KP status?

<p>You know what disgruntled I THINK YOU NEED TO TAKE SOME OF THESE DRUGS YOU TALK ABOUT!! YOUR MISERABLE! And BTW as a football parent how dare you accuse my son of this criminal act. No my head is not in the sand, I'm just a parent that brought her kid up to know right from wrong.</p>

<p>One thing that KP has been VERY slow to catch onto is developing some sort of tug and barge program. To the best of my knowledge, we are the only maritime school in the country that doesn't have a class or some sort of program to promote this very important and rapidly expanding part of the maritime industry. Let's face it: the deep-sea U.S. fleet is a tiny fraction of what is used to be and probably isn't getting any bigger in the near future. Meanwhile, tug companies are begging for licensed mariners and the pay and working conditions are much better than they used to be. I know a good number of my classmates who want to go right into tugs upon graduation. There is definitely demand within the regiment for this. </p>

<p>There were so many tug companies that showed up at the Sea Fair last year, all eagar to make some contacts with midshipmen, yet there were a couple shipping companies that were no-shows, simply because they weren't hiring and weren't anticipating having to do so in the near future. </p>

<p>We have the capability to do this (McAllister, in particular, has been very excited to promote their company at KP and have taken on mids for weekend trips, as well as sea-year training).</p>

<p>Unfortunately, right now, KP is behind on this and perhaps some of the "rethinking" of the school's mission should be to adapt to the present-day industry demands.</p>

<p>Very good post in all of this. Some constructive thinking...I like it!</p>

<p>USMMA really needs some creative thinking to break through the mess it is in. I really don't have too much confidence that the government will find the creative personnel needed to remake the school for today's environment. First of all, the salaries for the top administrators are government levels, poor by industry standards. Most top government officials really make money after they leave the government and go into private industry. There is no path for a top admin leaving USMMA.</p>

<p>This leaves the shipping and transportation industry to push for the changes at the school that will serve them for the next half century. Do they really care if their "talent" comes from a state school or a national school?</p>

<p>Another path could be to co-utilize the existing facilities to drive the operating cost down. Having the Navy locate a new SWO school on campus could help infuse cash and drive utilization rates up for the existing infrastructure. I'm sure that there are other government agencies that would fit very well with the capabilities that currrently exist at KP and could even expand the possibilites for the students.</p>

<p>As I said in an earlier post, I recall "mission statement" problems along with budget problems going on at KP for a long time. The school really needs a champion in DC to step up and chart its course for the future.</p>

<p>In the great American tradition, it is likely any problems will be ignored until: [a] somebody dies, ** somebody dies, or [c] it goes away.</p>

<p>Creatively thinking government employees. A true oxymoron. </p>

<p>Good luck to USMMA supporters and students; sounds as if you need it.</p>

<p>Phi313.
Who are you supporting for Congress?</p>

<p>My suggestion would be to have one of our entrepreneurial KP grads take over. We apparently have many who are CEO's and the like. I agree KP needs some serious direction, but for those of you posting here who have never BEEN to the school, you should take the time to go there and see the determination and fortitude of these students. </p>

<p>I have been quite impressed and am usually not easily so. These students stick together, help each other and in most cases, shine bright. </p>

<p>They are giving their best every day and for those of you passing judgement, sitting in your lazy-boys, shame on YOU! </p>

<p>I am proud of my son and all the other students who go to KP, have pride in their school and do their best every day. </p>

<p>I don't have my head in the sand thinking that KP has no problems or that there are students there who do NOT care, but the lion share of students are putting forth their best effort.</p>

<p>Those of you who disagree, just go up and talk to them.</p>

<p>I second your thoughts exactly kathy!!! Very well said.</p>

<p>
[quote]
August 22, 2008
Maritime academy grads find jobs
Approximately 85 percent of 2008 graduates with merchant marine licenses from the United States Merchant Marine Academy and six state maritime academies have found employment afloat in the maritime industry or in the U.S. military, according to data released by the Maritime Administration today.
"This data indicates that the job market for merchant marine officers remains robust," said U.S. Maritime Administrator Sean T. Connaughton. "There is a growing, worldwide demand for fully-trained merchant marine officers and licensed mariners. Excellent training combined with ongoing global trade expansion will continue to make the graduates of U.S. maritime colleges among the most qualified and employable mariners in the world.
Total employment for 2008 licensed graduates is already more than 95 percent. This number includes those who have found shoreside employment in the maritime industry. One of the academies, Great Lakes in Traverse City, Michigan, has placed 100 percent of its 2008 graduates in maritime afloat employment.
The Maritime Administration operates the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy and provides funding and training ships to Maine, Massachusetts, Texas, California, Great Lakes Maritime Academies, and the State University of New York Maritime College. The U.S. Merchant Marine Academy is a federal service academy, and the state maritime academies are all part of their respective state higher education systems.
Employment for 2008 Graduates of U.S. Maritime Colleges: August 2008

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The study shows an interesting chart on the numbers as well:</p>

<p>SHIPPING</a>, SHIPBUILDING AND OFFSHORE NEWS</p>

<p>USMMA 100 % grads licensed, comissioned in reserves or active duty military. And employed in Maritime industry. Except 1 in grad school and another grad doing something else. The state schools all lagging well behind. Except great lakes. The difference between state school grads and usmma grads. The state school grads duty is to themselves for the majority of them. And KP grads duty is to our country.</p>

