<p>Mezzo, the NYC schools pretty much work the same way as any neighborhood public school system. Where you live determines your neighborhood school. The difference is that the failsafe clause that allows your district to send your child out of district if the school is overcrowded or other valid reason is coming into play in large numbers now… </p>
<p>These families moved into a place with the idea of sending their children to a school that they investigated and found acceptable. Now they are told that the school is full, the kids are on a waitlist for a spot in case some kids who are registered do not come, and otherwise, these kids will be assigned to another NYC school. The catch is that the school assignments are unknown until the waitlist situation becomes clearer so everyone is in limbo as to where the kids will be assigned. The assignments are not likely to be to schools as desirable as those are the schools that are full.</p>
<p>It would be the same if you should have a kindergardener and you assumed he would be going to your local school, only to find out that the school is full and you are told he will be assigned somewhere else if a seat doesn’t open up by the time the school year begins. You don’t know where your child will be assigned, but you know there are prospects that have fewer kids that you don’t want for your child.</p>
<p>“an economic downturn that makes private schools less appealing.”</p>
<p>There was an article in the NYTimes about a month ago about this very phenomenon. More people are having to suddenly look at the public school for which they are zoned, and not liking what they are seeing. Or if they do, they sign up and contribute to the overcrowding.</p>
<p>How do they determine who gets to get into the the classes at the neighborhood schools? Is it based on who registered first, siblings, or a lottery of all of those who registered? I would be very annoyed if I registered early, then had my child not go to the school because someone who registered much later won a lottery spot.</p>
<p>There are always those who have kids in a school that is not theirs. It happens everywhere, but in places like Manhattan where there is such a variance in quality among schools, it happens even more. Though the schools are on the lookout for this sort of thing, there are always those beating the system.</p>
<p>Wow. I guess The Overachievers by Alexandra Robbins wasn’t kidding when she said that competition is becoming so ridiculous, it’s creeping into the Kindergartens …</p>
<p>Thanks for the answers to my question, Kayf and Cpt. Now for some more…! This had to be a problem decades or more in the making; what is the NYC plan-of-action? Is it really just to shuffle kids around? I understand that when on an island one can’t just build new schools, since land is at a premium, but surely there must have been some creative and innovative solutions suggested over the years (whether they were considered politically/financially viable or not). Any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>I think the population of K’ers has increased dramatically. I dont know how you predict whether all those people moving into new condos would be kidless or have kids. We have a heck of a time predicting K enrollment in my small suburban district.</p>
<p>It starts at preschool. You need to be in a feeder preschool to get into the right kindergarten.</p>
<p>Our D1 was interviewed for her preschool then tested for kdgt. As you could imagine at age 4 any testing would be done through verbal communication. We didn’t prep our daughter because it was last minute that we decided to stay in NYC. OUr good friend got her son tutored for the test. When her son came out, he didn’t look happy. He told his mom that he didn’t like the man, so he didn’t talk to the man the whole time.</p>
<p>This is only empirical evidence, but I believe its accurate: 10-15 years ago, by the time their first kid was 4, between a third to half of the parents on Upper West Side, and a 1/4 to a 1/3 on UES moved out of the City. For the remaining, about 1/3 went to local publics (with some interlopers from “wrong” zones even then) and the rest went to privates. Since then as the City made such a great job of promoting itself as a great place to bring up kids, and seeing their neighbors either really liking the local publics or seeing their neighbors scraping for privates and realizing they too can pull it off, families are staying rather than moving to the suburbs. Also serves to contribute to real estate prices. Add to the equation the huge boom of 9/11 babies, and the fashion in some newly affluent families for 3 kids that take up private space, a more aggressive push on behalf of prep for prep and early steps to bring a new population (not necessarily living in Manhattan) to private kindergarden/7th and 9th grades,you have a situation of the past five or so years. With the economy down, people who scrambled with tuition, are rethinking it and looking at publics, and so on.</p>
