahead but don’t flatter yourself thinking you’ve got it all figured out right now. I think applied mathematicians do well. </p>

<p>Most math majors do a double major. You will pick up a lot of programming as a math major and be required to be a competent programmer. I would’ve double majored in physics and math (my university does not allow double majoring so instead I’m minoring in physics), but I think the most frequent double major is math/computer science. </p>

<p>I hope you like teaching 'cause you’re going to have a very hard time trying to get paid to be a researcher unless you’ll do it for breadcrumbs. Professors at universities can conduct research and still earn a decent paycheck, however. </p>

<p>There are research positions with the government, but I don’t know if you would like those jobs after already serving a commitment to the Air Force. These jobs do actually pay pretty well.</p>

<p>Yes.</p>

<p>Firstly, why do you want to get into the Air Force Academy if your true dream is to become a math professor? (Though I guess one reason might be the free tuition)</p>

<p>The job outlook for PhDs is tough, but it is always like that. If math is your true passion, I would strongly urge you to pursue that passion. </p>

<p>Your parents do have a point, however. CS job prospects are very good and very well-paying. Computer science involves many of the same skills as math, and mathy types of people tend to do well in it. I think the ideal route would be to major in math and minor in CS (and usually there is some overlap between the two fields at any given college). You can definitely get a job in the tech industry with just a minor in CS. In summary, a CS minor is a very good backup, and I think it would also satisfy your parents’ wishes.</p>

<p>This discussion provides an interesting look at the process of becoming a professor (albeit it only applies to really really top schools).
[Professorship:</a> How does one become a professor at universities such as Harvard, Stanford, Caltech, and MIT? Can someone indulge us with a narrative? What is the selection process? - Quora](<a href=“http://www.quora.com/Professorship/How-does-one-become-a-professor-at-universities-such-as-Harvard-Stanford-Caltech-and-MIT-Can-someone-indulge-us-with-a-narrative-What-is-the-selection-process]Professorship:”>http://www.quora.com/Professorship/How-does-one-become-a-professor-at-universities-such-as-Harvard-Stanford-Caltech-and-MIT-Can-someone-indulge-us-with-a-narrative-What-is-the-selection-process)</p>

<p>CalDud is also right. You should be aware that college math is nothing like HS math or even competition math, and you could very well change your mind. There are some statistics out there, but most college students change their intended major at least once during college.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your replies!
@terenec want to go to USAFA because its a good school, and yes its has no tuition, so thats a big factor. Plus, a free job!
I know that college math is different from HS or competition math; I’ve done competitions, and its fun and tricky, but its definitely different. Right now I am studying from Analysis from Baby Rudin, and the subject seems very interesting. I think I will continue to like college level math. also, thanks for the link! </p>

<p>By the way, so if I do a 5 year commitment for the Air Force, is it possible to do research during that time (like after work, on weekends, etc) because it seems like you need to publish articles to get a job as a professor?</p>

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That’s kind of the wrong way of thinking about it, since that’s not what you really would rather be doing. It is a commitment, after all, not a freebie.</p>

<p>I don’t know the specifics of the 5 year commitment, that’s really up to you to do your research on. You could also try and contact officials at the academy and ask them your questions.</p>

<p>All of this applies for pure math. I think if that if you’re interested in applied math, then maybe going to the Air Force Academy might work.</p>

<p>This summer, one of my professors said that your chances of becoming a math professor pretty much go to zero if you don’t either do a postdoc or get hired for a tenure track position right after grad school. He said he has never heard of anyone, in math at least, getting an industry job and then going back and becoming a math professor. </p>

<p>It is more common to take a break in between undergrad and grad though, but even there, the longer the break you take in between, the more difficult it will become to get into grad school, because when you go to ask for letters of recommendation for example, professors may have forgotten who you are, and things like that.</p>

<p>Have you considered just going to an in-state public school?</p>

<p>Well, my parents dont want me to go anywhere else because of the money issue. And I don’t want them to support me financially for college. I went to the Air Force Summer Seminar, and there was one graduate who is going to grad school for math (not sure if its masters or Phd) and then he is going to teach at the academy. What if I follow that route and get a teaching position? would that help me to find a job in academia later?</p>

<p>1mathboy1: </p>

<p>It’s great to have a dream like that. However, do understand that college will test your passions and dreams. I did math competitions in high school too, but my brain regurgitated abstract algebra (a subject in pure math), a class I ended up taking as pass/fail despite pouring so much time into it. I went into college aiming for a PhD and a double major in economics and CS for undergrad. Nowadays I’ll be happy enough to get into a decent Top 20 Masters program in CS, and I just plan on a Bachelors in CS (yes, I ditched econ). College is tough. There’s a reason why so many people change fields. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that you’ll change majors, but just wanted to give you a heads up so that you know what’s ahead.</p>

<p>Best of luck! :D</p>

<p>What state do you live in? Some state schools are very cheap and very good quality.</p>

<p>What’s your family’s financial situation? You might qualify for aid at state schools / cheap private schools.</p>