<p>It all looks good in news releases. However, sometimes the real world doesn't measure up. I had dinner this week with a couple of KP grads who had less than a year of sea time between them, one on tugs and the other on a ferry boat. They both then spent a year or so working in ports and then one went back home to become a fire fighter and the other works as a defense contractor in DC. They both admitted not caring for underway life so their claim that there were no sea going jobs might be taken with a grain of salt. The thing that bothers me is that both have either met their obligation or have had it waived.</p>

<p>Can't speak to individual people, but my understanding would be that the service obligation (5 years in Active Duty, or 8 years in Industry) would have to be fulfilled. Historically, they seemed to be waived more easily. THAT is no longer the case.. much like West Point and NA have tightened up on their waivers -- insisting on Active Duty now more strongly than they did in the past , when athletes wanted to be drafted by pro sports teams. for instance.</p>

<p>If you are implying that their duty needed to be actually AFLOAT, then please chat us up again after you let the Navy and Marine Corps folks doing logistics that they need water under their feet to be really fulfilling their obligation. ;) [ Military Logistics is an especially thankless job... if you don't have the bullets AND the toilet paper where it's needed, SOMEBODY'S having a tough time ]</p>

<p>I'm sure it is especially troublesome with spending that much effort training officers and having them do the whole 'five-and-dive' (not going past their initial contractual obligation and continuing within the services). Solving the front side (waivers) of that equation will be helpful for all services. Solving the Back side (retention) of that equation is a tougher problem.</p>

<p>Don't mistake my making a tongue-in-cheek humor with not respecting the hugely pivotal task it is. </p>

<p>I genuinely and truly admire the difficulty of Military Logistics, and how thankless and utterly important it is. I do not want you to imply otherwise. ...
Logistics is and remains "a thankless but critically important task" no matter WHO you are doing it for-- direct quote, from one of MANY military officers responsible for logistics during Desert Storm and subsequent OIF operations ). </p>

<p>Your point seemed to be that the 2 kp grads didn't have water under their feet as their only method of repaying service. Others, perhaps yourself included, might be unaware that shoreside jobs have been a genuine way of fulfilling that obligation. That portion, however, is being severely scrutinized, and must be absolutely mission-critical ( the definition used to be looser. That was a problem. That's been fixed now). </p>

<p>KPer can also join NOAA, and fulfill their obligation that way... but flying into hurricanes, although exhilarating, would take a special kind of individual. </p>

<p>Don't worry, 69, about me and my conversation. Nor draw too quick a conclusion on the facts. Very respectfully.</p>

<p>This topic appears to have been fully developed, and run off-target. Sorry for straying off topic. I suspect this closes productive discussion on it as well.
Have a great weekend.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Let me make this real simple. KP is 'advertising' right now that all their graduates are sailing. It is the new requirement. However, graduates from a few years back have not been able to find sailing jobs and have been forced to go ashore. I have not read where the US merchant marine fleet has increased substantially. So, are there really more openings available? I simply pointed out that two recent graduates each spent less than three years each between an initial seasonal sailing billet and a subsequent pier side inter modal job before going on to their ultimate civilian careers. Neither has had to pay back anything. If the jobs were not there five years ago, why should we think that they are there now?</p>

<p>It's totally irrelevant remarks such as this which causes your total discussion to be ignored:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>USNA has never allowed anyone to avoid Active Duty. And in the entire history of the Academy we can count on one hand the number of athletes who have been allowed a reduced active duty commitment commensurate with an increased reserve commitment.</p>

<p>How do you know they can't find jobs ? Or don't want to find jobs. The facts for the marine log article are the what the recent grads are doing,all 211 of them. I know that hardly compares to idle dinner table conversation.</p>

<p>It is immaterial whether they couldn't find jobs or were uninterested in doing so. The simple fact is that they didn't. My question is what has happened in the last five years or so that causes jobs to be available now that were not available then. Someone pointed out earlier on this very thread that shipping companies are not showing up at job fairs because they have no openings. There have been several conversations on this very forum over the last year or so stating that the US Flag jobs are just not there. By 'requiring' graduates to go to sea, how many are forced to take seasonal tug and ferry jobs that will not be available to them the following year? Are they displacing students from the state maritime schools who truly want to sail? Are the companies downgrading experience requirements in order to capture this new cheaper mandatory asset? Forcing the more experienced who have completed their KP obligation to have to go offshore for jobs?</p>

<p>My question is how can a school double the supply to a customer who has not doubled his requirements without upsetting the apple cart?</p>

<p>Someone mentioned creative thinking. My rather naive understanding is that the US Flag fleet is abysmal. Maybe we need to force our lawmakers to increase the requirements of US Flag carried cargo rather than force jobs where they don't exist.</p>

<p>I can only interupt what I read in the marine log article. Look at it again. It seems there are a substainial amount of State school grads who aren't licensed. They couldn't get 3rd mate officer jobs, even if they wanted to.The data provided states all recent grads of usmma are in compliance with their obligation. You need more evidence than dinner talk and internet noise to reffute those facts. Maybe the article in question is KP propaganda bull s**t. I really have no Idea. But at least I can admit that.</p>

<p>Something that you all have missed in your insane arguments is the fact that even if a KP grad does not work in the blue or gray water fleet they are STILL obligated to 8 years of Military reserve duty. If any of you don't think that's serving our country then you can call the little girl who's daddy or mommy has been in Iraq for the past year because they were called up from the reserves and explan it to them.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Minimally, yes. You are correct. However, don't compare a single deployment to the other SA's graduates, some of whom are on their fourth deployment doing the same.</p>

<p>


</p>