<p>“As for the value of HYPSM, there’s clearly some reason why their reputations have endured for such a long period of time. I suspect there’s very little cost difference between a HYPSM and a LAC, so for the same amount of money why wouldn’t you pick the one with the better “brand”?”</p>
<p>Just as I thought - you can’t articulate any real reason. </p>
<p>It’s people who AREN’T knowledgeable - particularly those outside the US who have a very incomplete perspective and rely on brand name as a shortcut - who genuflect at HYPSM and think Williams, Amherst, U Chicago, whatever are a “step down.”
It’s the cognoscenti who know that these other places are great too.</p>
<p>You seem to worry about currying favor with the less knowledgeable. Why is that?
If someone says, for example - I’ve heard of Harvard, but not Amherst, so Amherst can’t be as good as Harvard - you seem to think that the appropriate answer is “well, then, I’d best make my kid pick Harvard over Amherst.” Why isn’t your answer “well, I guess that person isn’t very knowledgeable then”? There’s a lot of insecurity going on.</p>
<p>“Would my daughter be happier at Yale or Williams? Who knows?!?!? And how can you know!?!? But if she gets into both she’s going to Yale, no question.”</p>
<p>Wow. You really do have a lot of your own ego in this. </p>
<p>I have 2 children at top 20 schools, including a school you mentioned upthread. If, in a hypothetical world, they had 20 acceptances from all of the top 20 schools in hand and wer deciding, I would advise them to pick the one that they personally preferred. The quality differences are dancing on a head of a pin at that level. Why can’t Yale and Williams both be great and equal choices?</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl - I think we need to agree that we won’t see eye to eye on the HYPSM issue. That’s fine and quite natural, isn’t it? I think I have explained myself but you have no interest in trying to see my point of view and I now see that you never will. I will spend my time and resources the way I want, using my criteria and you will do the same. And congrats on getting both your kids at top 20 schools. If you are happy then that’s all that matters. No need to convince me or anyone else that was the best thing for you and your family.</p>
<p>Pizza girl, 3% of scientists think that global warming isn’t real, too. No amount of rational argument will open eyes that have long ago been shut happily and with supreme confidence. After all, it is sharpeners right in every way to raise her family as she thinks best and spend her money the way she wants. It’s anathema to me, but that’s what makes the world go round.</p>
<p>Present a cogent argument that HYPSM are “worth more” than other elite colleges and I’m all ears. “Prestige abroad among people who know not of what they speak” isn’t a cogent argument. HYPSM are all outstanding schools, of course, but to isolate them and hold them up as the holy grail is neither logical nor sophisticated.</p>
<p>As for your daughter’s dream, get real. She doesn’t really have an option to have, say, Williams as her dream over Yale. What’s the point in having a dream other than the one that mom / dad have for you? (I don’t know your gender, so apologies for not specifying which.) you can’t raise her to believe HYPSM is the only grail and then shrug and say, what can I do, it’s her dream. You created that.</p>
<p>@Stargirl - She could have also have gone to Wellesley and later wished she had gone to Yale. No way to know. As in the example with my brother whose school was selected by driving distance, who heck knows how to determine ‘fit’?</p>
<p>Sharpener. What <strong><em>specifically</em></strong> do HYPSM offer that is not offered by other elite colleges that puts them head and shoulders above them and makes them worth-the-effort-of-boarding-school? Is there ANYTHING you can articulate other than that for some arbitrary reason, the good people of Asia have decided that those schools are the best, because they’re simply unfamiliar with (or less familiar with) other fine colleges and universities?</p>
<p>The way I see it: Sharpener is the one who is paying the bills and her daughter being raised by her probably understands the rules and dynamics of the family, HER family. While everyone has a different reason to put their kids in BS, everyone has almost the same reason to pull them out. And that reason is money. If the money is not well spent, then the one(s) who earn(s) the money have(s) to decide, what is the best way to spend these money. Sharpener is NOT saying, that she is not going to spend the money on her daughter, but RATHER would spend them in a different way. Her explanation is well within her family philosophy and, if it sounds strange to some, it should be respected.
There are and will be people looking down upon all of us for putting our kids in BS, and it does not really matter, how GOOD that BS is.
