<p>I've been researching colleges for a little while and am starting to visit them, but my list as of now looks like:
Reaches: Princeton, UPenn, Dartmouth
Matches: UVA, Georgetown, Williams, Duke
Safeties: Davidson, Boston College, Holy Cross, Santa Clara</p>
<p>Obviously it needs some cutting down, but that's the list as of now</p>
<p>What are other JUN10RS tentative lists??</p>
<p>Reaches - Kenyon College, Claremont McKenna College
Matches - Illinois Wesleyan University, Beloit College, Lawrence University, Trinity University
Safeties - Knox College, Truman State University</p>
<p>I’m debating whether or not to look at Earlham College, Loyola Marymount University, and Chapman University</p>
<p>I think that Boston College is more comparable with your matches than with your safeties…</p>
<p>But anyway:</p>
<h1>1: Stanford</h1>
<h1>2: Brown</h1>
<h1>3: Northwestern</h1>
<p>and after that, my list changes constantly, but I’m visiting schools over Spring Break so hopefully I will be able to have a more defined list.</p>
<p>High Reaches: Dartmouth, Yale, Williams, Amherst
High Matches/Low Reaches: Bowdoin, Middlebury
Matches: Colby, Haverford, Brandeis
Safties: Mount Holyoke, Connecticut College, Ohio State</p>
<p>I’ll probably shortin it up to 8-12</p>
<p>Reaches: West Point, Yale, Naval Academy, Claremont Mckenna</p>
<p>Matches: Grinnell, Carnegie Mellon, Whitman, Davidson</p>
<p>Low Match: U of Rochester, Colby</p>
<p>Safeties; Kalamazoo, Rhodes, SUNY Geneseo</p>
<p>Some of you need to reconsider the meaning of Reach, Match, and Safety.
For almost nobody would Davidson, BC or Holy Cross be Safety schools. For nearly as few would Georgetown, Williams, or Duke be Match schools.</p>
<p>A school like Williams gets so many applications per place that it can and does reject some students with very high grades and scores. You can be an excellent applicant and still be rejected because an admissions rep is having a bad day and does not like something about your essay. Merely having scores and grades on the high side of the median range does NOT make it a “match”. It just means you’ve met the basic criteria, so your chances may be up to 1 in 3 or so (if that). At some schools with admit rates below 20%, stand-out ECs no longer mean being the editor of your school paper. Certainly at Princeton, and to a lesser degree at Williams, it could mean state-level or national awards in science, the arts or athletics. If you have no “hooks” (URM, legacy or major benefactor, serious athlete on a winning team, etc.) then at a school like Princeton, your true chances of admission may be about 1 in 20 (5%). So you need serious back-up.</p>
<p>A good Match might be a school where your scores and grades would place you in the top 25% of enrolled students, you have decent ECs, AND the admit rate is above 25% or so. Even for many very good students, these would tend to be schools outside the USNWR top 20 LACs or universities.</p>
<p>A true Safety is a school that is virtually sure to accept you because it has clear grade and score cut-offs. It also should be a school your family can manage to afford, even if major financial aid does not come through. Finally, it should be a school you’d be reasonably happy to attend. Add up all three of these criteria, and for many good students it means an in-state public school. NOT an expensive selective school like Davidson that picks students based on sometimes fickle, “holistic” criteria.</p>
<p>Country Day seems to have a fairly coherent, realistic list. Sara12 and CollegeXC need a little jiggering but are almost there (bump sara’s Haverford, MtHolyoke and Conn College at least a half notch each; ditto for XC’s Kalamazoo, Rhodes,Colby, Grinnell, Davidson). Collegelookin maybe needs a little therapy (though s/he seems to have some clear tastes in style, size, location which is very good at this point). Though it’s impossible to say in any case if a list is realistic without at least seeing some stats.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice tk21769. I thought that Mount Holyoke would be a saftey, because my SAT score - 2230 - is a good bit above their 75th percentiles, 700, 700, and 720. I have 730, 730, and 770. I also have two fives on AP exams, predict two more fives by application time. I have fairly unusual ECs (I assist researchers and patrons at a historical society weekly and work in archives, along with typical ec’s - president SADD) and a 4.0 GPA UW. So… to me, Mount Holyoke would be a saftey. And Conn, because their 75th percentiles are even lower. Do you think, knowing my stats, that my list is realistic, with my reaches, matches, safeties?</p>
<p>sara, based on what you’re saying, I’d consider MHC and Conn College two very solid “match” schools for you. Yes, they could almost be considered safety schools, but that depends on your family’s financial situation, your number of applications, and your tolerance for risk.</p>
<p>MHC and Conn College are both more expensive and more selective than Ohio State (unless maybe you’re applying OOS or to an honors college at Ohio State). But, if money is definitely not an issue, you are applying to at least this many schools, and you have a fairly high risk tolerance … AND you don’t take these schools for granted, but put serious effort into the essays etc. … then I’d say a student with your solid record could consider them reasonably safe. The other important factor is that, for anyone very attracted to a top LAC like Amherst or Williams, MHC and Conn College should be very attractive choices. To be a good safety it should not be a very reluctant choice. Personally, I’d be more conservative and consider them “low match”, then maybe consider adding a public LAC like SUNY Geneseo or St. Mary’s College of Maryland as a less expensive less selective alternative that gives you a small college experience. Though, if you are in Ohio, Ohio State still would be cheaper I think.</p>
<p>Haverford by the way is nearly as selective as Bowdoin. Bryn Mawr would be a less selective entry into the same consortium. If money <em>is</em> an issue, also consider adding one or more Midwestern LACs (like Grinnell) that offer merit scholarships.</p>
