<p>I wish we could all take this thread back. It’s rubbed a lot of people raw and been a colossal waste of time.</p>
<p>@Sharpener wrote: “I suspect there’s very little cost difference between a HYPSM and a LAC, so for the same amount of money why wouldn’t you pick the one with the better ‘brand’?”</p>
<p>Translating this down to BS, 7D1 is one of the cases who, given the choice on M10, DIDN’T pick the school with the better “brand”. And I know that she’s not the only example in recent years…but again, I think this is really just about “different strokes for different folks”. An “agree to disagree” situation. If my older daughter got into both Yale and Williams (not that she’s planning to apply to either) next year, we would counsel her to choose on “fit” for her, not “brand”…</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl: Not that I am a moderator or anything, but I’d advise ratcheting things down a few clicks if I were you. And believe me, I am very much a “look past the HYPSM” sort of fellow.</p>
<p>Gingerella:
</p>
<p>You know, you’d think so, but I can’t think of a case. In general, in the schools my kids have attended, students have left due to ill health, disciplinary reasons, huge changes in family circumstances, social unhappiness, or academic reasons. (And admittedly, those reasons can blend together. Being sick a lot leads to falling behind. “I hate this place/I want to go home” doesn’t correlate with diligence. etc.) “Well, she wasn’t doing well enough for HYPSM, so her parents yanked her” is not a story my kids have come home with.</p>
<p>Some quick internet searching came up with international schools in Asia with tuitions on a level with top US private day schools. So the cost savings would not necessarily be $100,000. It would be $100,000+cost of travel - (2 years of tuition to good international school).</p>
<p>There’s not much we can do to help you. You need to speak with your child’s school. If you are concerned about how hard your daughter is working, that’s either school culture (which can be the case!) or it’s a combination of school culture and her personal work ethic. I do not think that transferring from an academic US boarding school to an international school in Asia will cause a student to work less. You should check with your local school for a measure of the work load in high school.</p>
<p>“I really miss you and I think you’re working too hard” is a more convincing argument. “I think you’re putting your health in danger, and no college is worth that,” is also more convincing.</p>
<p>I have long held the belief that where ones stands on this arguments depends on where your child attends or was admitted. Also with a few exceptions, I have found that IVY parents tend to tow the party line and support their schools, especially in public venues. I think this is good politics. The application numbers and admittance rates speak for themselves, so it is hard to argue that a high number of students with very high stats would not like to attend. Having said that, I am also certain that many of these students have found wonderful experiences elsewhere. If your child has stats that are within the acceptance parameters of HYPSM, are you going to discourage the application? Most likely not, but if you are smart you would have managed to expose your child to many other schools that he or she would be happy to attend. Then you have a good outcome with no bitterness by parent or child.</p>
<p>I think our obligation as parents is to manage expectations and try as hard as possible not to download any biases that we might have onto our children. I think for BS students, especially those in the more competitive schools, they definitely are “tuned in” to the whole Ivy thing. I think the BS’s manage it very well, but the undercurrent is there. In the end, they all attend college, graduate and hopefully go on to lead productive lives.</p>
<p>Fwiw my sister went to Amherst and then Harvard law. She’s perfectly fine academically</p>
<p>But refuses to speak to my aunt, as my aunt still devalues LACs and viewed her acceptance to that as still second tier to HYP whatever</p>
<p>One response to Sharpener’s post 140; when people who have been to boarding school AND HYPSM say that their boarding school connections were far more valuable than their HYP connections, I don’t think that you should be so quick to dismiss that as just a judgment call. It’s anecdotal experience, sure, but many people–including posters on this thread–have had it, and it’s more than you or I have direct experience with, so I’m inclined to value their experience. The fact that you are so dismissive of those stories is what I find incredibly frustrating here. </p>
