Kid wants to stay, Parents want to bring her back

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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<p>^ Just some minor points of clarification</p>

<p>DD may still apply to the institution where I went to grad school, but she won’t be considered a legacy. The school’s policy is that children of graduate school alumni are NOT put in the legacy pool. So she’s looking at 4 (not 3) of the schools, but won’t get the benefit of legacy at any of them.</p>

<p>She doesn’t have NO ECs, it’s just that they aren’t “world-class” ECs like Gold Medal in Math Olympiad, Intel Science Fair Finalist, Carnegie Hall performer musician, Child Actor in a recognized program, Recruited Athlete etc. She’s savvy and ambitious to understand that she needs leadership positions in her EC and is already angling for them, we’ll see… Modest ECs combined with stellar grades could put her in the running, but modest ECs with modest grades I believe rule her out of HYPSM.</p>

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<p>^^ You scare me.</p>

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<p>^^ How is a comment like that even productive?</p>

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<p>^^ I’m a cantankerous sort, Sharpener. I don’t favor coddling privileged children. But your comments seem to me to represent the other extreme, a sort of black and white universe where a great, hardworking, involved kid can be shut down without apparent indecision. I cannot imagine myself punishing my daughter because she was unlikely to meet my Ivy expectations. It scares me. It really does. I’m being honest.</p>

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<p>“It is the environment. We live in Asia and kids attended an international school (which frankly was primarly attended by wealthy locals, as opposed to ex-pats). Getting your kids into HYPMS is a national sport here, particulary the H and the M. I guess it it was inevitable that it would rub off on my kids.”</p>

<p>So it’s not your job to tell her that there are plenty of great schools in the US beyond HYPSM, and that HYPSM obsession is the province of the unsophisticated? </p>

<p>Anyway, is it really HER dream or YOUR dream?</p>

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<p>Can you articulate ANYTHING about HYPSM that meaningfully separate them from the top 20 or so universities and colleges beyond bragging rights in Asia? Because thinking of them as meaningfully different or meaningfully better is really odd, Sharpener. It’s not clear, thoughtful thinking at all.</p>

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<p>What makes you think that any one of the great, excellent colleges wouldn’t be transformational and open up incredible doors later in life? You seem to be under the belief that only HYPSM can do those things. Why is that? What makes you think that?</p>

<p>Do you not understand that HYPSM offers 30,000 opportunities - and the next 20 or so schools on the list offer 25,000 – and any one person can’t take advantage of more than a handful?</p>

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<p>Your actions speak opposite, if you’re willing to withdraw her from a school she likes because she’s not “good enough” to get into HYPSM. </p>

<p>You are all over the board, with all due respect. It’s your daughter’s dream – it’s your dream, but then it’s not – it’s the dream of the people around her in her environment. Can you at least be honest - it’s your dream, you want the bragging rights?</p>

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<p>“I have a younger one in 6th grade and among her peer group Andover, Deerfield, Exeter and SPS are a part of their everyday conversation! The kids all want to go there as the stepping stone to H!”</p>

<p>Though I have tried to raise my kids in a Ke$ha, Uggs, and “Harvard or bust”-free bubble, I’ve definitely seen this in my 8th grader’s day school peer group. Many of the kids at her day school are shooting for “brand name” boarding schools…and I’m pretty sure it’s the parents who are planting the seeds. One outcome is that kids who may not be shooting so high (including my daughter) end up feeling a bit second-class.</p>

<p>The “prestigious college admission” game is played in the US too…and the intensity varies by geography. We live in the Garden State, where college anxiety is fairly high. But from an acquaintance who lives in Cambridge, MA (spouse is H prof), that may represent the apogee (or nadir?) of the phenomenon.</p>

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<p>What I think is hysterical is the assumption that “well, if that’s their environment, there’s nothing you should do about it.”</p>

<p>If one of your children were suddenly transplanted into, let’s say, suburban Kansas City where the majority of the kids desire to go to Mizzou or Kansas, you wouldn’t accept it as “oh, well, the environment.” You’d take an active role in expanding your child’s horizons, and telling him - well, just because these people can’t see beyond Mizzou or Kansas doesn’t mean that YOU can’t. </p>

