<p>I don't think both H and Y really care where you have applied. My son applied to both H and Y regular, and he told both interviewers that he had got into S already in EA. Both H and Y accepted him anyway. The H interviewer even commented that what a wonderful school S is and he did not know about S to well since he was from mid-west. We have no legacy or whatsoever, and we are Asians.</p>
<p>pmyen:</p>
<p>You are absolutely right that SATs are not very good at differentiating between the very good and the stellar. There are some 7th and 8th graders who get perfect scores on the SATs; but they are not at the same level as the perfect scorers who apply to Harvard in their junior or senior years. The SATs cannot differentiate between the two groups.</p>
<p>ELMNOP:
[quote]
We don't get more than 1 every couple of years. But I do think that they leave a lot of excellent fruit unpicked.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Agree!</p>
<p>Not only do admissions vary yearly, based on the overall class that an adcom attempts to put together, but the adcoms at each university differ in how they look at applications. For example, if your ec is music, that will probably get you further with admissions at one college than another. Also, each has a different historical relationship with various high schools. They may see a particular high school as a great source of science stars, based on past experience with graduates of that school, or a different high school as one that produces students who are a particularly good fit for the campus culture.
All of those factors are beyond a student's control, which is why no one should feel entitled to get into any particular university based on stats, though someone may certainly feel entitled to get into an excellent university based on an excellent performance in high school. And, the person described in the orginal post did, indeed, get into excellent universities.</p>
<p>So where did this person end up? I'd put my money on Princeton, since anyone applying to every Ivy and only Ivies even though they have nothing in common but their athletic conference and prestige, would probably choose the university on the list with the highest USNWR ranking. </p>
<p>Did I guess correctly?</p>
<p>Putting a class together is an art ... in the truest sense. Many schools pride themselves on assembling a class that is diverse in terms of interests, ideas, talents, experiences, etc. H & Y are especially fortunate in that they attract some of the most amazing applicants in the world. What a joy it must be to create such a work of art as can be made from the raw material in H & Y's applicant pools! I am guessing no one gets into H & Y who doesn't "belong." NO ONE can know whether or not they will be selected to be a part of a particular class at H & Y (as well as at many other selective schools). There are no sinister motives ... it is what it is ... art, not science.</p>
<p>I can understand you friend's disappointment at working so very hard, having all the right stuff, and still not getting into the schools she thinks she really wants most. Unfortunately, that's the way it works ... and no, it's not some evil plot against the common man (or woman). I would never put her down for having feelings of disappointment. However, she DID get into several really excellent schools ... she sounds like an amazing person & she was chosen by those schools because of her talents & accomplishments. When one door closes, another opens ... she will have an incredible experience in college, and she will soon forget about H & Y. Then again, there is always grad school :)!</p>
<p>It's interesting reading this thread together with the Jian Li thread. He did not get into Princeton but got into Yale, and feels he was shafted. The OP's friend did not get into Yale or Harvard but got into Princeton and the OP seems to think a huge mistake was made by H & Y. Hmmmm....</p>
<p>Time to break out into song: "There's a place for us, somewhere a place for us..."</p>
<p>"However, every legacy that I've seen get in could have gotten in on their own merits, and were by far and away extremely strong candidates even in very strong pools. "</p>
<p>YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING??? EVERY LEGACY- well that is absolutely not my experience with fellow students. That statement is a joke. Some yes but EVERY - oh please.</p>
<p>She is going to Cornell. Her father is a manager of 2 grocery stores and her mother is a second grade teacher. That is all I know.</p>
<p>I think the lesson learned by your friend (maybe it's his/her first lesson in this) is that life isn't fair. The "best" people don't get elected president, don't get into Harvard, don't win American Idol. Harsh reality. Even worse, sometimes the biggest idiots end up being your boss. :eek:</p>
<p>There is, however, more than one way to skin a cat. Thank goodness for alternatives.</p>
<p>Doubleplay that is so true. I am sure she will do something to distinguish herself at Cornell.</p>
<p>I notice people here keep bagging on the girl for applying to all eight Ivies. While I think that was a bit much of her, I also think it's ridiculous to claim that somebody who applies to, say, both Columbia and Dartmouth is shallow. What if she simply likes MANY things and is the type of kid that can be happy pretty much anywhere and just figured she may as well go for being happy at a place with a nice name? There are people that enjoy many things and can mold to pretty much any situation. It doesn't mean they're fake.</p>
<p>Repeating my statement, "However, every legacy that I've seen get in could have gotten in on their own merits, and were by far and away extremely strong candidates even in very strong pools," and emphasizing that I don't know every legacy, and can't speak for every legacy -- just the ones whom I know who have admitted in recent years and when I was in college.</p>
<p>I also know legacies who were rejected from Harvard despite having records that would get them into many other top universities in the country.</p>
<p>So it goes....</p>
<p>^^^Agree with dis-grace. While applying to all eight Ivies just because they're Ivies is an admissions strategy that lacks depth, kids who are targeting highly selective schools absolutely must cast a wide net. I'm sure there are applicants out there who can articulate good reasons for applying to both Columbia and Dartmouth.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Harvard does not ask this information. It didn't when I applied decades ago. It doesn't now.
