My S just graduated with a physics degree and all of his physics classmates (granted, there are only about a dozen) have received jobs in industry if they are not going to grad school. I think it’s a pretty employable liberal arts degree
You’re completely offbase saying teacher’s don’t make a living wage. Teacher pay is good in CA and even better when you consider you have summers off. I didn’t look at Bay area but no one says he has to live in the Bay area. You say you are making $100/day after taxes. That is a struggle anywhere and I get that. Teachers are way above that.
Now, he needs to be motivated to teach just as he needs to be motivated for other professions. I suggest talking with him about the costs of life such as rent and utilities and how he intends to pay those after HS if he is not a college student. I applaud your effort to help set him up for success. Be careful not to cross over to enabling.
thumper1- yes, there are engineers that started off in CC. I am not ruling out CC entirely yet for DS, that is still an option. But, I did notice that the CSUs start off immediately with the specific engineering courses not offered by the CCs, which has got to lengthen the time over all one spends in college. Also, there are also different criteria that I learned from this website and confirmed through the schools, such as UCSB engineering doesn’t have transfers coming in from a CC. Davis does, but the GPA needs to be 3.5 in certain courses. I am not certain DS could pull that off anyhow. Just exploring the options and gratefull to have an ear or in this case many sets of eyes!!!
Sportsman88- are you a teacher in the bay area???Try to buy a house in the bay area on teacher’s salary!
I specifically said that I didn’t look at the Bay Area. I did look at areas within 150 miles of there. Your son might be best served to leave the local area if it is unaffordable.
I expect many good jobs don’t pay enough to make ends meet in the Bay Area.
@surfcity : where did he go to school?
@Themathaw : kids have to go where the jibs are. They don’t stay where their parents live or where they went to college. Limiting oneself geographicakkybis one big reason some kids end up in their parents’basement. Following the jobs wherever they are is what new college grads must do. California does have a huge advantage because it forbids noncompete clauses, something that’s crippling employees in some states.
Here is a recent article from the Sigma Pi Sigma (undergrad physics honors society) magazine showing in a general sense where physics grads are going after graduation.
If your son does consider attending a CC, for the UC’s there is TAG (Transfer admission guarantee) that if he meets the GPA and course requirements, he is guaranteed admission. 6 UC campuses participate but as noted UCSB Engineering is not included but he can still apply as a regular transfer. The CSU’s can be just as difficult to transfer into as UC’s since CSU’s give local applicants priority which can exclude many non-local high performing transfer applicants. If he is really interested in Engineering, go for the direct admit as a Freshman. Much easier to move down in majors than up.
If he is really undecided, I think a CC is still the best path to take.
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/
UC Transfer GPA’s by major and campus: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/transfers-major
http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/transfer/
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/tag-matrix.pdf
Gumbymom- Yes. That is what I am starting to lean towards IF he gets into a Uni as a freshman and admitted into engineering then let him go for it. If he ends up messing up the first semester with those engineering classes, I will need to talk to him about reevaluating and possibly switching into a science major. The CC transfer into engineering I just am not buying into because the GPA requirement is not a sure thing for MY boy ( could work out great for others). I am also trying to learn more about different engineering careers since even though he claims he wants to do civil, he doesn’t really know what that entails.
Civil = math and physics from an academic standpoint. Need to be comfortable to strong in these fields to get through the program.
Going to an ABET certified program is a MUST in Civil E. Also you will likely want to get a PE (Professional Engineering license) which involves a wide ranging test around graduation time and working 5 years under a PE in industry. Will be hard to move up without the PE and it also bumps salary - you’re much more valuable to your company with it (in most CE fields)
JustGraduate -Yes. I think civil would have employment and the salary is good. DS seems to get Bs in both AP physics and the trig/pre calc. He is not the best but better than average. There are some universities for his type. UNR and like I mentioned a couple of the CSUs. What about using the physics degree from a non ABET CSU? That wouldn’t be very marketable? Doesn’t sound like it would be for CE. Thanks for the info.
In civil engineering, Professional Engineer licensing is common, and having an ABET accredited degree is far more useful for that.
Civil engineering is commonly offered at CSUs, including some of the less impacted/selective ones like Chico, Fresno, Los Angeles, Northridge, Sacramento.
My understanding is you have to have an ABET certified Civil Engineering degree in order to sit for the PE testing for Civil. Believe all PE tests require an ABET engineering degree.
Civil is ok paying, but not on the higher end of the engineering scales. Demand is good in areas where economy is stable or growing. Strongly recommend getting an internship from at least summer between sophomore/junior year on, if not after freshman year (better e-schools will have contacts to earlier internships like the latter).