<p>I think you do have a good list for your qualifications and (assuming your package is well prepared) would expect good outcomes for you.</p>
<p>Umm, Davidson is NOT a safety for you… that I am pretty sure of. Duke and Williams MIGHT be matches but I would be highly surprised. I am assuming you have 2250+ 4.0 good ECs… even so, I stand by my statement.</p>
<p>Thanks tk21769. I am instate for Ohio State, expect to get into honors college. I would be very happy to go to Mount Holyoke or Conn. I’m putting a huge effort into all my applications - not just my favorite, Bowdoin. And what is risk tolerance? </p>
<p>I had no idea about Haverford - I was just guessing. My parents want me to apply to a LAC closer to home and they suggested Haverford.</p>
<p>What do you mean by my number of applications? How many schools I apply to or how many kids from my school apply? Virtually no one from my school will apply to any of the above schools except possibly Williams and Yale. Most top kids from my school go to Cornell, OSU honors, Georgetown, Oberlin, Kenyon, Cal Tech, MIT… not New England for some odd reason.</p>
<p>Not too concerned about money - parents earn around 40 grand a year, so if I get into a LAC, I’ll get pretty good grant aid.</p>
<p>So my revised list is…
High Reach: Yale, Dartmouth
Reach: Williams, Amherst
Low Reach/High Match: Middlebury, Bowdoin, Haverford
Match:Colby, Brandeis
Low Match: Conn College, MHC
Saftey: Ohio State</p>
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<p>By “risk tolerance” I’m referring to how cautious you are in your choices. I’m also referring to how comfortable you are with the schools at the low match or safety end of your list. If you’d really be perfectly o.k. to attend your one true admissions and financial safety, then you usually can afford to focus more on those risky “Hail Mary passes” to super-selective schools. If you are not so sure about that safety, then you probably want more depth and breadth in the middle. </p>
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<p>I was thinking of the number of schools to which YOU apply (but you’re right, if several strong students from your school all apply to the same college, it could reduce each person’s chances there). All things being equal, as you apply to more schools of similar selectivity (if they aren’t completely unrealistic), the odds of being accepted to at least one begin to increase. Up to a point, that is. If you apply to too many, the quality of each app can begin to suffer (or maybe your grades will even begin to suffer). There is no magic number for how many applications. My personal preference for most good students is about 6-8. More than about 10-12, and it can start to look like the applicant does not know what s/he wants, or is desperate for the kind of school that is really out of reach.</p>
<p>I think your list looks pretty good. If you were my daughter, I might advise you to lop off a couple to make it easier to focus on the others. So for example, if Bowdoin really is your favorite, why Yale? It’s more selective than Bowdoin and ridiculously reach-y for almost everyone without hooks. Dartmouth, Williams and Amherst also are more selective than Bowdoin (though at least they are more similar to Bowdoin than Yale is.) There is no law saying you have to apply to the most selective schools that might possibly accept you, so if you prefer one that is slightly less selective, why not drop one or more of the more selective ones?</p>
<p>sara, I’d suggest a list that looks more like the following:</p>
<p>High Reach: Williams, Amherst
Low Reach: Middlebury, Bowdoin, Haverford
Match: Colby (+ Bates or Bryn Mawr … or Grinnell as a substitute for any in this row)
Low Match: Conn College, MHC
Saftey: Ohio State</p>
<p>This reduces your list to 10. It removes the larger schools to focus exclusively on LACs (assuming that’s what you really want, i.e. schools like Bowdoin). It removes 2 schools that are not only larger but also more selective than your favorite. It substitutes one more LAC (either one like Bowdoin or one like Haverford … or Grinnell) for Brandeis.</p>
<p>Advantages of Grinnell: In my opinion, academically it’s as strong as almost any of these schools, and probably a little more so than Colby or Bates. It has superior facilities and a lot of money. It offers merit scholarships. It may save your family some transportation costs, too. It seems to have a less preppy more intellectual atmosphere than your other options, which could be good or bad depending on what you want.</p>
<p>Wow, tk21769. You have helped so much. I don’t really want to apply to Yale at all - pressure from my parents to apply to an Ivy. I want a LAC in New England… that’s pretty much my guidelines. They want the best possible education. I like Dartmouth, but I don’t think I would be happy at Yale. We’re visiting in two weeks, so hopefully they will consider Dartmouth as the one Ivy that I’ll apply to. </p>
<p>I’ve never considered Grinnell simply because it is not in New England, but I will consider it. My parents are from New England, and plan to move back there, so transportation costs would end up being greater. Colleges in PA are ideal because they are in between New England and Ohio. However, I disliked Swarthmore and am ambivalent about Haverford. The list of colleges that you recommend is just about right for me. I think that I will probably replace Haverford with a different match school, and look into another match to make it 10 colleges.</p>
<p>tk21769 are you a counselor? You are very knowledgeable about this process.</p>
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<p>Haha! No, I’m just fairly old. But you’re welcome to send me a check!</p>
<p>Anyway, my family roots are in New England too, so I understand the appeal. Yale is a wonderful school, without question. The campus itself is gorgeous (if you like Gothic architecture) … but New Haven is, uh, not so gorgeous. Take it from a parent, the fastest, easiest way to get the Yale monkey off your back is to bring up safety concerns.