<p>This can happen anywhere. Happened to us in the Rust Bowl when my current college freshman was kindergarten aged. This is the group of kids that is in the current couple of years of population surge for college. That and the affordable new housing that opened up with a beautiful new elemenatary school, caused a rush of families with young kids to move there. Too many kids to fit in that fine kindergarten complex. So some of them had to be placed in a former special ed school that was being closed as those kids had to be mainstreamed by a new law that was going into effect then. Oh, how the parents screamed, howled, complained. And this was not dangerous, dirty, or even of a lower instructional level as the kids all came from the same area. It was a simple problem of space. But there were a lot of parents who yelled foul.</p>
<p>In NYC, it’s a worse situation because the alternatives could be unsafe and not a good place for you child to learn. But theoretically, they are all NYC schools, and it makes sense and has always been the case to send surplus kids from one school over to another NYC school. Cost effective that way. PS 1 is over crowded, but PS 2 lost kids that year and has a smaller population, plenty of space. With space a premium in Manhattan, you can’t expand the school easily, and the other schools are usually not that far anyways. It’s efficient just to send the kids there.</p>
<p>The other problem is that people are kind of stuck right now. They don’t have the money for NYC private school in the numbers that used to be, many are stuck in condos they can’t sell or rent without losing money, and they can’t afford to move right now. </p>
<p>Though the problem is an old one, those affected now are loud and angry. Many of the schools with lots of space are those schools where any parent who lived in such a district and cared about their kid’s education and could do something about it would move. Those districts and schools ended up being warehouses for those who couldn’t or didn’t care. You get the drift of this, I’m sure. </p>
<p>The answer would be…BUSING so that all of the schools have the same mix of families who care and are involved with the schools. That way the nasty schools would have to literally clean up their acts. But these things don’t happen quickly, and no one wants to fight these battles with their 5 year old kid on the frontline, only for future kids to benefit. Too many special interests involved. So that is how the problems sits, right now.</p>
<p>No joke, flash cards the whole nine yard. There are some preschools that actually pride themselves in preppy those kids for the test. To think, my 4 year old took it cold. They determined my kid was off the chart smart.:)</p>
<p>Oldfort is not kidding. If you live in some cities, getting your child into the right school is important. It is not all about prestige either. With private schools, if you get your kids to one where most of your friends and neighbors have their kids, it makes your life easier and sweeter. The cost is often the same, anyways compared to other private schools. </p>
<p>I found myself in this rat race with my oldest. WE lived down town, and nearly all of the kids I knew in my high rise building went to a few of the schools. EVeryone would car pool, swap errands, help out,etc. It made life ever so much easier if my son was in one of the select schools. </p>
<p>So these schools get more applicants than spaces so they have to count the “triple loops and lutzes” of childhood achievement. IF you don’t know how the danged system works, it’s not a bad idea to hire someone to work with your kid so he knows how to act at the interview. There are a few things they seem to often want. They like the kid to draw a self picture, for instance. They look for kids who are socially compatible with other kids. So if you tell your kid how to act with someone who knows guiding you, you just might have a chance. Oh, the older kids should always be ready to discuss a couple of books. My second one got lots of points I’m sure because he had a book tucked in his pocket that he was reading (thank goodness it was a good one and not Pokemon). The admissions person mentioned it to me several times.</p>
<p>As were his/her parents for not wasting money on flash cards.</p>
<p>This is a bit off-topic but tonight I was in a bookstore and strolled into the SAT/AP prep guide area. Wow, there are a lot of ridiculous books on those shelves. I need to write one and start making money.</p>
<p>Cpt – I am not aware of any private schools in Manhattan or that cater to Manhattan (eg Horace Mann) that are having a decrease in enrollment. Yes, more parents are asking for finad, but I havent hear of enrollment actually going down. </p>
<p>I do think that many elemenatary schools which are zoned by neghborhood, are attractive – HSs not so much, other than a couple in the outer boroughs and of course the selective HSs. </p>
<p>I dont know of too many cases where busing has been succesful. It was court ordered in Yonkers (not even a city of great schools), and many whites just moved out.</p>
<p>None of the independent, selective schools that screened my kids in 4 cities were interested in how advanced they were academically. It was stuff like behavior, speech, interest, etc that they eyed in the lower grades. In high school, it pretty much came down to test scores. </p>
<p>In NYC, once the kids hit high school age, they take a test to get into the high schools of choice. Schools like Stuyvessant, Bronx Science are the most favored.</p>