<p>Ultimately, when you sum up the two main arguments others have made as nothing but “value judgments” (some are; some are have direct evidence to support them), you tell us that you’re not really listening to any of those arguments, though many have done their best to discern and listen to your argument. </p>
<p>I believe you when you say that you don’t care if your child goes to HYPSM or not. Nonetheless, it all comes down to this premise: boarding school has no value for you (and the supposed hordes of silent lurkers) outside its potential to get a child into HYPSM. If that’s the premise you’re willing to work from–a premise that no boarding school in the U.S. would entertain or accept–there’s really nothing to say. With ThacherMom, I wish we could take this thread back. Over and out.</p>
<p>@7Dad – Actually, I personally believe that “fit” is more important for boarding school as we are talking about impressionable, immature 13/14 year olds. So we see eye to eye there. (I was going to caveat my original statement, but didn’t want to bother. Looks like ultimately you drew it out of me anyways.)</p>
<p>But for college, we are talking about adults and my inclination is to have my kids attend the best place they get into (whatever “best” means) and have them learn to deal whatever bumps that come along… like an adult.</p>
<p>@Amandarin – Just as I suspected, it sounds like your sister is doing very well and dealt with the disappointment/trauma of being pulled out of boarding school. Glad to hear it.</p>
<p>@classicalmama – By “judgment call”, I wasn’t implying anything more than fact. They are “judgment calls”. If it sounded dismissive, that wasn’t the intent. I am considering all the input. Just know that this is still a decision in progress and my thinking continues to evolve, I don’t have the time to articulate all the machinations going on in my head.</p>
<p>@harvestmoon – “If your child has stats that are within the acceptance parameters of HYPSM, are you going to discourage the application?” BINGO! And +1 to your overall post! Your comment applies for first kid, and for those that accuse me of imposing my own dreams on my child, please know that my second does not show the same academic drive/ambition so we are supporting her in other “non-HYPSM” ways.</p>
<p>Finally, I don’t have the power to shut down this thread. Wish people would stop suggesting it. Can’t you just stop reading? And what is that people find so difficult to read? Is it views that run counter to the majority of the posters? Is that I appear to be unwavering in my position? I thought it would be differences that would make this forum more interesting. It is not my intent to offend and I believe I am being respectful/professional. But I do completely understand how folks (both on and off-line) could see my views as extreme and this forum gives me vehicle to voice them. For that I am appreciative.</p>
<p>How your daughter responds to being pulled out of a school she loves and is doing well in depends on what you said to her when you enrolled her, what you said when you told her you were considering pulling her out, whether you would consider enrolling her in a less expensive BS or private day school instead of sending her to your local school so she can save face, and what you do for your younger child. The last will affect not only your relationship with your daughter, but her relationship with her sibling.</p>
<p>You said your daughter “knew going in” what the purpose of BS was. What, exactly, did you tell her? ‘Do your best and look for leadership opportunities’ is different than ‘get straight A’s so you have a chance at getting into HYPSM’; the expectations you set up make a difference. I believe if she knew, at 14, that you and your siblings graduated from an Ivy the expectation that she should aspire to that was there whether it was overtly stated or not. The local cultural attitude you describe regarding Ivies would only reinforce it if not countered by you; your sending her to BS to increase her chances of getting into an Ivy would pretty much solidify in a teen’s mind that’s what your primary goal was, whether you explicitly told her that or not. I’m assuming from your posts that you did define that as THE goal. I hear you saying you don’t care whether or not your daughter attends an Ivy, but if you would let her stay at BS if you felt she had a shot at an Ivy and are pulling her out because you don’t feel she does, you’re going to have a tough time convincing your daughter that you don’t care. </p>