[/quote]
When I applied it was to Radcliffe, not Harvard. And they did ask, because I remember answering "x, y and z, but Harvard is my first choice."</p>
<p>1970 or before? Well things have changed and admissions have changed too.</p>
<p>Oh well... there's always that crapshoot element.</p>
<p>Without getting too afar from the original posting, there are two categories of legacies. One category has the run of the mill legacies of alumni who may donate $100 to $1000/year. The other catetory has the development cases in which families are likely to give or have given $1,000,000 or more per year. Legacy gives little advantage in the first category as the university gains little and risks little for not admitting such students. Those legacies often get in without any significant advantage from their legacy status. Probably indistinguishable from other admits. The other category is somewhat different. George W had a three generation legacy AND a father who was a prominent congressman at the time he applied. Don't know how much the family donated over the years. In his case, a C average at Andover and 1200 on the SATs were enough to get him into Yale. My high school usually sent 10 students per year to Harvard-all seemed to be deserving but as alluded by ellemenope, there also were a large number of very good unpicked fruit. Most of them were admitted to other Ivies, MIT, or top LACs. I do recall one exception in my younger brother's class. One of his classmates who had an above average but not outstanding academic record, was accepted by Harvard. His father had donated one million dollars to Harvard the year before, which was an very large sum of money 30+ years ago. Cannot say how that money was used. However, if it hypothetically were used for financial aid, it would have covered the entire tuition for 50 students (at $5000/year back then). Soemone could cynically say that the father bought his son's admission to Harvard. From the institution's point of view, the gift enabled 50 outstanding students to attend Harvard without debt. I know the equation is a very hypothetical one but I use it only to illustrate that developmental admissions can serve the greater good of the institution even if it means "lowering" the standards of admission for an individual student. I believe these legacies generally are rare at top institutions but come to attention because they are so exceptional and glaring.</p>
<p>" I believe these legacies generally are rare at top institutions but come to attention because they are so exceptional and glaring."</p>
<p>Probably true. Also it's important to recognize that places like Harvard still don't accept students who can't handle the workload. Virtually all students graduate including the legacies of multimillionaire donor parents. Even George Bush managed to graduate from Yale.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Without getting too afar from the original posting, there are two categories of legacies. One category has the run of the mill legacies of alumni who may donate $100 to $1000/year. The other catetory has the development cases in which families are likely to give or have given $1,000,000 or more per year. Legacy gives little advantage in the first category as the university gains little and risks little for not admitting such these students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I was under the impression that legacies (even those whose families have not been substantial contributors) and developmental admits were members of two distinct categories of applicants, and that membership in either category would give an applicant an admissions boost. You seem to be saying that plain old legacy without big money attached no longer has value in the admissions game. Do you have any data to back that up?</p>
<p>Considering these schools have like 20,000 applicants for 2,000 slots, I'm not really sure why there's any question here. Getting into any one of HYP is extremely rare, and getting into two, or all three, is extraordinarily rare really. You will see many cases around this board and in general of kids who gain acceptance to one but not the other two. The other two did not have space in their class for them. It is really that simple. They may select who they wish to select, it is not really up to us to judge their choices considering it is their school. Either they are so great or they aren't, which is it? I get kind of tired of hearing it because it makes no sense to send in an application, implying that you agree with their school and admissions criteria, fully understanding 90% of applicants are rejected, and then turn around and say that it's so unfair and they are such a bad school with bad admissions practices. Obviously they haven't slid too far downhill or people wouldn't have been obsessing about it for 7 pages. </p>
<p>But really, people are given so much and then it's always what they didn't get. I didn't even care so much where I went to college, I am so grateful to have the chance and then to have the luxury of picking between schools is way more than many people get. </p>
<p>BTW, I was rejected from all three this year ;) I wasn't happy about it obviously, but that's life, and I got into all the other schools I applied to (all state schools, which is fine because I honestly probably wouldn't have like the weather in the northeast lol). A couple weeks later I spent an exciting weekend at the accepted student's day at the top two choices. That Monday, I found out that my sister lost her best friend in a campus shooting. Puts it into perspective. You can obsess over the perceived "unfairness" in the admissions practices at HYP or you can accept that they obviously somehow know what they're doing because apparently 20,000 people still want to go there. It's probably not really worth your time either way, but I mean, maybe it is if that's your thing. I honestly couldn't say, some people like civil war history and some people like analyzing HYP admissions I guess.</p>
<p>"A couple weeks later I spent an exciting weekend at the accepted student's day at the top two choices.That Monday, I found out that my sister lost her best friend in a campus shooting. "</p>
<p>Yes, that does put everything into perspective. Thank you for posting that. My condolences to everyone affected by the tragedy.</p>