[Murder Rate in New Haven UP 60%](<a href=“ConnCon: Murder Rate in New Haven UP 60%”>http://conncon.blogspot.com/2006/12/murder-rate-in-new-haven-up-60.html</a>)</p>
<p>You can get a great education at any of the schools on your list. But it does look like Dartmouth would be a better fit for you than Yale, if only to judge by the other schools that appeal to you. If you want another arrow in your quiver to bring your parents around, then show them this:
[Best</a> Ivy League Schools By Salary Potential](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/ivy-league-schools.asp]Best”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/ivy-league-schools.asp)</p>
<p>Just keep in mind, Dartmouth is terribly selective too and the whole process is very fickle. But if you build a list around good schools with similar features, across a broad range of selectivity, you are bound to get a good outcome. Your parents should be very pleased if Bowdoin, Middlebury, Mount Holyoke - any of these schools - admits you with a good aid package. And, if you have any intention of going on for a graduate degree, the top LACs as a class generally seem to have a better track record than universities for both professional school placements and for PhD completions.<br>
[The</a> Wall Street Journal Classroom Edition - “Feeder” Schools](<a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights)
[COLLEGE</a> PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]COLLEGE”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>
<p>So I think I’m going to try and organize mine:</p>
<p>HIGH Reaches: Stanford, Brown
Ordinary Reach: Northwestern, University of Chicago
High/Mid Targets: Brandeis, Boston College
Safeties: Seattle University</p>
<p>Stats:
SAT - 2100
GPA - 4.0 UW
Rank - 3 out of 475
AP classes - 8
ECs - Interned at national park for one summer, had a leading role in a Native American play, worked with my tribe in a project to restore California Condors to their native lands, founder + pres. of Environmental Club (which organizes school sustainability projects + participation in sustainability fairs, also works with local state university), editor of school newspaper for three years
Gender: Male
Race: Native American (and a tribal ID card to prove it)</p>
<p>Wow, a lot of you guys are looking at some very selective schools</p>
<p>I’m not categorizing mine yet, I’ll wait until my next set of SAT scores come in. Here’s the list:</p>
<p>U Florida, Florida State, U Miami, Clemson, U Georgia, Arizona State, U South Carolina, U Texas, maybe U Alabama?</p>
<p>how is williams a match?</p>
<p>Anyways here is my abridged list</p>
<p>Upenn
Brown
Yale</p>
<p>NW
Duke
JH
UC</p>
<p>Illinios
WUStL</p>
<p>(quote)</p>
<p><<<<So I think I’m going to try and organize mine:</p>
<p>HIGH Reaches: Stanford, Brown
Ordinary Reach: Northwestern, University of Chicago
High/Mid Targets: Brandeis, Boston College
Safeties: Seattle University</p>
<p>Stats:
SAT - 2100
GPA - 4.0 UW
Rank - 3 out of 475
AP classes - 8
ECs - Interned at national park for one summer, had a leading role in a Native American play, worked with my tribe in a project to restore California Condors to their native lands, founder + pres. of Environmental Club (which organizes school sustainability projects + participation in sustainability fairs, also works with local state university), editor of school newspaper for three years
Gender: Male
Race: Native American (and a tribal ID card to prove it) >>>></p>
<p>What? With those stats and being native american, you will get into probably at least 2 of HPYSM
Nothing is really going to be a reach for you…</p>
<p>Jaddua, your list looks like it’s coming together.<br>
I think you have them in about the right order. There is a broad enough range that, especially if you add one or two in the middle zone, you and sara12 ought to be exchanging at least a couple of virtual high fives this time next year.</p>
<p>In your case though, I’m wondering why you chose these particular schools. What majors appeal to you? You sound like an outdoorsy Environmental Science person. If so, I could recommend several additional schools that might work very well for you.</p>
<p>I’m not knocking your choices. Chicago is my own alma mater and I think it’s terrific. However, your interests sound a little like my own son’s. Chicago would not have been my idea of a good fit for him. On the other hand, if you are already in the rural West and want more of an urban/suburban experience in College, the schools on your list might be just right.</p>
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<p>That may be true, but it’s risky to over-estimate the value of hooks. More importantly, although HYPSM are all fine schools, they are not necessarily the best choices for every student who can get into them.</p>