Grades are important in getting internships, especially early, and jobs. Below a 3.0 will be tough sledding, 3.5 puts you in good shape. Much tougher to get those grades in college than HS so starting strong freshman year is crucial.
Thanks. ucbalumnus- those CSUs are ok, but Chico concerns me due to the over alcohol and drug reputation and Northridge due to it being too "commuter ". The others ( Fresno, Sac., La) I have concerns about air quality due to DS asthma. As far as Chico and Northridge- he will apply, but I am a little apprehensive. Also, considering Reno and CPP if any one knows about those.
Still, not entirely certain about civil, as we are still in the research phase. I have read that “geoscience” will have future demand. We will need to learn more about that as well.
JustGraduate- this is important info regarding grades- because if he is doing bare minimum with first college year, then he could end up unemployed, which defeats the reason I will be sending him to college. I would imagine that CPP would have more internship opportunities than Chico.
Pomona has pretty bad air quality. I would think it would be worse than Sacramento for sure.
My son is also looking into civil eng. He’ll try for Cal Poly SLO (refused to consider Pomona because he hates L.A.) but is also looking at WSU, Colorado State, and Univ. of Wyoming. I’ll probably make him apply to Chico too just in case. The OOS schools are all WUE (WSU has it’s own award but it’s WUE-like) --but bear in mind WUE does have GPA/test score parameters
If Pomona is worse than Sac. then that’s bad! I haven’t been yet, plan to go next month.
Mine also has Cal Poly SLO as a dream school, but it is way beyond a reach for him.
I think mine would have a solid chance at Wyoming, but he doesn’t want too much snow. We have never been. There is always something. We will just need to apply and visit and pick the best option out of whom ever accepts.
I am practical as well and will only allow him to consider the WUE schools is they are OOS, and only if he is with in those parameters.
UNR has WUE and an engineering dept. One needs 3.0 and at least 22, I think on ACT. to get WUE. Have you and yours considered?
I’d seriously consider the csu 's before UNR though.
What about Montana State and Northern Arizona? New Mexico Tech?
I’m not sure a student who’s not very hard working and gets B’s can handle engineering. Do you think he’ll mature and grow into it in college?
MYOS1634 -I am the one that thinks about UNR for several reasons. DS actually is afraid of the “strippers” (ha)! I guess he has that impression because he is confusing it with Los Vegas. Wondering why you seem to think CSUs are better?
Well, I know beggars can’t be choosers in terms of GPA and admissions…but Montana may have too many snowy months for DS ( he claims he doesn’t want to deal with too much snow for too long). NAU, I have heard is a real party place that may not be very reputable (please correct me if I am wrong, I think I read it on this site). And, NM Tech is one that I haven’t really done research on (maybe because there aren’t enough girls and I want him to have a girlfriend and New Mexico scares me after watching Breaking Bad). sort of kidding but some truth to that on an emotional level.
Love the candor that folks on the site here have. About engineering- geez I wish I could have a way to find out. He took an AP comp science class this year and hated it! This is how he knew that software engineering or comp. science would not be for him. But, he seemed to be really into physics. Now, I know that the teacher can have a lot to do with this. But, he says he does’t want a desk job.
I sort of think that the universities will self eliminate- that is reject him for that major (engineering) if he isn’t a good candidate. But- we don’t know that!
@themathaw You can find alcohol and drugs anywhere there are large concentrations of 18-25 year olds. Of course people party at Chico, but, people also party at SDSU, CP SLO, UCSB not to mention, UCD, UCLA and Stanford. It isn’t everyone an it isn’t all the time. Northridge and Sac students are more spread out so, it isn’t as visible but, trust me, it happens (I own a rental property near Sac, for about 6 years it has been occupied by a series of Sac State students in succession - they replace each other and the parents all co-sign the lease - a wonderful situation but, they have a big ‘keg’ party at least once a year) . There are distractions everywhere in life - some of the most important lessons you learn in college are about how to get your work done when there’s something else you would rather be doing. .
Spend some time on the campuses you are considering - stop students you see and ask the what they like, what they hate and if they’d choose that campus again. You’ll gain really valuable insights about what’s really going on.
Doing bare minimum freshman year in a general engineering program, given that he’s coming out of HS with a B to B+ average ups the odds that he’s not going to get to sophomore year in engineering. Freshman foundation courses are typically math and science classes, not much engineering - and not too exciting for a kid who wants hands on engineering work. But in many programs, frosh grades determine whether you can go into your engineering concentration or not. Civil often doesn’t need the grades that say Aero or CS do, but there aren’t many programs that take <3.0 - if not higher. Is your son honestly committed to putting a lot more work in and getting the same or better grades than in HS - 'cause that’s pretty much what he’d need to do in most engineering programs. Not trying to discourage, just be realistic…doing the bare minimum is rarely a good fit for engineering majors.