<p>How did you break the news to her that you may pull her out of BS next year? Did you give her other options (you can stay if you can pull your GPA up, or here’s a list of less expensive schools we can consider) or did you just tell her the Ivy thing doesn’t appear to be working out so BS isn’t worth the money? I haven’t heard you say you can’t afford BS and college too, so I’m wondering how you’re going to explain pulling her out without making her feel like a failure. If I’m understanding you correctly, the money you’re spending isn’t worth it if your daughter isn’t going to get into an Ivy, but your daughter is going to want her happiness to matter to you more than her ability to get accepted at HYPSM. If you make it clear to her that you’re pulling her out of BS because it’s not meeting your goals, that’s going to send an (unpleasant) message to her.</p>
<p>Would you enroll her in a less expensive BS or day school? If you pull her from a BS and send her back to a local public, the assumption is likely to be that she couldn’t handle the BS. That’s not fair to her. That’s depressing and I can only imagine how easily that could suck the motivation right out of a young person.</p>
<p>If your younger child develops the interest and aptitude to tackle an Ivy, will you send him/her to BS? If so, how do you expect both children to react to that? Especially if the younger child is admitted to an Ivy… your older child may end up believing that she, too, may have been accepted to an Ivy if you hadn’t made her switch schools. </p>
<p>I do have a friend whose children started in a private (day, not boarding) school who pulled them out. She hoped that by spending the money on private DS her children would be able to get into well known US colleges with plenty of merit aid. Although her children did well in school, she eventually came to realize there were no guarantees. She and her husband took a clear look at their finances and determined they could afford DS or college, but not both. Because my friend had changed schools as a child, she knew how difficult that can be and made sure to transition her children to public school at “natural” breaks (the beginning of middle school or high school, not halfway through). The reason it worked for their family is that the children were never told anything other than to do their best, and when they entered public school it was in grades where everybody in that grade was new to the school. (Our schools have separate elementary, middle, and high schools.) From what you’ve said you’ve already had conversations with your daughter about your goals for her and you’re too late for smooth transitions. </p>
<p>The best I could recommend, if you’re determined to pull her from this school, is to let her pick a different BS or day school. I would expect a certain amount of resentment. I’d also be prepared to accept fewer accomplishments. She won’t be at a new school long enough to get seniority (she may join a club but is unlikely to get a leadership role). If she’s depressed and her grades suffer, it may take a while to bring them back up. I don’t know how that would affect her chances at whatever “2nd tier” schools you have in mind, but I’d try to find out. She’ll be a junior next year? Has she taken the SATs or is she going to have to take them in the fall just after starting a new school? I don’t know what effect a major upheaval would have on her score, but I can’t imagine it will be good.</p>
<p>I wish your daughter the best.</p>
<p>I have hesitated to respond to this thread since my situation was different (poor kid attending parochial school)but thinking about it…it’s similar in some ways. I had parents who didn’t hide what they expected of me. I had to have straight A’s and god forbid if I didn’t…I never wanted to find out or disappoint them. So here I was, valedictorian of my 8th grade class, was accepted into the best all girls parochial school in NYC and that’s where things started to fall apart. New school, new teaching methods, new environment= mostly B’s and even a C. My parents were furious, disappointed and I was lost. I tried my best, did well but never at the top of the class like I was in my previous school…like I was “supposed” to be. At the end of my Sophomore year, I needed to attend summer school for Science. I did great and got a perfect mark for my summer class. That September (beginning of my junior yr) my parents told me that I wasn’t returning and would be attending our local (failing) HS. Their explanation was a mixed bag and not clear. I remember feeling like was a big disappointment and a failure. They said that since I wasn’t cutting it, why waste the money when they had two more tuitions to pay for…so I felt like they sacrificed me for the sake of keeping my siblings in the “good” schools. I didn’t recover for many years. The last two years of high school seemed like a waste. I had transferred with more than enough credits that I was taking mostly elective courses in a school that I was so unhappy in and that never cared for the students. The love of learning, the excitement for trying new things were all gone. I got depressed and need to see a school therapist (did this both junior and senior year). It was so rough that I felt alone and unloved. That wasn’t the truth because I wasn’t alone and I had a lot of love in my life…but the feeling that I let down the two most important ppl in my life was too much for me. I also felt like they didn’t believe in me or my abilities…felt like they didn’t think I was worthy of the private school education that my siblings were getting. I’m 45 yr olds and this still bothers me when I think back. This is something that they would never discuss and would totally deny if I did bring it up. So I will never attempt to discuss this with them. </p>
