Hehe I spent 6 years in Berkeley. But I defer to your call on this of course 
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Going off topic here, sorry, canāt resistā¦
What everyone thinks California isā¦
What it actually isā¦
At the end of the day, your son should go with where he feels he will be most comfortable and get the best educational experience. If your family can afford the extra money without too much struggle, and he feels he really wants to be in CA, then of course he should consider it.
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He says he is ok anywhere, probably because he has not lived in cold before.
I on the other hand lived in Hawaii, Berkeley and warm part of India so I prefer to visit him in California. Haha!
Congrats on the further acceptances.
If he decides to go with one of the big state schools, I wouldnāt pay $10-15k more for a UC than for Illinois or Washington. So if he chooses the big brand name school, Iād choose Washington or Illinois at about $60k COA.
But thatās still twice as much as youāll pay for him to attend Kalamazoo College, which is a good, respected LAC. The ~120k youāll save over four years could pay for a Masterās degree, or help him make a huge down payment on a house, or be invested for future returns ā itās a lot of money that can be used for other things.
The big schools do a ton of research, but he will be fighting with many other undergrads and grad students for research opportunities. Kalamazoo does waaaaaaaaay less research, but he may actually have an easier time getting involved in it because there is so much less competition.
Those in the know at grad/PhD programs will know the Kalamazoo name ā as I said, it is a respected LAC, top-60 or so in most rankings of national LACs. His classes, especially the intro-level classes, will be much, much smaller at Kzoo than at the big state schools, so he will be interacting more directly with students and profs and will have much easier access to professors.
If cost were the same or similar, it would be a much harder decision, but because Kzoo is half the price of Wash and Illinois and less than half of the UCs, I would lean toward Kalamazoo College.
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Thanks. That is definitely reassuring. We talked to one Pharmacology professor in a large but lower ranked University. He mentioned Oberlin but didnāt know about Kalamazoo. Again just one off case so canāt rely on it too much.
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Iām surprised the Pharma prof hadnāt heard of Kāzoo ā itās among the better LACs in the Midwest. Reputational peers would include other respected schools like St. Olaf, Lawrence U, Beloit College, DePauw, etc.
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Yeah we were surprised too. Again being a small college may be not too many in absolute number even though % is quite high. Oberlin is a larger school.
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Regarding research, it is a misperception that students at LACs donāt have research opportunities. My daughter and most of her friends did research for one or more years while at their LAC. She was offered several research positions, one with a prof at her college who was looking for a summer research assistant. The other options were ones she found herself.
She got into a very competitive university for her masterās degree. She would unequivocally say that it was her experience and her recommendations. Iām not so sure she would have had the opportunities that she ended up with at a big school. Frankly, many people at big schools are little fish in big ponds. It can be hard to stand out.
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It really depends on a bunch of unknowns. There are a lot of students at UCLA/UC-B, and a lot of them will be gunning for the same top-tier PhD programs. So, if a lot of students in a cohort are gunning for places in the same program, any given student has to stand out first from the cohort at their own uni, and then from the overall applicant pool. But: āstanding outā can include GPA, LoRs, andā¦how the specific research interests of the student mesh with the research interests of the department and/or profs, as well as what funding the program currently has available.
The fit between the research interests of the student and the uni is kind of like the tuba/piccolo example that sometimes gets used for UG admissions: if the orchestra needs a piccolo and you are a tuba, it may not matter that your background is better in factor A- if the tuba play is otherwise comparably qualified, the tip will go to them.
And ofc, there is no way to know that at this point! Also no way to know how the interests will change once uni level work and research opps are in play- I know several current PhD students who changed fields once they were in uni (incl Chem to Math, BioChem to Chem, Bio to BioChem, Math to Physics and Astrophysics to MatSci). Not huge changes, but meaningful in terms of grad school apps.
tl;dr: IF the goal is a top 5/10 PhD program, the student is going to need to be at the top end of their cohort, wherever they are.
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Yes we thought so and even now think so. Some of the people are saying that for top research labs brand of the college and quality of research may matter, which is possible but not necessarily easy to get in large research school.
But everyone has good points and it will help in final decision.
Kalamazoo does have a chemistry department with 7 faculty and 1 visitor. It also seems to have a biochemistry major under the chemistry department rather than the biology department.
The student may want to consider the biology and chemistry faculty membersā interests and the upper level course offerings in biology and chemistry to determine how good the academic fit is for his interests. Due to small size, fit for the specific student is likely a more important consideration with LACs than other types of colleges.
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Yes that is what I feel also and being at top in K may be somewhat easier than at UCSD may be.
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Yes he is continuing to discuss with professors at K and it has been a pleasure to interact with them.
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Yes ā he will be a big fish in a small pond at Kāzoo.
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I read through the thread and it sounds like you are mostly talking about the question of which school would offer better opportunities, but I donāt have a sense of your sonās personal preferences. How does he feel about studying at a small LAC vs large public research university?
My son originally thought he would like a LAC (small classes taught by professors, more open curriculum, etc). After visiting many schools and taking a few classes at our local large research university, he started to love the large university feeling. He doesnāt mind large classes, and feels energized by all the exciting research happening all around. So he has now crossed all the smaller schools off his list.
On the other hand, many students love the smaller school environment with smaller classes and close relationships with professors, and do best in this environment.
Does your son have a sense of what he prefers? You did say this:
Is that more of your feeling as a parent, or is a smaller school his personal preference as well?
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His school till 10th was a large school. @40 students/class. For his A levels he changed the school to a really small school. His chemistry class was 4 students. I think he enjoyed the small school better. He doesnāt feel he is not a go getter, I am. Sure partly it is the parentās biased thinking :-).
@Aneesh_Pant you want to add here?
Iām college faculty (social sciences) and I was in charge of our departmentās PhD admissions for many years. Will the difference in brand name be large enough to make a difference for PhD admissions? I think it is possible that it can. Iām referring to the brand name of the institution OR the department itself, either could end up being important.
We take a holistic approach to admissions in our dept, but we had people on our admissions committee who seemed to take quality of institution as an easy heuristic to assume someone must be a good student. Similarly, although they would emphatically deny it, I suspect I have a colleague who looked down on some institutions as not being good enough. Incidentally, though, this person retired and I think this type of thinking is getting less common.
Still, I agree with ColdWombat (lol), some people at top institutions still have prestige mindset.
That said, maybe your kiddo would be the big fish in a smaller pond at Kalamazoo and would thrive and flourish. Or, perhaps itās simply a better fit and that again allows them to thrive/flourish (which will then be reflected on the PhD application). Maybe professor letters of recommendation would be more personalized and stronger from a smaller school?
But I agree again with the other poster: your kid will be able to get into a fully funded PhD program in biochem no matter what college he attends.
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Thanks much. This is a fairly consistent feedback from research faculty that we are getting. This will be extremely useful in making final decision.
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Congratulations on all your Sonās acceptances. I canāt offer a perspective on whether the more prominent research universities would be better for future Ph.D. plans.
Our S20 started at a LAC with about 3000 kids and found it to be too small and ended up transferring as a sophomore to a larger university. The LAC was a self-contained campus, not walkable to stores, restaurants, etcā¦ What I like about Kalamazoo, in particular, is that it is part of a bigger, active college town. You kind of get all the advantages of a smaller school in a larger college environment.
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Yes that is definitely true. Good amount of things to do plus Chicago and Detroit on a train line @2 hours away.