Kid wants to stay, Parents want to bring her back

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
101

<p>Sharpener, I’m referring to your post 68 in this reply. </p>

<p>OK, first, you and your child are different people. You are both of Asian (or partly Asian?) descent. You are the child of immigrants; your child is the the daughter of an HYPSM alum. Her parent(s) are posted internationally for work; they are able to afford full-pay tuition at a leading boarding school. She is attending one of the best and most rigorous high schools in the US. </p>

<p>Yes, your child has a hook. She’s a legacy, at least for your undergraduate college. Do not look at overall admit rates and think they accurately reflect her chances. The best person to speak to is the director of college counseling at your child’s school. He or she will know how legacy applicants from that school fare when applying to elite colleges, even down to how each college may regard legacies applying from that school.</p>

<p>See: [Legacy’s</a> Advantage May Be Greater Than Was Thought - Students - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“Legacy’s Advantage May Be Greater Than Was Thought”>Legacy’s Advantage May Be Greater Than Was Thought)
[Legacy</a> Admit Rate at 30 Percent | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/5/11/admissions-fitzsimmons-legacy-legacies/]Legacy”>Legacy Admit Rate at 30 Percent | News | The Harvard Crimson)
[Eisgruber</a> '83 defends legacy admissions, grade deflation at New York alumni event - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://dailyprincetonian.com/news/2013/10/at-new-york-alumni-event-eisgruber-83-defends-legacy-admissions-grade-deflation/]Eisgruber”>http://dailyprincetonian.com/news/2013/10/at-new-york-alumni-event-eisgruber-83-defends-legacy-admissions-grade-deflation/)
[Stanford</a> Magazine - Article](<a href=“Stanford Magazine - Article”>Stanford Magazine - Article)</p>

<p>Depending on the school, grading may be stringent enough to render any online search engines useless. Deerfield, for example, has three students whose gpas are above 95, according to their online college profile. And yet they do very well in college placement.</p>

<p>A great deal will depend on test scores. Has she taken the PSAT? I don’t think it’s as reliable an indicator as people say. Nevertheless, your description does not make me think she has no shot, particularly at your alma mater. (The best person to ask–college counselor!!) </p>

<p>As for me, I would opt for excellence in the high school education, as good preparation can make such a difference for success in college. I have no idea how well your local schools prepare students for university. Are you certain she would be admitted? </p>

<p>If finances are a concern, you will want to ask of the college counseling office at each school (your local school, and your child’s boarding school) how students like your daughter fare in securing merit scholarships. </p>

<p>Do you plan to return to the States at some point? Or is part of the problem that you do not plan to return, and thus sending your child to college in the States would be a huge gamble, as she might choose to stay in the States?</p>

102

<p>I got pulled out of a boarding school after my freshmen year to go to an asian country. I absolutely RESENTED my parents for that and now that i am a senior in college, the wounds have never truly healed. And I did not go to a top boarding school frequently mentioned here. So even though i didn’t have the unrivalled academic and social experience and prestige offered by a HADES or similar, the emotional and psychological toll it takes on a young teen from moving thousands of miles away at such a critical time is damaging and very real. I would imagine it would be many times harder to leave knowing what an amazing and privileged experience of a top boarding school she is leaving behind. I resented my parents, the new country, the new environment, very deeply, even as they offered me a chance to go to the international school. It is the worst time for change. </p>

<p>From what i can gather, if you can scrap it financially somehow, i would absolutely keep her there.</p>

103

<p>Is this thread still happening? I suspect that the OP has headed for the hills.</p>

104

<p>My sister was a case of reluctantly being pulled out of BS for no reason other than my aunt thinking it wasn’t worth it if she wasn’t going to HYP.</p>

<p>My aunt held POA while my parents were away doing who knows what (government jobs at the time). At the time my sister was a sophomore (16) I’m a BS. My aunt made the decision to pull my sister out, because she didn’t see her getting into a top university, and thought it was pointless to waste my parents money (even though my parents were the ones who sent her there). Because she was our legal guardian and control my parents money/estate/whatever she could make the decisions. </p>

<p>In the past 10 years (my sisters now 25 almost 26) I can probably count the number of times they’ve spoke on one hand. My sister hasn’t and probably never will not feel demoralized and thought down of by my aunt. The level of resentment for her pulling her out is massive.</p>