<p>Maybe other kids would’ve reacted differently but I’m giving you my story. I would hate for your daughter to feel like you don’t believe in her or lose that self confidence as I did. I went from a confident 14 yr old to someone who started to think she was stupid, dumb, less than. My parents decision and the way they went about it had such a profound effect on me. It took a lot of therapy for me find that self worth and confidence that was lost. I just needed to believe in myself and forget about feeling the need to please my parents. </p>
<p>As a mom of three (13,9,5), I have no IVY wishes for them. All I want for them is to attend the college of their choice and study their passions. Be true to themselves and never worry about what mom and dad want. I’ve told them we want them to be happy, passionate and good adults. I refuse to do to them what was done to me. I tell them constantly…you don’t need to be the best in your class…you need to be the best YOU! As long as I see you are doing your best, I’m happy! So far, I have children (especially the two older girls) who love school, aren’t scared to try, maybe fail and discuss it with me. I’ve taught them we learn from our mistakes…everyone does. </p>
<p>I hope whatever decision you choose, that you and your daughter’s relationship will be ok…and that she will not lose faith in herself if you choose to pull her from BS. </p>
<p>Good luck</p>
<p>thank you for that heartfelt story, NYCmom, full of lessons for readers</p>
<p>All parents need to recognize just how much the larger, more talented pool at the next higher rung will challenge children, not just academically, but athletically, musically, etc. It’s a new ball game in a new park, with referees whose standards may be very different as well. The well-prepped and achieving eighth grader should not expect a straight-line experience in high school; all the outcomes are driven by the new “local” factors, for better and for worse. These threads are full of testimony to this basic truth. </p>
<p>Try to find a fit that matches expectations; on this forum, you may be considering a BS where child is likely to run in the middle of the pack, or another one whose metrics indicate a higher class ranking might be possible. Your choice, what do you value? (a recent Malcolm Gladwell argument aired out on CC comes to mind) Most importantly, what school is going to be excited to admit an applicant who is pre-set to exit if their grades don’t match a certain A-B mix in just the first or second year? Don’t make that your own agenda unless EVERYBODY is on board with the plan ahead of time.</p>
<p>Realistic expectations (widely considered, to include ECs, social life, etc.) and goals are okay to talk about with kids, imho. Encourage improvement, a way to get from here to someplace better. Each kid responds to different incentives and methods, so there’s no standard approach here. Some parents who don’t appreciate the details of how BS is lived by kids need to be extra careful about how they formulate “realistic” goals, and recognize that the on-site teachers and classmates are a large factor now in how the child is motivated.</p>
<p>I’d speak to my freshman child quite differently than I do to a junior. Mind the gap!</p>
<p>"We, both parents and DC, too were very unhappy with our local options and decided to send our DC to boarding school.</p>
<p>I am a graduate of MIT and then a Harvard “graduate/professional school” and I am DEFINITELY trying to steer my DC towards an IVY.</p>
<p> there is the much greater likelihood that DC will not get the IVY acceptance. Will I consider my DC a failure if they don’t get to an IVY? Of course not. Will I be disappointed? In all honesty… yes. But my DC and both parents are committed to giving it our best shot. </p>
<p>Sharpener do these quotes look familiar?</p>
<p>Your childs best shot at getting into an Ivy League is by not changing schools.</p>
<p>@NYC – WOW!!! I do appreciate you sharing your story. It gave me a lot to think about. One question. How much of your “depression” was due to your siblings given the opportunity to attend an expensive private school, while you were not? Do you think that if ALL of you attended the same school you would have felt differently about yourself?</p>
