<p>Now here is something that has been on my mind for a while. Given that colleges want to admit only the top-notch leaders with a passion to show, what happens to the passion of these kids, say after the first semester, or in their subsequent years? Do these colleges enhance these passions or numb them? Do these colleges churn out 2000 “leaders” every year, passionately following their interests they declared 4 years ago?</p>
<p>Just musing aloud.</p>
<p>In answer to your question, ruar, here’s what I can tell you about my alma mater: Despite not having sports scholarships, Harvard has more NCAA division 1 teams than does any other college; it literally has hundreds of student-run clubs including a daily newspaper, a weekly newspaper, a humor magazine, a literary journal and also something like 60 student performances a year. Harvard doesn’t have a journalism program or a theater major.</p>
<p>Phillips Brooks House is the "PBHA is a student-run, staff supported public service/social action organization at Harvard College providing a variety of services to the Greater Boston community. … Every year over 1,400 volunteers participate in over 85 PBHA programs each year. "</p>
<p>[Phillips</a> Brooks House Association](<a href=“http://pbha.org/]Phillips”>http://pbha.org/)</p>
<p>I am president of the board of one local organization, chair of another local organization, on two other local boards, active in my alum association, and participated in 5 community theater productions in the past year. I think that my activity level is pretty typical of alums who are empty nesters. When my kids were at home, I was on a national board, co-chaired a committee for a national organization and was an officer in my kids’ school’s parent organization.</p>
<p>Harvard enhanced my passions by exposing me to people who were very active and enthusiastic about causes that I hadn’t before considered being involved in. I was active before college, and became more active during and after college.</p>
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<p>No doubt Harvard is a fabulous place, but almost every single college I’ve looked into or taught at boasts of numerous publications, sports, volunteer clubs and service, exchanges, and 100s of student clubs and activities. Such is college life.</p>
<p>Actually, most colleges don’t have hundreds of clubs. Harvard has 6,650 undergrads and 400 student-run clubs, many of which operate at the level that professionals would operate. Most colleges also don’t have students vying to do things like run a daily newspaper --including supervising the newspaper’s printing operations --even though students don’t get paid for doing that and don’t get course credit for doing that.</p>
<p>Most colleges don’t have students whose idea of fun is to, for instance, stage and direct Hamlet (as a person a few classes behind me at Harvard did) for fun even though their school doesn’t have a drama or theater major or organize a film series of foreign films (as someone did when I was at Harvard, introducing me to the films of Japanese great director Akira Kurosawa)</p>
<p>Most colleges don’t have students who in their spare time are running community service activities such as: </p>
<p>"We tutor male and female inmates at a medium security prison, supplementing their classroom work with individualized academic attention. We help inmates with reading (from sounding out words to discussing political theory), writing (from subject-verb agreement to effective prose), and math (from addition to calculus). We lead some computer use and occasionally offer special classes. "</p>
<p>"James Summer Shelter is a student-run transitional program for 12 homeless men and women. We strive to create a stable, comfortable, and friendly environment for our guests by providing them with 3 meals a day and permanent beds for the duration of our seven-week program. "</p>
<p>“Environmental Education is an after-school program working with middle school children (grades 6-8) in Boston Public Schools. EnviroEd’s mission is to educate children about the environment and foster an appreciation for the natural world in which we live. The EnviroEd program gives undergraduate volunteers the opportunity to work with the same group of students throughout 2, 10-week semesters, leading up to a final presentation to the school community.”</p>
<p>Just a few of the 86 student-run programs at Phillips Brooks House at Harvard.</p>
<p>When I taught at a public university, I was surprised at how much work faculty and faculty advisors did with so-called student organizations, and how we had to literally beg students to participate in organizations – even those related directly to their majors. In college, the student organizations that I was involved with were truly student -run and student were eager to be involved. In fact, at the most popular organizations, students had to compete with each other to be able to be involved.</p>
<p>Well, maybe not, NSM, but most colleges have dozens of student organizations covering a wide range of activities and interests. That is the important thing to discuss, not whether Harvard has more than others (says one Harvard alumna to another).</p>
