<p>This is hearsay, since my kids did NOT attend ND. My friends’ S graduated from there. The 1st year, they had a lot of loans. As ND got to know S & he got more active in ND activities, they gave more grants & scholarships & fewer loans. By his 4th year (when he was a senior), he got NO loans, all grants & scholarships. </p>
<p>Not sure how much the family situation factored in, as he had two brothers & the family owned their own business and had a lot of business loans. The family felt that their S getting very actively involved in ND improved his FA package.</p>
<p>Another person I know who is there applied for FA (she had a sib in college and another in law school). She was only awarded work study and loans. Didn’t hear what her EFC was.</p>
<p>Could anyone answer my following questions?
How does ND treat students with EFC=0? Do those students have the same FA components?(the same amount of loans, grants, and self-study) or is the financial aid package merit-based?(students with high academic achievements get better packages with less loans and more grants)?
Are there a significant number of low-income students on campus? What has ND done to improve its social-economic diversity?</p>
<p>I also would like to know, pnptruong, because my EFC was 0 as well. I don’t think ND does anything differently for merit (other than Hesburgh-Yusko Scholars). I’m assuming that only need is considered regarding financial aid, and not merit.</p>
<p>^^I believe that merit is considered along with financial need. In other words, if you have high financial need and your merit(academics, etc) is outstanding as well, the better your financial package. And by better, hopefully it means that you will have more grants and scholarships as opposed to work study and loans. The Hesbugh program is new and is the only program offered to students based entirely on merit (coorect me if I’m wrong). </p>
<p>As to the poster that indicated friends whose student was able to garner better finanical aid as time passed based on involvement at the school, that is a possibility as well. It is also possible that the student proved grade wise (at ND) along with the student’s need, that the financial aid turned around to more scholarships and grants by that student’s sr year at ND. But, again, the student had financial need to begin with–then the student’s merit was re-evaluated while at ND.</p>
<p>you may be wrong, ND AL . . . depending on how you wish to define “program”. ND is a private school, and can define ( or NOT define ) these things as they wish. as you allude, and even further - there are merit based things that ND does do. they are not in the literature, because they don’t wish them to be, and they don’t have to do what they do not wish to do. i would encourage all interested parties to pursue opportunities at ND as diligently and earnestly as they can. impress somebody. you may be surprised.</p>
<p>And that is exactly what I said–perhaps the student was offered more scholarship money because of grades–according to HIMom’s post, this particular student was obviously identified for financial need.</p>
<p>Perhaps, you would care to elaborate on some of the scholarships that you are alluding to that have no ties to financial need?? Hesburgh right now, and I am sure that there are smaller offerings based on student performance at ND. Others might want to know about these???</p>
<p>Yes, ND is a private school and can do just about anything it wants to do with regards to scholarship. However, from what I have seen, Hesburgh seems to be the only program right now that is purely merit based that offers a substantial scholarship, well over half of a year’s tuition?? </p>
<p>Would love for you to share with others just what these “secret” scholarships might be!</p>
<p>ND AL, what you’ve said regarding merit is that “it means that you will have more grants and scholarships as opposed to work study and loans”. Not sure how you’ve convinced yourself that it must be only this, other than your own experience and parroting ND financial aid documentation. Our experience has been similar to Bitti1; there are optional components of ND aid package that are not documented and not necessarily need-based. I do not care to elaborate further, for two reasons. I am not sure how big a group this represents, and don’t want to narrow the spotlight. Also, ND is making a choice to keep this aid low key, and I will respect that. My point is only to suggest that very high stats students not write off ND due to EFC. Apply and wait for the FA package, you never know.</p>
<p>Great forum for parents who have an accepted (2014) kid… who just came home last night from a visit to a friend in her freshman year at ND. This is all very interesting having gone through this process with a senior, older daughter, at UPenn (got $40,000 in outright grant and scholarship $$ for her senior year). I’m beginning to think that the Ivy’s have gotten it down and that ND hasn’t entirely bought into the notion that loans are a large and heavy weight around the kid’s ankles, as well as the parents, after graduation, and not “aid.” I have always dreamed about a kid of mine going to ND, but it ultimately will come down to who steps up. I just wish they’d get through this process earlier in the game, having been accepted in mid-December.</p>