<p>So there’s an anecdote that is similar.</p>

105

<p>Do you blame him for heading for the hills?</p>

106

<p>I’ve said this before, but when you look at the Naviance statistics and parse out who is being admitted to ANY Ivy, let alone HYPMS from a HADES school, you quickly determine that without a significant hook, it’s the top 13% (in grades) that’s admitted to the Ivies, and the top 5 - 6% to HYPMS. That’s very rarified atmosphere at a HADES school. The moral of the story, again, is that a top BS is not the place to go if all you want is a “guarantee” of Ivy or HYPMS admission.</p>

<p>And to reiterate what others have said, the social networks built in BS outmatch those in a top university. The bonds are closer and the networks are still very good indeed.</p>

107

<p>@Sharpener: Back on this thread, at your request.</p>

<p>@tigerdad: So then, why do people come on the forum every new application cycle with HADES=>HYPSM on the brain?</p>

108

<p>Hope springs eternal? People want to believe there is a magical formula. If there is one, it is an extraordinary degree of innate ability and desire… and desire on the part of the student, not the parent. I could tell you stories the stories of early admissions to Yale, and Princeton admits. They are daunting. These are not top 1%ers. They are likely top 0.1%ers. That’s not to say that a give student might not have a series of hooks (i.e., crew captain from Andover?) and get in without anything else which is stellar. I hardly think it is desirable or perhaps even ethical to push HYPMS on a child, given this. Personally, I agree with some of the other posters here, that BS is likely a better all around leg up in life. </p>

<p>My daughter was an ambassador for a HADES school and was early accepted to a top five university. It was not HYPMS. I was very happy with it, as was she. But the parents she shepherded around during their childrens’ interviews invariably asked about her upcoming college plans, and were frequently less than kind about what they thought about her going to the university she now attends. </p>

<p>Families drawn to HADES schools and the like are likely going to always draw alot of parents with this type of world outlook.</p>

109

<p>Just want to say for any parents doing interviews in the future: before we started touring last year, someone suggested NEVER asking a senior giving the tour where he or she is applying (let alone thinking it’s ok to comment on their choice). Excellent rule of thumb.</p>

110

<p>P.S. Not saying parents don’t talk about that stuff, of course-- just saying to leave the poor seniors in the middle of fall applications alone ��</p>

111

<p>Daykidmom: I think this is especially true during revisit season…when the decisions (good, bad, or otherwise) have or are coming in and anxiety may be high.</p>

<p>I did ask seniors during the Fall tour season about where they were thinking of applying…at that stage, I think it’s still early enough to be conjecture/polite conversation.</p>

<p>Note that on a recent visit (at a non-HADES school) with 7D1, several seniors volunteered where they had gotten into college so far, one with an Ivy early decision in hand.</p>

112

<p>Freshman grades are often not even looked at and Sophomore years are germane if there is improvement, on the way to stellar Junior year grades. All grades matter, but everyone likes a story of improvement, even the ivies. I don’t think said student was out of the running altogether. Even though the GPA is supposedly most important, rigor and SATs really count too. Maybe mom or dad’s (OP) expressed anticipated plan is just what student needed to work harder. It’s the student’s education and therefore his/her job to prove to mom/dad they are taking the opportunity and sacrifices seriously.</p>

113

<p>I’m not a parent but:</p>

<p>HYPSM schools are not the only great universities and to not have have any Cs at one of the top boarding schools is an accomplishment of itself. She is happy where she is and her boarding school will open a lot more doors for her than her local school. Thats just my opinion but at the end of the day it comes down to you and your daughter.</p>

114

<p>I don’t know you. I don’t know your daughter. All I’m going to say is that I think I’d prefer Amherst, Williams, Haverford, Wellesley, Oberlin, or Pomona over an Ivy any day. I’d be in smaller classes on a smaller campus, and that means a lot to me.</p>

115

<p>OP here. I absolutely have NOT headed for the hills. I REALLY appreciate the anecdotes and am reading all the posts with great interest. There have also been some PMs that have been extremely helpful.</p>

<p>Not sure why more than a few people are so intent on shutting this thread down. Let’s just let it take its natural course, I will continue to read with great interest.</p>