<p>This means that students admitted to colleges continue to pursue their passion and/or develop new ones. I would never have guessed that my S would become interested in his EC, much less become a co-founder of a group (still going strong though the co-founders have graduated).</p>
<p>But the “leader” description is misleading. It need not mean people who will end up as leading figures in politics, academia, the arts, community service. It can, and usually does , mean student who are self-motivated and show initiative. S1 was part of a discussion group (and wrote his essay about it); he also gained a brown belt in karate, which meant many years of studying for it. He was not a “leader” in the common sense of the word, but did well by the college admissions process.</p>
<p>"But the “leader” description is misleading. It need not mean people who will end up as leading figures in politics, academia, the arts, community service. "</p>
<p>While obviously all alums aren’t going to end up as leaders on the national or international level, I think that most alums do end up doing some kind of leadership in their own communities even if that’s running a local club, volunteer group or political organization. </p>
<p>I do not enjoy running things, but have ended up running a lot of committees and heading community organizations because other people ask me to because they don’t know how to do some of the things that they want done, and that I can do.</p>
<p>“Harvard has more NCAA division 1 teams than does any other college”
I don’t think so. Stanford has that honor.</p>
<p>NSM. You are a leader in your community. Great. It cannot be true of each and every alum of a top university, even Harvard. So please don’t extrapolate your experience and make it a universal yardstick. H and I are both Harvard alums. We consider ourselves good citizens of our community. Not leaders.</p>
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<p>Actually, I just checked. The question was not about quality or relevance; it was about quantity. </p>
<p>Although Harvard might not have the 41 Div I teams it loves to report, the H sites still reports 20 Men and 19 Women teams. It is also possible that the remaining two are coed sports. </p>
<p>[GoCrimson.com[/url</a>]
or
<a href=“http://www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/41_Reasons_to_Choose_Harvard_2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.gocrimson.com/information/recruiting/41_Reasons_to_Choose_Harvard_2009.pdf](<a href=“http://www.gocrimson.com/information/]GoCrimson.com[/url”>http://www.gocrimson.com/information/)</a></p>
<p>On the other hand, Stanford offers 34 varsity sports—18 for women, 15 for men and one coed—plus 20 club sports. In addition, more than 9,000 students, faculty and staff participate each year in intramural sports. Each quarter, approximately 2,000 students enroll in 100 physical education courses, which include 30 different activities.</p>
<p>[Cardinal</a> Athletics: Stanford University Facts](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/about/facts/athletics.html]Cardinal”>http://www.stanford.edu/about/facts/athletics.html)</p>
<p>Cardinal Athletics</p>
<p>Stanford promotes excellence in both academics and athletics. Stanford has won the Directors’ Cup, which honors the most successful program in NCAA Division I sports, the last 15 years. In 2008-09. Stanford won two national team championships and had eight teams in the top five and 17 in the top 10. Forty-nine athletes and coaches also represented Stanford at the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing. Stanford offers about 300 athletic scholarships. About 800 students participate in intercollegiate sports.</p>
<p>Stanford employs some 100 coaches and assistants. Ten current coaches have led their teams to one or more NCAA titles. Stanford maintains one million gross feet of indoor facilities and 94 acres of outdoor fields. Among Stanford’s facilities are the 50,000-seat Stanford Stadium; 6,786-yard Stanford Golf Course; the 7,000-seat Maples Pavilion; the 4,000- seat Sunken Diamond; the 14- court Taube Family Tennis Stadium; and the 2,500-seat, four- pool Avery Aquatic Complex.</p>
<p>The Department of Athletics offers 34 varsity sports—18 for women, 15 for men and one coed—plus 20 club sports. In addition, more than 9,000 students, faculty and staff participate each year in intramural sports. Each quarter, approximately 2,000 students enroll in 100 physical education courses, which include 30 different activities.</p>
<p>“NSM. You are a leader in your community. Great. It cannot be true of each and every alum of a top university, even Harvard. So please don’t extrapolate your experience and make it a universal yardstick. H and I are both Harvard alums. We consider ourselves good citizens of our community. Not leaders.”</p>
<p>I don’t consider myself a leader. I’m head of a couple of local organizations, but it’s not like I’m mayor or a CEO anything. Most Harvard folks I know do have leadership roles in some organizations. I do think that’s pretty typical.</p>
<p>NSM:</p>
<p>You don’t have to go to Harvard or YPS to be able to do things in your community. A lot of it has to do with temperament. Many of the skills that are necessary to be effective can be learned just as well at a public university also. </p>
<p>Statistically it’s impossible for all Harvard grads to be leaders; and statistically, it is impossible for Harvard to admit only potential leaders.