<p>^^^I have always wondered how colleges justified loans, no matter how low the interest rate, into a financial “aid” process? I thought aid meant something you did not owe anyone; aid was something you did not have to repay! Have to agree with your post…</p>
<p>jweiss. not sure what you mean exactly. our kid had acceptances at a couple ivies, as well as u-chicago and MIT. ND’s final aid package ( not loans ) blew all of them away in the end. from our test group of n-1, ND “has gotten it down” just fine. i will stand by my previous point - make a strong application, show strong and earnest interest and desire, impress somebody, and you may be surprised.</p>
<p>a previous poster made mention to the effect that they saw “little point” in attending an invite-only paid-for function for accepted applicants - that is not gonna impress anybody, and that student , IMHO, should not be surprised if their aid package is lesser. IMHO, that is a right fine way of doing things on ND’s part. it’s not what ND can do for the kid, it is what the kid can do for themselves thru ( and as a part of ) ND. a " what’s the point / what’s in it for me " attitude is not what ND is about. </p>
<p>Found this page–maybe it will help someone!</p>
<p>And not to “parrot” what ND says, but it does appear that ALL aid is based on financial need; if you do not qualify for need, I am going to assume that the only significant scholarships might be Hesburgh? I am sure there are those scholarships and grants that might be lesser in value, but don’t you have to provide some level of financial need??? What if you have no demonstated financial need; you can afford to pay full price? Does ND still offer these scholarships and grants based on merit alone???</p>
<p>Not to be nosy bitti–but can you elaborate as to whether any of what I just asked fits your student’s profile? Is ND awarding substantial money (not loans or work study) to students that do not FIRST have some level of demonstrated need? </p>
<p>I will also note that I am sure things have changed since when our student applied and was accepted 4 years ago. The economy was vastly different, as well as applications. That application year was very brutal for many kids with or without financial need.</p>
<p>ND AL. i do not know the answer to your questions. </p>
<p>i think tjd summarized my comfort level past that, in his/hers last couple sentences. i will suggest that it doesn’t matter, other than as an academic issue. ND will find the student on these low-key things, there is no application process past the normal admittance procedure. </p>
<p>as tjd says, this is obviously how ND wishes to play this. thus, i think it best to apply, and then wait and see and not make a decision until may 1. hard to do, believe me i know. and, not to beat a dead horse, but if they invite your student to a function, for goodness sake GO, and present yourself well. ND is a small school, and a selective one, and they know what they are looking for and indeedthey look for it individually - an " i don’t see the point" attitude on the part of the student may well be met in kind from the school, and IMHO thank goodness for that. </p>
<p>sorry i cannot be of more help. best of luck to you.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply! I understand that ND is a private school and that it can do what it wants with regard to attracting top students. However, others may want to know if they are additional ways of garnering scholarships that are NOT need based; esp considering that all web sites indicate there must be some level of demonstrated need. I would hope that ND could be honest enough. In our situation almost 4 years ago, we had NO demonstrated financial need. We pay full fare, even tho, at the time student was identified as Reilly Scholar, National Merit Finalist (ND does not participate in this program), etc. There have been no further attempts to update financial profile as there have been no changes–full fare it is. Certainly, things could have likely changed/been updated to compete with other schools since our student first applied. There could be scholarships/etc that are awarded to students after completing a semester or 2 on campus based on grades, ECs, etc. But, I highly doubt that these are very substantial–ones that could cover a whole year/semester of tuition. Again, I am doubting no one as certainly there could be a benefactor or two that may indeed be paying a student’s way and it is strictly based on merit; the student could have paid full fare, but because they were such an outstanding student, benefactor felt so inclined to pay their way.</p>
<p>I am only commenting on this for future applicants. I am not trying to be nosey, but others may want to know that indeed there are some scholarships (NOT based on need, and NOT Hesburgh) that are available. And, applicants/students may want to know that if they perform well after being a student at ND and are involved in activities, leadership, that it may be worth their while to inquire about such programs–again, if they do not involve demonstrated financial need. I hope this is the case with ND so that more top students will choose ND and obviously feel like loans, etc. are not the only way ND uses its money. There are top students out there who can afford to pay full fare, yet should be rewarded for doing well up to this point, MERIT awards only. But, right now, ND continues to maintain the need-based issue (yes, I am parroting what the website says!). Maybe someone from Finance office will read all of this and comment…</p>