<p>Why isn’t it the same thing when you have people who are equally provincial and can only see HYPSM and nothing more? It’s equally unsophisticated and provincial. Just a different kind of provincial. Why are such people worth “impressing”?</p>

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<p>I read every post in the thread and admit that I am the minority here. No need to go to Asia to experience the Ivy craze, just come to our Sunday language schools and read the community newspaper. It’s the dream of many parents. Last year at my D’s BS admitted student reception, I met a PG student, the nicest young man. I asked his dad why PG. The dad said “because my son didn’t get into HYP”. Most parents will laugh at him, but I felt differently. I respect their determination. They may be disappointed again this March, but at least they tried. After all, it’s a tough world out there and there will be many many disappointment in one’s life. No this family is not Asian but they are one of the few races covered in Amy Chua’s new book.</p>

<p>OP, You didn’t elaborate but I have the feeling that this is also your D’s dream. I know many high achieving students, here in the US and in Asia, who have set their goal on Ivies. I have always tried to do my speech that there are many fine schools in the US, including LACs, and it’s more important to find the right academic match. After pointing out the odds and stress the importance of academics and the well-roundness, I do encourage them to work hard towards this goal; but then also have a side talk with the parents about the what-ifs.</p>

<p>A previous post commented along the line of child abuse, really? Every family is different. As parents we raise our children the way we believe the best for them. Additionally, children are part of the family so where they go to school, what they do for EC, and what spring break activities they attend, are also dependent upon the family resources. While many times they are the priority, sometimes they aren’t. I believe kids need to understand this aspect. Others may differ, but I got the sense that you are a responsible parent and you truly want the best for your D; it’s just that your way is not the main stream way here, although it is in many parts of the world. And I think that’s okay.</p>

<p>But I do think that for practical reasons, you should consider several factors:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Not sure which Asian country you live in. The competition in international schools in Asia is fierce, and some competitions are not fair or healthy, especially considering the fact most selective schools only take 1 or 2 (at the most) students from a particular high school. I hope you know what I mean. </p></li>
<li><p>It’s much more difficult to get in a top 25 school from overseas. Your D likely will have a better chance to get into a great LAC from the BS so you might want to keep that in mind. </p></li>
<li><p>Is your D a sensitive child? I ask this because parents and students in Asia are much more sensitive to this kind of thing so I am afraid there would be some finger pointing. Will she be okay with that? </p></li>
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<p>Wish you best of luck, and be careful with your younger child. The top notch BS is counter-productive to your goal. And depending on what your D’s future plan, even Ivies may be counter-productive. I will forever remember at the Fall open house at a local very selective private school, the admission person’s said that “if your only goal is to get your child into Ivies, then you have come to the wrong place…”. </p>

<p>Lastly please do consider the many fine colleges that are non-ivy. I personally know many high achieving kids who failed to make to an ivy so they attend other schools. All of them, ALL, love their school, so do the parents.</p>

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<p>Sharpener, you haven’t told us why those 4 schools are so special they warrant extreme actions. </p>

<p>It sounds to me as if you’re in the throes of Upper Class Admissions Doubt. (UCAD) I’ve come to believe there’s a whole industry which focuses solely on freaking out affluent parents of smart kids. Ironically, such children have the best chances of doing very well in school and in life. It’s as if there’s no “off” switch for panic.</p>

<p>Why are you talking to us? You should be talking to the college counseling office at your child’s school. On Naviance, you can see how applicants to top colleges do. Naviance allows you to see how many applications, how many acceptances, waitlists, rejections, etc. The results are usually much, much better than the school’s overall results. A school’s matriculation list is not the best source to judge admissions outcomes. (For one thing, in today’s economic climate, more families are opting to pay attention to things like merit aid, rather than prestige.)</p>

<p>It could be that you fear contacting the college counseling office at this point will tag you as a “psycho parent” in their eyes. Withdrawing a happy kid who’s thriving at her school is a drastic action. As others on this thread have pointed out, there is a great danger of lasting resentment on your daughter’s part. </p>