Let’s not scare high schoolers with all this talk of leaders and shakers. It’s not really true. It’s enough for applicants to have excelled academically and have something to contribute to the college community to be competitive for admission. And when they graduate? Some may decide to stay at home and raise their kids. I know some of those.</p>
<p>"You don’t have to go to Harvard or YPS to be able to do things in your community. A lot of it has to do with temperament. Many of the skills that are necessary to be effective can be learned just as well at a public university also. "</p>
<p>I agree that there are plenty of leaders who are alums of other colleges.</p>
<p>I think, however, that colleges that use leadership experience as an admission factor are likely to proportionately produce more leaders than colleges that don’t use leadership as a factor. When I taught at a second tier college, I was surprised at how passive the students were. It was rare to find a student who was willing to take a leadership role in an organization or who assertively implemented their own ideas in campus organizations. I had thought it was just students at that school, but since then, I’ve seen the same thing at other colleges. </p>
<p>“A lot of Harvard people I know (and I know quite a lot) do not occupy leadership positions, nor do they want to.”</p>
<p>Are you really sure that they don’t hold any leadership positions? A lot of people simply don’t talk about the leadership positions that they hold. Unless you’re involved in an organization in which they hold an office, you may not know about that side of them.</p>
<p>Yes, NSM. I am absolutely sure. Especially of the alums who are currently staying at home raising kids. And please, do not condescend. “You may not know that side of them.” Really!!! </p>
<p>As a Harvard Ph.D. and the parent of a Harvard grad, I am very fond of Harvard. But I get a bit tired of relentless Harvard boosterism. I also know enough about other top schools that not every admitted student is a potential leader or wants to be.</p>
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<p>The answer can be boiled down to just a few words - “the rich and famous of the future” - if they know how to id them.</p>
<p>ALRIGHT, can you 2 H alumni take it outside please? NSM, once again, these recent posts don’t sound like the NSM of old. just saying…</p>
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<p>Depends on the school though. Some schools, particularly community and state colleges, have a less lofty mandate; they’re more focused on providing access to higher education to the citizens of a particular geographic region. The community colleges of course have open enrollment and flexible schedules; the state colleges tend to be more focused on stats and in-state status than the holistic approach taken by, say, Wesleyan or that little old private U in Cambridge (Howard?) that incorporates extracurricular activities, for example.</p>
<p>NSM, I have to disagree with most of post #24, including:
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<p>All these activities and much more can be found at the public school my kids attend, as well as many others I am familiar with. And 400 student groups is very small by state school standards, though of course the population is much larger. I assure you that these organizations are completely student-run and I have never heard of faculty being involved in any way. Most college campuses are vibrant places with exactly the same kind of activities going on as those you described taking place at Harvard.</p>
<p>I have a friend who teaches at a somewhat small third tier state university who recently mentioned to me how impressed he was by the many high quality student organizations there were on his campus and with the many community projects in which they were involved. I think one finds amazing students doing amazing things in many places.</p>
<p>Just a point of clarification: Harvard is adding (has added?) theater and film majors, and also visual art major. Drew Faust made a big speech last year about enhancing the arts on campus, and I have heard she wants the campus to have more artsy types to balance all those pre-med, pre-law and pre-business careerists.</p>
<p>I never finished college at all (remember the 60’s anyone?) and am on several boards and do a lot in my community. I am even a leader in that I have initiated organizations. Just for any young people reading this, it is always possible to contribute to one’s community if you want to, and if you are a hard worker and reasonably competent. You certainly don’t have to go to Harvard to do this, or Wesleyan or, in my case, anywhere at all.</p>
<p>menloparkmom:</p>
<p>Sorry!
My main point is to reassure students that they don’t have to be potential world-beaters to be admitted into top schools. This mentality leads to resume padding and exhaustion from trying to be involved in too many ECs for those who can afford to be participating in ECs; it makes those students who need to work at a McDonald’s to earn some money or come home right after school to help their parents feel unqualified to apply to top schools despite stellar academics.</p>