<p>@Swimkidsdad - Who said all that? ;-)</p>
<p>@Sharpener- I think the majority of my depression came from feeling that my parents were disappointed in me, didn’t believe in me and my feeling of being a failure. I think I had more anger when it came to the thought of my sibs being able to stay in their privates while I forced to go to the local public school. The anger was never towards my siblings (this wasn’t their fault) but towards my parents. It was a very rough time for me emotionally. Being a teen is emotional and confusing as it is…but then to have the bottom kicked out from under you is an added stress that no kid should have to go through and most aren’t ready to handle. I do think that if my parents would have left all alone (me at my Hs and sibs at their elementary school), a lot would have been different. I was at a school that I liked. I wasn’t acing all of my courses but I was working hard and trying my best. I think if they really thought less about bragging rights (they LOVED to brag about their straight A, honor roll kids) and thought more about how they could help me do better…things would have been very different. But that’s all “what if”. I can tell you that it took years of soul searching, courage and discipline for me to find that self love again, that courage to trust in myself. It was a long journey and I wasn’t sorry to see it come to an end.</p>
<p>Sharpener, looks like you’re still here. I have a solution for you that neatly addresses all of your concerns. Your daughter can come home and perform at whatever level in her local option, you can save the BS money, and she can graduate in Harvard Yard guaranteed—and for a fraction of the cost of Harvard College. Have you considered Harvard Extension School? HES is a legitimate school of Harvard University. Students qualify based on taking and passing three “entrance” courses, which I’m sure your daughter’s BS has prepared her to pass, and can take full advantage of all Harvard resources. Students are required to complete at least one semester on campus in Cambridge, they graduate in the Yard along with everyone else, and receive a bona fide Harvard diploma. They spend the rest of their lives as Harvard alums with full rights and privileges. And you get the bragging rights. Voila!</p>
<p>ChoatieMom: although I vowed I was done on this thread, I couldn’t resist your post. Although I doubt the suggestion will work for the OP, I fully plan to suggest it to my kid. It would be fine by me!</p>
<p>
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<p>How does the possibility of being accepted into one of Harvard’s other programs address the concern that pulling her daughter out of a school she loves, is doing well in, and adamently doesn’t want to leave may affect her grades, attitude, and self-confidence?</p>
<p>Sorry if the sarcasm was lost in my post, but I don’t believe Sharpener has stated real concern for anything you list ErinMae. Sharpener is concerned about wasting his money on BS if it isn’t going to lead to any college his/her daughter can’t get into from home. The only value to BS, in Sharpener’s mind, is if it leads to an Ivy or Ivy-level college. My post actually does address all his/her concerns as stated.</p>
<p>We all feel for the daughter, but that doesn’t seem to be Sharpener’s main concern.</p>
<p>Sorry, ChoatieMom. I’ve been battling the flu and I will admit it flew directly over my head. Warp speed, even. Lol.</p>
<p>@Choate: The sarcasm came through loud and clear for me “you get the bragging rights”</p>
<p>…as did the judgmental tone. “We all feel for the daughter, but that doesn’t seem to be Sharpener’s main concern” </p>
<p>It’s when the judging starts that these threads start to get ugly. I hate even modestly dignifying your self-righteous comment about my lack of concern for my daughter. Judgment should be avoided, but if you even dare to feel you are in a position to do so <em>at least</em> read through previous posts. I won’t do your work for you and repeat myself, go back and take a look yourself.</p>
<p>BTW, when time comes I intend to share my decision on this board.</p>
<p>I sincerely wanted help thinking through my dilemma. And since I can’t possibly respond to or acknowledge all the questions and comments (because of my demanding day job), I do appreciate folks taking the time to offer their thoughts. ESPECIALLY those that have shared their intimate stories.</p>
<p>Two caveats to my promise, though. I probably don’t need to make this decision for ~2 months and more importantly, I have to be 10000% sure that sharing the decision won’t compromise my daughter’s identity.</p>
<p>So I ain’t going away. I started this thing, and I intend to finish it.</p>