<p>@sevendad – glad you’re back in. Thanks.</p>

<p>I will comment on some of the comments:</p>

<p>Unfortunately, my daughter has absolutely no interest in my alma mater. In fact, she won’t even be applying! (Which is unfortunate since I am a consistent donor and alumni interviewer.) Also, schools have different views on whether they consider children of graduate school alumni as legacy. In my case, the school does not consider children of graduate school alumni as legacy. Bottom line, no legacy hook for DD.</p>

<p>@sevendad & @tigerdad - I am sure that families that do their research realize that HADES by no means guarantees HYPSM. But as a parent that wants to support their child’s desire to at least “be in the running” for HYPSM, what other options are there? Perhaps one could pour resources into developing an athletic or artistic talent, but for my daughter the passion/world-class talent wasn’t there in non-academic endeavors.</p>

<p>@stargirl - Amherst, Williams, Haverford, Wellesley, Oberlin, or Pomona are ALL schools I am considering seriously for my daughter too. But my point is I beleive she could get admitted to at least one them without the enormous sacrifices of boarding school.</p>

<p>@howdoipay – I still have you on the hook to back up your comment
“The HYPSM crazed don’t post here? That’s absurd.”</p>

<p>I haven’t seen ANYONE crazy enough to take the abuse even though I know for CERTAIN there are many of us!</p>

116

<p>A quick note to Sharpener:
This is something I have struggled to understand…how children (like some of the 8th grade BS prospects that come to this thread) even develop the “desire to at least ‘be in the running’ for HYPSM” in the first place.</p>

<p>I ask this without guile or judgement. I simply don’t have kids who, at 16 and 13, are all that aware of what a “selective/prestigious” college is and I’m very curious how some of the peers formulate these dreams.</p>

117

<p>@Sharpener, I’m not sure I agree with you on everything, but I like you. I don’t know why. Good luck.</p>

118

<p>@Sevendad - It is the environment. We live in Asia and kids attended an international school (which frankly was primarly attended by wealthy locals, as opposed to ex-pats). Getting your kids into HYPMS is a national sport here, particulary the H and the M. I guess it it was inevitable that it would rub off on my kids. While HYPSM obsession isn’t necessarily healthy, I suppose there are much worse influences. Incidentally, I have a younger one in 6th grade and among her peer group Andover, Deerfield, Exeter and SPS are a part of their everyday conversation! The kids all want to go there as the stepping stone to H!</p>

119

<p>That’s another data point. Do you want your daughter to go back to that environment? My father left Asia when I was a child so we could escape the rate race and have a healthier childhood. We did. Some of us ended up at those top tier schools and some didn’t. All of us are very productive today.</p>

120

<p>Sharpener, if I understand you correctly, of HYPSM, your daughter doesn’t want to apply to “your” universities? In which case, you’re left with 3 of the 5? And in your opinion, her academic record doesn’t guarantee admission to those 3, thus you wish to bring her home.</p>

<p>May I observe that this slips from the obsessive to the impossible? </p>

<p>If you miss your daughter, and want her to come home, then tell her that. Don’t frame it as an academic failure, because it isn’t. Frankly, even a perfect GPA wouldn’t guarantee admission to whichever 3 are left. (And, The Mystery 3, in that group, do place a fair amount of emphasis on extracurricular involvement and personality. I would lay odds that a perfect GPA + no extracurriculars would not be as appealing to AOs as a “very good” GPA and impressive extracurriculars (showing commitment, maturity, and leadership. The last two years of school are the time when students have the standing to start leading groups.)</p>

<p>You do have to consider maturity. On the “not mature yet” side, kids change immensely between the spring of Sophomore year, and the winter of senior year. It’s easy to reject a college sight unseen. On the “but growing up quickly” side, Juniors are noticeably more mature than Sophomores. Even if your daughter spends the last two years of her high school career at a local day school, she is transitioning to becoming an adult. </p>

<p>As to HYPSM obsession, it goes in waves, as does an obsession with statistics. In my opinion, based only on nicknames and behaviors, it seems to be a male-linked trait. (I could be wrong, and there are certainly women in the group too.) (I must go to bed. If this thread continues, I might drag up some HYPSM obsessed threads.)</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong–they’re fine universities. But there are many other fine universities in the country. I prefer looking at the student’s interests, then finding the university which has things such as strong majors in the field, rather than relying on the “everyone knows” sort of opinion. For many students, I think a good liberal arts college might be a better choice for undergrad, unless of course that student knows she wants to major in (insert particular major here), and wants to concentrate as early as possible in that major.</p>