<p>In comparison to the leading colleges, attending a top boarding school gives a student more personalized attention, and a more influential alumni network.</p>

<p>Notwithstanding that, if your child were miserable, I’d say there’s no harm in changing schools. However, if she’s hysterical at the thought of leaving, that’s really difficult.</p>

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<p>My DD is a sophomore at a HADES school and in our family, SHE is the one who’s getting pulled into the HYPSM mania. The way this manifests itself is that whenever anyone breathes the word “college” she goes into major drama/panic and claims that, despite her excellent grades and solid (for a sophomore) extracurricular involvement, she’s not going to be able to get in “anywhere”. </p>

<p>DH and I are what I would consider pretty damn broad-minded about which colleges our dcs attend and we make that clear to her. I think DD’s worries over the issue are attributable to her general stress level, and to her exposure to the HYPSM obsession at her school. It’s one of the few things about her boarding school experience that I feel is a negative outcome. </p>

<p>To be honest, I’m not sure how to handle it. I just know that she’s going to need to get past it, because her outlook on the college situation is going to be a real barrier when the time comes to look at a variety of schools in an open-minded way.</p>

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<p>My child is actually in the throes of a complete opposite reaction. She is freaking out because she can’t understand why she is supposed to, at age 14, know her complete plan for life. In her words, “how come I am supposed to know what I want to do and how to get into a good college when my brain is still developing?”. She asked, “what if I want to own my own business, or bake dog treats, or go in to the military? Why do I have to decide NOW … and why is there such a rush for kids to be A-students with a plan at such a young age?”. </p>

<p>She loves her school. She does not love that her grades seem to be the only way to define who she is. I have to say I agreed with her. I counseled her that she does NOT have to decide now, but that the better she does now the more choices she will have later. I also told her that if she decides on a different path many years down the road, it is still possible… it just might require more work or backtracking to get there.</p>

<p>It kinda broke my heart to realize that she has hopes and dreams, but may feel a failure if they don’t include (or require) straight A’s or an Ivy education.</p>

<p>The pressure put on these kids today is unreal. When I was young, I was free to make mistakes, or fail a course, and things could still be OK. The kids today are genuinely penalized for normal, teenage mistakes. Don’t get me started on the pain of making social mistakes in an internet-obsessed world.</p>

<p>I truly felt bad for my child today. And she made some very good points. I am in the process of doing a bit of self-evaluation as to how to help her go forward without her destroying the adventurous spirit she has. I hear what SevenDad is saying… somehow kids who do not have Ivy dreams (their own or their parents) are somehow made to feel 2nd class. :(</p>

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<p>My two kids are quite opposite in this respect (and it is more than 3 years age difference). My 15yo has had his eye on MIT since he was little. He has wanted to be an engineer practically since preschool. Spending time there has only increased this desire. He loves SPLASH weekends! We are trying to be realistic that with an 8% acceptance rate it is a very hard place to get accepted and do talk about other great schools for engineering - there are a few others out there ;). He is only a freshman, so has some time to finalize his ideas. I expect the college placement office at his school to give him (and us) advice in a few years. He is internally driven, and less concerned about what others think, so that is a plus at a competitive BS school.</p>

<p>My 6th grader has no idea what he wants to be (probably something in science). We’re not sure where he’ll go for HS, let alone college! He has his strengths, but never been as focused as his brother (no value, just an observation). We are convinced he will do well but not sure what his path will look like at this time, and don’t need to!</p>

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<p>Just one possibly comforting thought, friendly mom: I think the focus on HYPMS schools among freshmen and sophomores is actually much greater than it is among juniors and seniors. Once they start talking to their college advisers, and once they hear their fellow classmates talk about visiting a wide range of schools, I think they broaden out their interests pretty quickly (at least from what I’ve observed). Most advisors are really good at making a range of schools seem interesting, and other kids’ enthusiasm is infectious. If possible, it’s also great to plan a visiting trip early in the process, and just tell DD she needs a feel for a range of places-- urban/rural, large/small. The schools don’t have to even include those on her current list for this initial visit. Again you’d be surprised how quickly they fall in love with different places-- even if HYPMS remains on the list, other schools will as well.</p>

