<p>Amen, RainMom. And welcome! </p>
<p>In response to the original question on this thread: Just got off the phone with S2. He has a gig tonight off (off off off...) Broadway, playing in Pirates of Penzance. He's subbing for a friend who freelances in NYC. Same friend just got a summer job with an orchestra in Mexico. It's a start!</p>
<p><maybe some="" of="" our="" musicians="" who="" like="" to="" work="" with="" their="" hands="" should="" consider="" instrument="" repair="" and="" maintenance.=""></maybe></p>
<p>One of my son's friends, a cello performance major, became friends with the local luthier in her college town after a terrible cello accident. Happy ending: she now works part time in his shop, and will be working full time and doing a repair/maintenance internship this summer.</p>
<p>binx: That sounds great! Good for him!</p>
<p>Here are some orchestra salaries that I copied from a website for trumpet players. The info is somewhat date, for the 2001-2002 season (but in the orchestra busines that doesn't mean that they are all higher now): </p>
<p>CSOM Orchestras</p>
<p>Alabama Symphony $29,064
Atlanta Symphony $63,440
Baltimore Symphony $70,720
Boston Symphony $95,420
Buffalo Philharmonic $36,280.69
Charlotte Symphony $30000.00
Chicago Lyric Opera $46,125
Chicago Symphony $95,940
Cincinnati Symphony $82,550
Cleveland Orchestra $92,820
Colorado Symphony $36,246
Columbus Symphony $47,840
Dallas Symphony $70,720
Detroit Symphony $85,800
Florida Orchestra $26,454.05
Florida Philharmonic $40,895.40
Fort Worth Symphony $47,020.00
Grant Park Symphony $9,637.10 (Summer only)
Honolulu Symphony $26,400
Houston Symphony $70,200
Indianapolis Symphony $65,000
Jacksonville Symphony $31,664
Kansas City Symphony $33,675.18
Kennedy Center Orchestra $45,583
Los Angeles Philharmonic $94,900
Louisville Orchestra $32,268.60
Metropolitan Opera $104,276
Milwaukee Symphony $55,748
Minnesota Orchestra $83,410
Nashville Symphony $30,769
National Symphony $86,060
New Jersey Symphony $38,772
New York City Ballet Orchestra $45,000 .
New York City Opera $37,816
New York Philharmonic $95,940
North Carolina Symphony $39,900
Oregon Symphony $41,125.18
Philadelphia Orchestra $95,420
Pittsburgh Symphony $87,620
Rochester Philharmonic $36,490
Saint Louis Symphony $73,645 (2000-2001)
Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra $62,700
San Antonio Symphony $33,150
San Diego Symphony $25,750
San Francisco Ballet $33,940
San Francisco Opera $61,892
San Francisco Symphony $93,860
Syracuse Symphony $25,901.51</p>
<p>ROPA Orchestras</p>
<p>Charleston Symphony $25,369
Chattanooga Symphony $20,671.20
Dallas Opera $18,240.00
Fort Wayne Philharmonic $26,090.80
Grand Rapids Symphony $36,708
Hartford Symphony $23,174.40
Memphis Symphony $22,140.70
Michigan Opera Theatre $9,619.08
Mississippi Symphony $8,593.75
New Haven Symphony $8,856
New Mexico Symphony $18,385.84
Omaha Symphony $29,560
Richmond Symphony $35,525.44
San Jose Symphony $28,329.05
Savannah Symphony $25,002,51
Shreveport Symphony $18,754.61
Spokane Symphony $15,049
Toledo Symphony $27,476.81
Tulsa Philharmonic $23,903.88
West Virginia Symphony $25,000</p>
<p>OCSM Orchestras
(in Canadian dollars; $1 Canadian is about 65 cents US)</p>
<p>Calgary Philharmonic $37,088
Canadian Opera Company $17,214
Edmonton Symphony $38,964
Kitchener-Waterloo Symphony $20,262
National Arts Centre Orchestra $64,676
National Ballet Orchestra $16,265
Orchestra London $21,460
Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal $10,200
Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal $60,996
Orchestre Symphonique de Quebec $26,780
Regina Symphony $23,844 (principal)
Saskatoon Symphony $20,950 (principal)
Symphony Nova Scotia $21,248
Thunder Bay Symphony $14,616
Toronto Symphony $50,243
Vancouver Symphony $41,860
Victoria Symphony $21,780
Windsor Symphony $13,585 (principal)</p>
<p>What a great list...thanks PatN!</p>
<p>On the subject of the disappearance of classical orchestral recordings made in the US...</p>
<p>My husband, who has been in & around the music business all his life, was just talking about this yesterday, noting that the musicians' union's insistence on strict work rules was, as much as per service costs, responsible for classical recording moving offshore.</p>