<p>I live in California;I am not poor, and my parents have good paying jobs. but they had a business before that failed, so even though they are making money, they don’t have much savings in the bank. They also need to plan on retirement. Basically, I don’t want my parents to pay for college at all. And they are pushing me to go to Air Force Academy (I mean, I like it as well; I went to their summer program, and it was great). So I guess I have very little chance in going into academia if I go to USAFA right? @broken_symlink what if I do a postdoc after the 5 year commitment?</p>

<p>I really don’t have any experience with this other than what my professor told me. I’m still in the process, and will be applying to math grad schools this fall for a phd, but I’d guess there are probably a bunch of problems. Five years is a long time to be away from math. Your skills become rusty incredibly fast when you’re not doing math everyday, as you would be in grad school. You also may not be up to date on the current research in your area. </p>

<p>I don’t know how getting a postdoc works either, but I’d assume its the same deal as getting into grad school, where letters of recommendation play a big role, in addition to the research you did. You’ll probably need to get letters five years after you finish grad school. Also, five years after you graduate, your area of research may not be fashionable anymore, and it might become harder to get a postdoc. </p>

<p>What kind of math are you interested in? Pure or applied? I think if you were interested in applied, then this probably wouldn’t be as much of an issue, because you could probably do some applied math in the air force. </p>

<p>If you’re really set on the air force academy, then go to grad school after your five year commitment. That is probably the best option, aside from going to a community college for two years and then just transferring somewhere for the last two years and avoiding the air force altogether.</p>

<p>Thanks for the reply! I’m not sure what kind of math I like; so far I only learn multivariable calc, ordinary diff. eq, linear algebra, and I am studying real analysis. I think I am leaning towards pure, but I don’t know enough to have an opinion. ok, so suppose I go to grad school after air force. do people get usually get debt after math phd programs, or can it all be paid for by working as TA, RA, fellowships, etc?</p>

<p>Have you considered just applying for for finance, econ, operations related job at a big company (i.e. ADT, Ing, Cisco, Bank of America, etc.)? You can get a pretty good job there too…</p>

<p>[Mathematicians</a> : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](<a href=“Home : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics”>Home : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)

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<p>How about becoming an actuary? My son is studying applied math with that career as his goal.</p>

<p>[Actuaries</a> : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/ooh/math/actuaries.htm]Actuaries”>Actuaries : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)</p>

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<p>@notaznguy and @MaineLonghorn yea, I have also been thinking about being an actuary, or maybe a quant. @MaineLonghorn, do you know the difference between actuaries and quants?
@noimagination I saw that website; I know its going to be hard to find a job as a mathematician.
@broken_symlink what job are you looking for? something in the private sector, or in academia?</p>

<p>Actuaries mostly work at insurance companies or consultancies. They price the risks related to offering a policy and calculate the premiums needed to keep the company in good financial standing. An actuary is a professional credentialed by an organization such as the SOA or CAS following a rigorous sequence of exams.</p>

<p>Quantitative analysts develop and maintain mathematical models in the finance sector. There is no clear-cut certification process for ‘quants’ - it’s more of a job title than a distinct profession. A PhD in any STEM field with extensive computer programming experience seems to be the most common path into the field.</p>

<p>The entry-level market for actuaries is reportedly tight and I think interest in the field will remain high. However, the exams help keep the supply of qualified candidates under control and demand is supposed to be good in the future.</p>

<p>Most graduate mathematics programs are funded, usually with a teaching assistantship.</p>

<p>As noimagination said, math PhD programs will almost always be funded, meaning there is no tuition and they give you a slight stipend.</p>

<p>Could you be more specific about your financial situation? “Not being poor” is not very specific. Could you give a rough estimate of your household’s annual income?</p>

<p>I would advise you to not only apply to the USAFA, but also to keep other options open by applying to other schools like the UCs/CSUs (Cal Poly, for example, costs 24k per year for tuition and room/board, not including any aid you might get) and possibly some private schools (depending on the financial situation). Most importantly, apply for financial aid at all the schools you apply to.</p>

<p>Another very cheap option is to go to community college for 2 years, then transfer to a UC (like UC Berkeley). It is usually easier to get into a UC by transferring from a CC than it is to get into a UC via regular admission. This would cost you about the same amount of $$ as going to a CSU for 4 years, except that you get a degree from a UC at the end.</p>

<p>Perhaps you could also share your academic stats, so we can get a better idea of whether you might also qualify for merit scholarships?</p>

<p>income: not sure, but definitely well over 150k… so no need based aid (single child as well)
Yea, I am applying to UCLA, UC Berkeley, MIT, and Caltech, West Point, USAFA, Naval Academy
stats:
SAT I Math-800 Reading-760 Writing-760
GPA 3.95 almost all honors and APs (basically hardest curriculum)
I took 5 AP classes so far, and took 9 AP tests. all 5s, except spanish lang(4) .
did some internships, volunteer work, club president, and math competitions. I don’t have any extradordinary ECs though.
I am positive I will go to USAFA if I get in though, and I think I have a good chance, b/c my academic stats are well above the average.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure I don’t really want to be a professor, so, I would mostly be looking for CS jobs I guess, probably in something like graphics or computational geometry.</p>