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<p>Agree with above, but we knew this going in as both parents are TSAO alums. So we’ve explained to DC that it’s a cultural orientation to be aware of (“elite angst”), so to observe it without trying to get sucked into it completely. In the junior year, results are mixed. Kids stress each other out; in some cases because they have families behind them with elite expectations, in some cases just because it’s how they are themselves. This, to me, is where BS parents ought NOT to abdicate sensible advising. Let the CC office do its job conveying to your child where prior graduates with Similar profiles have met with success, and support your kid if their interests include outlier institutions at either end of the spectrum. Like so many things in life–there are always choices. & the hardest part sometimes is making the one choice after considering such a variety of rich options. First world problems, indeed.</p>

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<p>@friendlyMom</p>

<p>One of the best ways we found to avert HYPSM angst was to visit some colleges that were potentially great fits, and NOT IVY. And we started freshman year of HS whenever we were traveling. </p>

<p>We saw many amazing schools, and it is a bit easier to figure out if the goal is big or small, artsy or tech, without the “BIG NAME” attached.</p>

<p>For example, my D was absolutely amazed by U Chicago (yes, sorry it is still very competitive) but it is basically an IVY, in a great town, that also has a sense of humor and good pizza. Many other amazing finds in the Midwest I have posted elsewhere. </p>

<p>So break out of the mold and for the sake of sanity, go look at schools other than HYPSM.</p>

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<p>@london - I like your daughter!</p>

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<p>Twinsmama: thanks. She is a very bright kid but not a “student”… But always has interesting things going on. Definitely an entrepreneurial spirit!</p>

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<p>@pizzagirl – Apparently I struck a nerve with you. I don’t think you read all my posts.</p>

<p>Let me reiterate – I am FINE with my daughter NOT going to a HYPSM. But if she’s not going to HYPSM then I want to save my money (refer to post #115, 3rd paragraph from bottom). It’s simple economics. I believe I can get the same (college admission) result by spending a LOT less. The argument that many are making is 1) there other benefits besides college admission that make boarding school worth the cost and 2) the trauma I will impose on my daughter by pulling her out won’t be worth the money I will save. Both valid, but at the end of day they are both judgment calls.</p>

<p>As for the value of HYPSM, there’s clearly some reason why their reputations have endured for such a long period of time. I suspect there’s very little cost difference between a HYPSM and a LAC, so for the same amount of money why wouldn’t you pick the one with the better “brand”?</p>

<p>I think institutions have long-standing reputations for good reason and other than an obvious mismatch like sending a kid interested in English to MIT, you attend the best school that admits you. Would my daughter be happier at Yale or Williams? Who knows?!?!? And how can you know!?!? But if she gets into both she’s going to Yale, no question.</p>

<p>My younger brother was accepted into 3 of the HYPSMs. My parents forced him to attend his last choice because it was driving distance from their house. He loved his college years.</p>

<p>And of course, HYPSM is my daughter’s dream. Sure, she grew up knowing I went to HYPSM as did her uncle, and kids at her international school talk about HYPSM. But I don’t think any amount of parental pressure could get a kid to work as hard as my daughter does. As I mentioned before, her extreme work ethic actually concerns me. Her motivation clearly comes from within as evidenced by my younger one who grew up in the exact same environment (same parents, same uncle, same school as older sister) but has a more “relaxed” work ethic. These days, I don’t see how a kid would even be “in the running” for HYPSM without being self-motivated.</p>

<p>@Periwinkle – I am struggling whether or not to bring this up with school. So far I haven’t and you hit the nail on the head about not wanting to be labeled a “psycho” (because it’s not completely unwarranted :wink: ). But a bigger concern I have is the school might “write off” my daughter if they know there’s a good chance she’s leaving. Her advisor has really gone above and beyond for her and I am concerned that he will feel “betrayed”.</p>