<p>He also said that now that technology has made it much easier for orchestras to make and distribute their own recordings, the situation may be changing.</p>
<p>As for earning a living as a musician, my D is about to get a master's degree in cello performance and starting at the end of the summer will be attempting to support herself in New York City. I'll keep you posted on how she does!</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that list PatN, very informative.</p>
<p>How about the average turnover? Or school the performers graduated from? A bit too much to ask, I know. Openings are rare at the big ones. And conservatories dominate.</p>
<p>I always wondered how salary worked. I know the musicians are unionized and there has to be some consistancy in pay. Probably the principle gets paid more than a section musician. But, the cellists who plays in 90% of the pieces can't be paid the same as the trombonists who is only needed in 20% of the pieces, can they? Would the pianist who is present for 50% of the pieces be paid the same as the percussionist who is present for 50% of the pieces? Does the principal oboist make the same as the principal violist? Does the first chair in the second violin section make the same as the last chair in the second violin section?</p>
<p>I guess I am asking if the particular instrument or the seniority or the position in the section make a difference in salary.</p>
<p>principals definitely get higher pay. i know a cello player in the baltimore symphony orchestra who says the whole cello section complains because they are paid less than the principal oboe, who plays much less often. i'm not sure why the pay works that way...but that's what she said. it seems that the 1st oboe would have a lot more pressure on how they play then a section(non-principal) cellist.</p>
<p>srtatzarina-
I think the prospects for music education majors obtaining jobs is dependant on geography.
Here is NJ, graduates from our two public schools, Rutgers and TCNJ, have all had job offers at graduation in the last few years.
Probaly not the same in other areas of US.</p>
<p>That list I posted above is supposed to be the minimum salary. I believe most union contracts set the minimum but not the maximum. Players in many of the bigger orchestras also get an increase in pay as their seniority with the orchestra increases. Principals can make significantly more. There was an article in the NY Times which reported that Phil Smith who is the principal trumpet in the NY Phil made $243,000 in 2003. He's considered the premier principal trumpet these days and he has been with the orchestra since 1978. ---I had a friend who auditioned for the contra bassoon position with the Cleveland Orchestra. He did not get the job, but if he had he would be making $100K, and how many pieces are there where a part is written for contra? </p>
<p>Here in the south you can make a good living as a band director, but you have to be able to put a good marching band on the field and take them to the Bowl parades.. Some of the directors at the big schools make $70 or $80K.</p>
<p>I have a band director that hates marching band:( It makes me sad, because it is herand a few music booster people that keep marching band out of our high school. I don't think they understand or appreciate the value of marching band! I feel like it can be such a great experience, and it really adds to the quality/level of playing in concert band and other situations.</p>
<p>Maybe I'm wrong? Does anyone with experience in this matter care to agree/disagree? I guess I could start a new post with this topic, but it isn't exactly connected to the whole "music major" heading of the forum. I just know that if I go into music education, I would love to have marching band. From the little knowledge I have, it seems to me that high schools with marching band produce great musicians.</p>
<p>Bumping this thread, because the recently begun thread on double majors is referring to the same article referenced here - on about page 3 or so. (Somewhere around post 39, I think?) Figured the opinions voiced the first time around might be pertinent this time, too.</p>