<p>keep in mind, “need” at ND is determined by them, not FAFSA or anybody else. in each student’s case need is whatever ND decides to make it ( or not ).</p>
<p>also, applying and waiting to see what happens should not scare off people - that is what i am suggesting, along with continuing to present to ND as earnest, interested, and valuable. </p>
<p>finally, there are LOT of extremely qualified students at ND. you mention natl merit finalists - a fine acheivement, but there are plenty of natl merit scholars at the school as well. as tjd intimated, the beam could well be tight, and bar quite high. i certainly sense no “dishonesty”. they are a private school, and they are very very good at knowing who and what they want, and how best to get it and they are free to do so. they have all the leeway in the world in defining many of these concepts. this is my experience. not everybody has to agree with it, or like it - but it seems to work pretty well. </p>
<p>Maybe dishonest is not the right word–and again, I understand they are a private school. Maybe less than forthcoming might be a better use of wording. And, oh yes, I am well aware of the many talented and top students that are enrolled at ND.</p>
<p>And by the way, we just made our last tuition payment, since we have a graduating senior! I was hoping to pass along info to other students that both you and tjd alluded to; but, if it is confidential, so be it.</p>
<p>I suppose info gleaned from your posts indicate that top students should inquire, and inquire DEEP. And further, once you have arrived on campus, continue to delve deep with regards to money even if you are a full pay???</p>
<p>if invited to a weekend of top students, for goodness sake GO !! and when you do, know that people are watching you, as a top potential student, as much as you are looking at the school. maybe more. they are very good at it. </p>
<p>WORK WITH a fin-aide officer. make an appt. showing up counts for something in this world. </p>
<p>thank you for respecting the confidentiality issue. good luck to all.</p>
<p>If you read through the University responses to Business Week (ND just named #1 undergrad business school in the country for 2010), it indicates a great deal of merit money is provided to business students. Does anyone know if this is the case, and if so, does it necessitate a FAFSA form and some type of need in addition to merit?
The responses printed by Business Week seem different than the main contention that all aid is need based. Perhaps these are private scholarships underwritten by employers who recruit on campus. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>numbersguy–I have no idea. I do know that an awful lot of research on campus is funded by private companies. It would make sense if they do the same thing with regards to funding scholarships.</p>
<p>ND Al, you may well be right about there being at least “some” need required, because once there is some need, it opens wide the door for the interpretation of that need. And this allows ND to continue to adhere to the official position that all aid (pre-Hesburgh-Yusko) is need-based, presumably because this better aligns with their mission and self-image. </p>
<p>Prior to receiving ND FA offer, we did not expect D to end up at Notre Dame, for financial reasons. I was not comfortable with our EFC. She had merit-based offers that were “good enough” from other top 20 schools, as well as the well-regarding state school. We’d received the preliminary FA documentation from ND, which described how an ND education might be financed (contributions from relatives was a red flag), and how loans and work study were important components of the package. And posts on this forum suggested ND aid was so-so. But D was invited to Reilly weekend, and went. The FA package we received subsequently was very good. </p>
<p>For “very desirable” students that may be wavering over whether to apply to ND, I’ll pass along some 3rd-hand information, with the caveat that I have no way of knowing if it is true. I was talking to an acquaintance at church recently, an ND alum who is still quite actively involved with the school. He knew our story from previous conversation - D accepted to ND, didn’t expect to go, got a much better than expected FA package - and, since he’d not been aware of such a thing, decided to follow up with a friend in the development (I think) office. What he was told is that ND Admissions has been given the power to designate a certain number of admits, and to do whatever it takes financially to bring them in. </p>
<p>If this is true, it might be Reilly, or even a subset of Reilly with additional desirability characteristics that ND has identified. Don’t know. But had ND offered an aid package that met our EFC, without any loans or work study (not aid, IMO), D would likely have ended up elsewhere. She is happily at ND.</p>