"“Just look at the percentage of US presidents, state or treasury secretaries, Supreme Court judges etc from state and Ivy schools.”
Good grief!
you are extrapolating the “importance” of going to an IVY for your DS based on the careers of a HANDFUL OF PEOPLE??
that is just silly.
And BTW- NO ONE has the name of the college they went to carved on their tombstone, because its NOT IMPORTANT in the long run.
Its time you stop living in the "woulda, shoulda " past and recognize that your attitude about where your son SHOULD apply to college because it will help him in life is unrealistic, simply because there are now 10-20X’s the # of applicants to those colleges than there were 20-30 years ago. And the great majority will be rejected. NOT because they were not qualified, but because there was not room for them all.
Times have changed and the chances of your DS being accepted at the same top college that accepted you are far less than when you applied to college. As they are for the veteran parents here in CC who are trying to help you . We recognized it when our kids were applying to college- its time for your to do the same.
There are lots of colleges with fabulous profs, and great networks where your DS WILL meet his peers- other top students- simply because THEY ALSO will be rejected by the same colleges that you want your DS to apply to.
so get your head out of the sand with your unrealisitic hopes and dreams and help your DS find other colleges to apply to than just those that you think have “magic dust”.
Its time to stop thinking about the past and face today’s reality.
Just joining in… But in a lot of Texas high schools a kid can take a class and GPA exempt the class so it does not hurt or help ranking. In fact, by senior year at my kids high school some take 2-3 APs and then GPA exempt all non-required classes.
I am a practicing attorney living far from the Big 10 undergraduate and law schools I attended. Most of my colleagues did undergraduate at schools close to here, or close to where they grew up. Most did law school nearby, and our legal community is largely from state flagship law schools. Large corporations here recruit from all over, seeking talent far and wide, and certainly not just from the Ivy league. After 20+ years in this community, it has become clear to me that the link between undergraduate institution and career success is tenuous at best. I have no regrets about not attending an Ivy league school, and I don’t know anyone here who feels that way.
As I go through this process with my own children, I am wanting them to find schools where they will find their own paths. I see no monopoly by any school on career success, thank goodness. The work that my kids put into their own higher education will provide the launching point for their career success, whether that is at an Ivy league school, a state flagship, or many other of the great choices that await them. For us, the kids will need to drive this process because they are almost adults (that was hard to write!), and the life decisions going forward will be theirs to make, not ours.
The Ivy league schools have a great brand. But I would never pick a brand over a better fit, a place where my kids will have opportunities to grow and become the adults they want to be.
@WorryHurry411, I hope you will talk with your son about what he really wants, beyond the competition for high school grades, which he will likely look back on and realize how foolish and fleeting a goal that is. Dropping his ECs to fuel that competition can’t possibly make him happy (although I don’t know you son, but I hope that won’t be where he derives his happiness). I hope you will visit schools with him to find his fit, so that he can find his passion for learning, not just in competing for the grades. If he does that, he will have no trouble finding jobs, having a great network, and likely achieving that success in his life. Nowhere in that process is an Ivy league education required.
“A social class where they don’t have to worry about financing eduction of their children. If I had sent them to private grade schools or elite summer camps etc then we wouldn’t even be able to finance a semester of an Ivy school. I don’t want them to make decisions that I had to. I want them to be able to not think before giving significant charity to change some lives, not worry about travel cost of they want to see some natural wonder in another country. Just things like that.”
And you really think that every graduate of HYPS (or whatever schools you deem “top”) is in that social class? You aren’t just setting yourself up for disappointment if he doesn’t get into the schools on his A list. Even if he does get in, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. Going to those schools is NOT going to guarantee that he will be wealthy enough to endow foundations, enjoy luxury travel on a whim, and never have to consider the cost of anything.
“It’s not about some magazine’s ranking. These schools offer cream of top students as your peers, great faculty, elite alumni and give you an uplift in life, both socially and employment wise. I’m not saying that smart and hard working kids from public schools can’t beat elite school graduates but odds are lower and require more efforts, at least for first decade of their careers.” Is this your opinion or do you have data to support your assertions? You’re certainly entitled to your beliefs, but it’s important to identify them as opinions rather than statements of fact .
My brother has all those things you described. He went to a JR college and a state school and then medical school all associated with the same state schools your kid has access to in Texas. He can send his kids to wherever they can be accepted and he doesn’t blink at the cost of multiple vacations.
All of the things you described are a factor of his crazy hard work and his dedication towards saving.
Bottom line, OP: even if we endorsed your sprint for a top school, you still aren’t any wiser about what it truly takes.
You’ve given reasons like his heart, he’s determined/headstrong, you want him to be secure, something about competition, etc. But you still haven’t dug beyond what you and he want.
Like many, you’re thinking about this based on hs, thinking val or special kids get a boost. Again, how much do you really understand what they look for and what it takes?
“A social class where they don’t have to worry about financing eduction of their children. If I had sent them to private grade schools or elite summer camps etc then we wouldn’t even be able to finance a semester of an Ivy school. I don’t want them to make decisions that I had to.”
It sounds like the primary motivator for you is sending your kid to the school where he’ll wind up making the most money. What if that’s not his goal? There are plenty of young adults doing things like Teach for America, Peace Corps, working for non-profits, etc. They don’t make a lot of money but so what? Would that disappoint you? It wouldn’t disappoint me. I have one kid who is likely never going to make a lot based on chosen career field. Oh well. There’s more to life than amassing money. There are enough soulless kids who believe the meaning of life is making money. No need to add an additional one.
“I’m not saying that smart and hard working kids from public schools can’t beat elite school graduates but odds are lower and require more efforts, at least for first decade of their careers.”
I’m unclear as to why it requires “more effort.” Success always requires hard work. When State U kid and Elite U kid are working side by side in their first job, they had each better put in lots of effort. I think you mistakenly think that Elite U kid is going to be given more latitude, or less work, or be promoted quicker, simply because he went to Elite U. That’s not the case.
WorryHurry, someone lied to you big time and you fell for it. I don’t know whether it was back in your home country, or here, but you really are caught up in some beliefs that are not grounded in fact and you seem hesitant to abandon them. The Ivies are NOT magic schools that guarantee success. They DON’T guarantee high salaries or life happiness. They are NOT equally the highest prestige in all areas of the country - in fact in many parts, the state u’s have more brand power. (Want to get ahead in Mississippi? You’ll go farther with Ole Miss than you will with Dartmouth.)
“These schools offer cream of top students as your peers, great faculty, elite alumni and give you an uplift in life, both socially and employment wise. I’m not saying that smart and hard working kids from public schools can’t beat elite school graduates but odds are lower and require more efforts, at least for first decade of their careers.”
if you really believe this then I agree with Pizzagirl- you have been fed a lie and have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
I cant count the number of times CC veterans have read this same BS over the past 10 years , and most of the time it is written by Asian parents. Why, I dont know. Perhaps that is something you should ponder, because the color of ones skin or eye shape does NOT mean that if you DONT get into an “elite” college your life will turn out worse, and getting into one will NOT insure your life will end up being better.
One more time- just to make sure the message is getting through-
THESE ARE FALSE BELIEFS AND ARE JUST NOT TRUE- NOT HERE IN THE US.
It might matter if you go to college in the United States and then get involved in doing business in Asia. Having graduated from a university with high name recognition in Asia could be an advantage.
I have other kids, their friends, foster kids, friends, kids of my friends, spouse’s friends, neighbors, colleagues, family, in-laws, acquaintances and social media friend in my life so my son isn’t always the focus of my thoughts.