<p>For me, as you know, my S has chosen the all or nothing route. He's finishing up his sophomore year, so the jury is still out. I know he wouldn't have been happy doing it any other way, and seems to be on track to "make it." S likes to compose as well as perform, and just had two pieces performed at Juilliard, which were well received. We don't talk about "back up plans" here. Doesn't mean we don't think about them. But at this point, back up doesn't involve anything more than discussing what grad schools he might be interested in.</p>
<p>To be a performance major and get a job in an orchestra you have to, quite simply, be able to pull off a better audition than virtually anyone else. It requires steely honesty about your abilities. You must be honest about where you are at and how hard you are willing to work. (And about how tough the competition is on your instrument!) I got a full-time orchestra job eight years after I picked up my instrument. (A long time ago.) But I only recently realized that I was a lazy practicer. I congratulated myself at the time for practicing about 3 hours a day. But now I realize that if I had consistently practiced 5-6 hours a day I could have had much better results!</p>
<p>What about singers?</p>
<p>OK...here's my read on marching band. It is a wonderful experience for those who are interested in doing it. However,it is NOT good for a serious musician to be blowing their guts out in all kinds of weather, while marching around on a field. Most music performance majors would not walk across the street to be in a marching band. If you high school band director is interested in having a quality CONCERT band, then it is counterindicated to spend the entire late summer and early fall doing marching band. When I was in HS (ok...back when the dinosaurs roamed), marching band was an after school EC....and most of our concert band members were NOT in it. It was for kids who wanted to play their instruments and were not interested in the musical commitment that the concert ensembles required. We took a tour of U of MDCP a number of years ago with the manager of their marching band (one terrific band I might add), and she told my son (the performance major)..."most of the folks in the marching band are not very good musicians". They don't need to be. The music isn't all that challenging. But it's fun. Back to my original statement...if you are a serious musician regarding the playing of your instrument, marching band might not benefit you. If you play well, want to meet a great group of kids, and learn a lot about team work....marching band is terrific.</p>
<p>Never met a serious musician who was going toward performance that wanted anything to do with playing their instrument in Marching band. Not much doubt it is a negative for performers. If you are headed towards teaching HS band or just want some fun, then playing a different instrument can avoid some of the negatives. Maybe it is different for percussion. Not to mention the time lost factor. It really is more social activity and very little music in the sense of music that is played by serious musicians. Fun maybe, good for a musician not likely.</p>
<p>On a positive note re: jobs after conservatory. Just read on violinist.com that a 22 year old recent graduate of Cleveland Institute of Music named Joshua Roman was just appointed principal cellist of the Seattle Symphony. He is replacing Raymond Davis, who had held the position for 44 years. What an accomplishment! He apparently studied with the principal cellist of the Cleveland Orchestra while at CIM.</p>
<p>Is this one still news to anyone?:
Twenty year old Carol Jantsch won the (only) tuba chair in the Philadelphia Orchestra recently.</p>
<p>She auditioned, won the job (which might pay near $100K) and then went back to finish up her degree at Univ of Michigan.
Good for her!</p>
<p>Re: Marching Band;
At our son's HS, marching band IS still an after school extra-curricular. Though repeatedly 'encouraged' to join, he declined. Not enough music, and way too much marching in the August sun. He stuck to band, wind ensemble (for credit), and jazz band, pit band, for ECs.</p>
<p>We don't even have marching band at our school, that is how little it is respected. But we do have three bands, two orchestras, three jazz ensembles (honors and non-honors for each genre), and multiple other smaller ensembles.</p>
<p>I think marching band is great for kids who want to do that, but I would agree that it is an entirely different level of play.</p>