So, Sharpener, my 2 cents are: talk to your daughter and explain her the family economics. Start your conversation with a question, what does she want and how she sees it happening. At 15 or 16 the kids can explain what they want. However, I would not let the kid to make the decision in this particular case. It has to be the family decision.</p>
<p>Pizza - What is better? A minivan or an SUV? If I want to spend my money on a minivan, why do I need to convince you that a minivan is better? No matter what I say you will think an SUV is better. BTW, I was born and raised entirely in the US.</p>
<p>Sharpener- The school won’t “write off” your daughter, but they might question your judgment. You delivered this news and sent her back to face winter term alone. WINTER TERM: Arguably the longest darkest slog known to mankind even under the best of circumstances. I think it’s safe to say her advisor already knows (directly or indirectly) and is probably wondering WHY you couldn’t spare her until Spring Break. At least then, she’d be returning to campus in the company of others (not renewing their contracts) and seniors in the last leg of their journey. In other words, she’d have two months ( of heartache) instead of the four she has now and there would be all kinds of support in place. Schools are very supportive of kids they KNOW won’t be returning, but right now they’re flying blind. I don’t think that’s fair to your daughter or the school.</p>
<p>If I were you, I would stop projecting about future college placement and start living in the present. It’s obvious your mind is made up. Let the school know so they can help your daughter. This is not a lecture. It’s a plea.</p>
<p>This fight is getting silly. HYPMS are, indeed, great schools. They DO have things other schools don’t have: some have unique tutorial and house systems, they attract amazing faculty, have great research going on, attract amazing speakers, open doors for their graduates. The top LACs are also great, in DIFFERENT ways:smaller classes, better advising, much more focus on undergraduate teaching (well, maybe “P” is the exception), opportunities to work with faculty, yet still good networking and amazing fellow students. These differences are why fit matters–but dumping on one type of great school over another is silly. I do think a lot of freshmen and sophomores in high school don’t know about fit yet. That’s why it’s important to start early and visit different types of schools. And while it’s true that, even after visiting, kids don’t KNOW they won’t regret their choice later, they often do form pretty strong opinions about the type of school they want and where they’ll be happiest and most successful (and those places aren’t always ivies–but, of course, for some people they are). This fight aside, I think most posters here are trying to say sharpener’s daughter sounds happy and successful, and that there is much to be had out of BS besides college placement-- so why not leave her in school? Of COURSE most posters here believe in the value of BS. But I think posters are MOST concerned about the girl’s self-esteem because she, at this point, has been told she’s not “good enough” to make the cost worth it (because “good enough” means HYPMS for the parents). But it’s not that it’s ridiculous to like HYPMS-- it’s just that that’s not the reason to go to BS, because MOST BS kids don’t end up there. Sharpener is right-- the value of a BS education and whether or not the girl will be traumatized by being pulled out for getting B’s is something of a value judgement. But most of the parents here feel their own child would internalize that feeling of being “not good enough” if they were pulled out of a school they loved for this reason, and, from the sound of it, this girl is smart, hard-working, and happy, so she should feel great-- and will likely get into some good college. So people are just concerned for her. But I don’t think fighting over Yale vs. Williams (or whatever) will get anyone anywhere:the schools ARE different, each is preferred by some people over the other, and those people CAN make valid arguments for why their choice is better (for them).</p>
<p>And sharpener-- just one quick +1 for Photomom’s point just now: it seems like it would be helpful to tell the school what you told your daughter so they can support her now. Because it MUST be affecting her in some way.</p>
<p>@Amandarin - Very much appreciated your anecdote, particularly the eery resemblance. What I took away from it, was that the message to the kid for the decision is CRITICAL.</p>
<p>Also @Sharperner: you keep saying how HYMPS is not necessarily a worry for you… that you are more concerned about not spending the money on the last 2 years of boarding school.</p>
<p>So: stop talking about HYMPS in every post. It just perpetuates the argument and never gets to the root of your original question. If, in fact, the ONLY issue is whether you want to hear stories of other kids similarly “pulled” from boarding school, then keep on topic. You will never get your answer if you keep discussing the factor you say is not as important to you. Just advice. The other issue will not be resolved in this thread, but maybe you can resolve your original question. Unless, of course, I have misunderstood and the Ivy admission is the point? </p>
<p>To add to the point that @Amandarin makes – most of your responses have been to defend Ivy dreams… and very little mention has been made of the saving of money, or of acknowledging the anecdotes you requested be given. </p>
<p>So at this point, I am totally confused about what you hope to hear? I am not being mean or sarcastic. I am truly confused. Good luck to you and your family in your decision making. I don’t think I can help so I won’t muddy the waters any longer. I hope your decision makes your whole family happy.</p>
<p>@NYCMomof3: I say that to myself every day! “where is that like button?”</p>
<p>Not to mention that there are many kids out there right now with pending applications to your daughters school. If, in fact, you are planning to give up her spot - do it in time for those kids to have a chance at their dream.</p>
<p>"…the message to the kid for the decision is CRITICAL."</p>
<p>Your child will know exactly why you have pulled her from the school. You can try to explain it however you like, but she will know the real reason. She got the message. She’s been getting the message her whole life.</p>
<p>You do realize, I hope, that you can’t force your child to go to college. Any college. She will be a legal adult and able to make decisions about her life without any input from you. Including which college, if any, to attend. She is likely smart enough to also figure out how to finance it on her own. Again, without any input from you.</p>
<p>You misunderstand me. I’m not trying to get to a consensus of “which is better - elite LAC’s or HYPSM.” Indeed, I have a kid at a top 10 LAC and a kid at a top 20 research university! And the point is - they are both great opportunities. There is no need to categorically say that one is “better” than the other.</p>
<p>There is a concept of “there are a lot of great places” that seems to be lost on you, because you seem to have already made up your mind that HYPSM are, indeed, the greatest. Which is your prerogative. But it’s short-sighted. </p>
<p>And your desire to have a kid achieve the holy grail of HYPSM is blinding you to the very real ways in which you may hurt your daughter by telling her that her enjoyment of her boarding school experience is ONLY worth it to you IF it results in a HYPSM acceptance. But hey, you’re entitled to put prestige before people if you like.</p>