People who take 6 APs are unlikely to be valedictorian because they’re unlikely to get As in all of those courses. Someone who takes only 4 or 5 APs might be at an advantage because of the greater likelihood of getting As.
@Marian True but AP being 5.0, Honors 4.5 and regular 4.0, odds are still high for ones who take all AP.
He might be Val and still not get into this very select group of elite colleges. Then what? What are the colleges he is looking at, why those, and why are they so critical?
I find this system very frustrating and not very productive. It takes focus and joy away from learning.
And stop with the “Asian” piece. White valedictorians aren’t guaranteed admission into elite colleges either.
@WorryHurry411, those are the values if the grade is an A. What if it’s a B?
I’m suggesting that you might be able to talk your son out of this schedule without talking him out of the goal of being valedictorian if you get him thinking about strategy. If his competitors are taking schedules that are too tough for them, their grades may drop. Could he out-strategize them by taking a slightly less demanding schedule and getting higher grades?
Another possibility would be to out-strategize them by picking one or two easier APs, if they’re available and he hasn’t already taken them. I wouldn’t suggest substituting something else for AP Spanish or AP Calculus because it’s hard to resume the study of Spanish or math if you haven’t taken it for a year. But is there an easier AP that he could take instead of AP US History or AP Art History? Like maybe AP Psychology? AP Psychology is one of the easier APs because it’s equivalent to only a semester of college work rather than a full year of college work, and people usually love it because of its inherently interesting subject matter.
By the way, I’m not saying that I agree with the goal of being valedictorian. I’m just suggesting ways that you could talk with him on his terms.
Fwiw, WorryHurry, my Hispanic, recruited-athlete nephew with sky high scores at a rigorous private school got rejected from some Ivies and similar elites. Really need to work on getting the chip off your shoulder and recognizing that admissions are not a “reward” for hard work, but the result of elites cherry picking the class they want to have among students who are academically capable.
The system is only frustrating if you define “success” as getting into a top 10 school. Is your son doing that? Are you doing that?
@Marian He did that in first two years, even when one gets 100/100 in regular courses, it was 4.0 while people scoring 80/100 in AP can have 4.0. Not that any of his competitive circle ever makes anything below 95 in any course.
Ditch Art History AP (unless they love art) to give the student a break.
The Olympics is just a really poor analogy, because there’s only one gold medal, one silver medal, etc. We have a wealth of excellent colleges in our country and a wealth of opportunities. It’s not zero/sum.
Yes, CC is full of unsophisticated people who think that the world throws itself at your feet if you get into Harvard but if that if you only go to Brandeis, you’ll forever be an also-ran in life and that you’ll be lucky if they let you move up to the fry machine. There’s no need to perpetuate that, because it bears no relationship to reality.
I keep hearing “competitive circle.” Your son needs to learn to ignore what others do and run his own race. This is life advice, not just college advice. Other people’s successes and failures are simply not relevant to anything he chooses to do.
@Pizzagirl I don’t want to go into why he wants to go to certain colleges. A heart wants, what a heart wants, you don’t have to have a logic to like someone or something.
To be fair, as much as I try to steer him towards good schools with better odds of acceptance and good merit money, for most high performing students, most selective schools with most high performing community is the ultimate prize.
Are you saying he can’t have “competitive friends” without taking all AP courses? Really?
You know…he could take all of these AP courses and still have a lower rank than his “competitive friends”. IMHO taking courses for ranking purposes is not the best idea.
You mention worrying about physical health due to lack of sleep. Does he have health issues?
And with this heavy AP schedule, will he have time to participate in sports, or band/orchestra/chorus, or he school play…or any other after school EC? Or will he be wedded to doing homework from school dismissal time until bedtime.
Dinner was non-negotiable for us as well. Family dinner every weeknight. We fit it in somehow even when the kids had afternoon or evening ECs. Actually, when they are home now, it’s still non-negotiable. We don’t get to see them that often, so one meal a day with the old parents is expected.
I’d like to date George Clooney, too. The heart wants what the heart wants. Should I pin all my hopes on it?
Whether he is competitive to apply to an elite college is within his control. Whether he will get in or not is OUT OF HIS CONTROL. He’s making the mistake that if he studies that much harder, gets one more A, he will get in. That’s just not how it works. He could be Val, hit all the right notes and still not get in. So he needs to use his considerable brainpower to stop pretending that the top 10 or Ivies or whatever are magical places where chocolate flows from fountains and that the next 40 (let’s say) are just “settling.” At the end of the day, these are simply all institutions with lots of resources and concentrations of intelligent, interesting go-getters.
Unless, of course, the goal is impressing and/or beating his buddies. In which case you need to model for him that this is not the way to approach life.
By the grace of God, he has no health issues but even healthy people benefit from good sleep and low stress.
I’m not saying that he can’t have friends, it’s just they enjoy competing just the way their friends in athletics does. They are aiming for top 2 slots and top 20 colleges. They have been dreaming of walking graduation stage as actors want to walk for the Oscars or athletes for Olympics.
He is planning to cut down involvement in his EC’s and volunteer work for junior year but he’ll be doing it.
You know, don’t you, that elite colleges don’t particularly care about Val/sal and that one extra A isn’t going to make the difference? Elite colleges have a boatload of straight A students to choose from. This isn’t going to be what distinguishes him.
My real dilemma is to be unconditionally supportive or to intervene and object?
@Pizzagirl Being Val/Sal is a seprate thing, he isn’t doing it to impress colleges. That’s his personal target.
How much is he cutting back on ECs? If he is eliminating them in deference to academics, there ARE elite colleges that will wonder why. Sure, schools are looking for great students. But those schools have a boatload of great applicants…and many of them have excellent ECs that they pursue through senior year as well.
OTOH! If the only way your kid is going to get “most aggressive courseload” checked on his counselor recommendation…than fine…guess he has to do what he has to do.
You know…he will only be in HS once. We wanted out kids to actually work hard, but also enjoy the experience…not be totally wedded to textbooks, and paper writing.
But then, we also understood that going to college in the top 20 was not essential to life.
After 12 years of hard work, he wants his prize, even if it’s of no real importance.