Justifying discriminating against girls in favor of boys for college admissions

Applying to College
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<p>Thoughts? </p>

<p>Universities</a> admit men with lower qualifications than women in order to maintain the right gender ratio. Why aren't men prepared for college? - WSJ.com
from the Wall Street Journal
By RICHARD WHITMIRE
This week, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights announced that it will investigate whether colleges discriminate against women by admitting less qualified men. It will strike many as odd to think that American men would need such a leg up. From the men-only basketball games at the White House to the testosterone club on Wall Street, we seem surrounded by male dominance.</p>

<p>And yet, when looking to America's future—trying to spot the future entrepreneurs and inventors—there's reason to be troubled by the flagging academic performance among men. Nearly 58% of all those earning bachelor's degrees are women. Graduate programs are headed in the same direction, and the gender gaps at community colleges—where 62% of those earning two-year degrees are female—are even wider.</p>

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<p>as the parent of a girl, this whole situation gives me a stomachache…</p>

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<p>I was interested until this line: “But, in truth, it’s really a social consideration. Colleges simply want to avoid approaching the dreaded 60-40 female-male ratio. At that point, men start to take advantage of their scarcity and make social life miserable for the women by becoming “players” on the dating scene.”</p>

<p>I’d like to see his data on this assertion. Sheesh.</p>

<p>Note that this piece is in the Opinions section and the writer is the author of the forthcoming book “Why Boys Fail.”</p>

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<p>“There just aren’t enough highly qualified men to go around. Determining that colleges practice discrimination doesn’t take much detective work. Higher acceptance rates for men show that colleges dig deeper into their applicant pool to find them. The final proof: Freshman class profiles reveal that the women, with their far higher high-school grade point averages, are more academically qualified than the men. Interviews with admissions officers reveal that the girls’ essays sparkle compared to the boys’, and girls far outshine boys in extracurricular activities as well.”</p>

<p>All my life, my parents told me how important learning was. At some point, I started to learn that boys (Men) made more money than women did, and I was naturally upset. I walked up to my father and said plainly: “I want to be better. I want to be and do anything a boy can do, and I want to do it better, and be paid more when I do. And I’m willing to work harder to do it.”</p>

<p>This is still my motto today. When it comes to gender, I think so many women have realized that they could feasibly be an excellent canidate, or good for a job, and still not be hired or paid as much as the male canidate could (even potentially if he has less education.) and the subsequent drive is no doubt a factor for some.</p>

<p>I agree with Rodney, the situation gives me a headache. </p>

<p>I have a younger brother though (he’s in 3rd grade, I’m class of 2010) and I know he has all the same potential I did. It was a matter of my parents encouraging learning, and nuturing that drive, and keeping me at work. I do believe boys and girls have all the same potential, it’s just when and how it’s used.</p>

<p>I point to the parents, obviously…since my mother has learned of several boy’s parents who don’t make their children even do their homework, much less study at all, with a simple shrug, saying: “Boys will be boys. I think they should have fun while it lasts.” </p>

<p>It doesn’t last as long as people seem to think it does.</p>

<p>As an added note, I’m not going to college to meet men. It’s wonderful, and I’d like to, but I’m going for a degree, not a marriage certificate. (Or as they say, my MRS.) BAs, MAs, JDs, DR.'s, and PhD’s last longer than most marriages do… xD. I won’t be worried if I go to a 60/40 school, or even a women’s college.</p>

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<p>Schools that favor males do so to try to make and keep themselves attractive to both genders; they do not want to become all-female.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html&lt;/a&gt;, by Jennifer Britz, dean of admissions and financial aid at Kenyon College, explains why they favor males; she calls it “demographic realities.”</p>

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<p>Um, while this is troubling considering I’m a girl trying to get into a good college, I would hate to go to a school with a 60-40% Female to Male ratio (the trend that it tends to head), so I can see some of the logic here.</p>

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<p>I haven’t ruled out the possibility that the current school system is more rewarding to girls than boys (and other “under-performing” populations), and that for now, good enough is good enough.</p>

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<p>She can turn the table around if she applies as a physics, computer science or engineering major. Qualified girls remain the darlings of adcoms for these fields of study.</p>

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<p>^^yea, if only…key word here is “qualified”…other key word (and more important) is “interested”…no and no…</p>

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<p>OKAY GOING BACK:</p>

<p>But men and women are not the same. At the same levels of education, women remain less inclined to roll the dice on risky business start-ups or to grind out careers in isolated tech labs [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. Revenue generated by women-owned businesses remains less than 5% of all revenue[SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. And while the number of women taking on economically important majors is rising, women still earn only a fifth of the bachelor’s degrees granted in physics, computer science and engineering. </p>

<p>It would be patriotic to report that this discrimination against women is carried out in the national economic interest of boosting graduates in key math and science fields. But, in truth, it’s really a social consideration. Colleges simply want to avoid approaching the dreaded 60-40 female-male ratio. At that point, men start to take advantage of their scarcity and make social life miserable for the women by becoming “players” on the dating scene. [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. </p>

<p>Until the code gets cracked, there’s a national economic interest in keeping those preferences in place—just for a few more years. [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. </p>

<p>WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A SOURCE. DO NOT PASS GO UNTIL YOU CITE. DO NOT COLLECT $200. :/</p>

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<p>I was not happy about this gender balance thing when my d went to school. Then my s came of age and I was fine with it.</p>

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<p>But men and women are not the same. At the same levels of education, women remain less inclined to roll the dice on risky business start-ups or to grind out careers in isolated tech labs [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE].</p>

<p>A-HEM.</p>

<p>"We’ve heard it a million times – that women in business face the ultimate challenge of [by nature] not taking enough risks. Well, turns out that’s not so ture, at least not about women in business.</p>

<p>According to a survey by Boston’s prestigious Simmons School of Management, women business leaders don’t shy from taking risks, but rather take advantage of risky opportunities on a regular basis.</p>

<p>Existing empirical research on gender and risk suggest women are risk-averse, particularly assessments that measure risk through financial resource allocation, and health and safety precautions. But a survey of more than 650 women managers polled during the 2008 Simmons School of Management national leadership conference in Boston revealed that businesswomen are highly likely to take risks related to business or professional opportunities."</p>

<p>[Center</a> for Gender in Organizations : Simmons School of Management](<a href=“http://www.simmons.edu/som/cgo/]Center”>http://www.simmons.edu/som/cgo/) VIA [Women</a> in Business Are Risk Takers | Business Pundit](<a href=“http://www.businesspundit.com/women-in-business-are-risk-takers/]Women”>Women in Business Are Risk Takers)</p>

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<p>Yurtle: you should write a letter to the editor of the WSJ in response…</p>

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<p>i absolutely hate this. but it is so very true
The top 5% of our class(20 kids) has 3 boys
Our class officers are all girls
AP Classes are 70% girls, except Calc…that’s only 60%
We have 26 student organizations. There is one male president.</p>

<p>I see that girls are achieving more and they want balance, but I can’t stand it.</p>

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<p>:)</p>

<p>I just might:</p>

<p>Revenue generated by women-owned businesses remains less than 5% of all revenue[SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. </p>

<p>[Women’s</a> Business Survey Special Report](<a href=“http://www.sbtv.com/Topics/8618]Women’s”>http://www.sbtv.com/Topics/8618) “If women’s owned business in the US ONLY they would have the 5TH LARGEST GDP IN THE WORLD.”</p>

<p>[Women-owned</a> Firms Mean $3 Trillion to US Economy](<a href=“http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/10/10/women-owned-firms-mean-3-trillion-to-us-economy.htm]Women-owned”>Women's Issues)</p>

<p>"Women-owned businesses contribute almost $3 trillion, yes, THREE TRILLION DOLLARS to the US economy and create 23 million jobs, according to a new report just released by the federal Center for Women’s Business Research and Walmart. </p>

<p>“Women-owned firms employ or generate a total of 16 percent of the jobs in our nation’s economy,” said Gwen Martin, Center for Women’s Business Research executive director in a press release.</p>

<p>Approximately 8 percent of the total U.S. labor force work directly for a woman-owned firm. </p>

<p>If women-owned businesses [in the USA] were their own country, they would have the 5th largest GDP in the world, ahead of countries including France, the United Kingdom, and Italy. </p>

<p>If women-owned businesses were their own country, they would have a greater GDP than Canada, India and Vietnam combined. "</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.womensbusinessresearchcenter.org/Data/research/economicimpactstud/econimpactreport-final.pdf[/url]”>http://www.womensbusinessresearchcenter.org/Data/research/economicimpactstud/econimpactreport-final.pdf&lt;/a&gt; The report is here, I just can’t get it to load.</p>

<hr>

<p>“At that point, men start to take advantage of their scarcity and make social life miserable for the women by becoming “players” on the dating scene. [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE].”</p>

<p>As far as I’m concerned, this is purely anecdata. I have seen no studies done to prove that when the gender ration hits 60/40 males become more promiscuous than their counterparts at more equally gender balances schools. </p>

<hr>

<p>"Until the code gets cracked, there’s a national economic interest in keeping those preferences in place—just for a few more years. [SOURCE NEEDS TO BE HERE]. "</p>

<p>This is a mere opinion. All my other sources suggest that MORE women out there would be a great benefit to the economy.</p>

<p>Here’s the original source for Women are Risk-takers in Business: <a href=“http://www.simmons.edu/overview/about/news/press/820.php[/url]”>http://www.simmons.edu/overview/about/news/press/820.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>"The Simmons School of Management the nation’s only business school designed for principled leadership for women, is the leading authority on women, leadership and management. The Center for Gender in Organizations (CGO), the school’s research arm, works to reform organizational effectiveness by strengthening gender equity in the workplace. " </p>

<p>Uh huh. TELL ME MOAR ABOUT WOMEN IN BUSINESS WISE-JOURNALIST MAN. I SPEND ALL MY TIEM IN KITCHEN. I WOULD NOT KNO.</p>

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<p>Yurtle’s comment about mothers having the attitude " ‘boys will be boys’ let them have fun" may be quite significant. Perhaps there is not the necessary urgency to mature and prepare for reality when raising boys. </p>

<p>Parents know girls are going to have to hustle to make it in the adult world, so they may encourage a more serious attitude towards school work. Boys seem to spend so many more hours with video games, watching sports and movies, with fewer expectations of fulfilling personal responsibilities. </p>

<p>Are American moms (and dads) spoiling their sons and keeping them from emotionally maturing as quickly as girls? Is the lack of expectations stifling the boys’ ambition and self-direction? </p>

<p>Just asking…</p>

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<p>I’m biased, but I don’t see it that way. My D is WAY more academically successful than my son, but I’m honesty not sure that it makes her a more likely to be “successful person”. He has other strengths; they are just not rewarded on his report card. My brother and I where similar, I got the MD, but he is the one with the grammy nomination.</p>

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<p>How will the Civil Service Commission decide who is the most qualified to be admitted? All I’ve heard during my time on CC is that top test scores, GPA, and class rank do not mean automatic admittance, there are many other factors. Schools want diversity - ethnic, geographic, interests, etc, why not gender diversity also?</p>

<p>And fauve, I don’t think boys mature less quickly because they are spoiled. I think boys have always been that way. There are exceptions, of course, but on average they mature slower than girls.</p>

<p>My S does not get all A’s like my D’s do. He gets A’s and B’s, but that does not mean he is less ready for college.</p>

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<p>“And fauve, I don’t think boys mature less quickly because they are spoiled. I think boys have always been that way. There are exceptions, of course, but on average they mature slower than girls.”</p>

<p>I don’t think that’s exactly what Fauve meant…? I took it to mean that we assume that because they mature less quickly, we don’t put forth the same expectations of progessing maturity and responsibility that their peers get. </p>

<p>Honestly, at what point to parents stop saying “Boys will be boys!” and start acting like that doesn’t make a difference? Boys will learn maturity if they are given the opportunity and direction to be mature. </p>

<p>I understand that plenty of Sons and Boys are just as smart (ESP of people’s children here) but we are talking about the majority of America, which covers more than just the boys you or I know personally. We have to generalize a bit there: For every bright, genius and directed guy I meet, there are also plenty of boys who seem much more aimless than my female peers in High School.</p>

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<p>If they all get “there” in a reasonable time, why is faster better? Will the push to be there faster ever be too much? I think everyone should be be pushed enough to do THEIR best, but it won’t be the same for everybody.</p>