LACs -- why would you go to one?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I don't mean any disrespect to those who are attending or are planning to attend a liberal arts college, but so far, I don't get why people would want another four years of somewhat-general education, considering they've already had years of that before. Opinions?</p>

<p>My knowledge of LACs comes from this page:</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That, and rankings of LACs, which I was surprised when I was them 'cause I'd recognized more names than I thought I would (because of the people on CC who talk about them often).</p>

2

<p>From wikipedia:
"Following completion of their undergraduate studies at liberal arts colleges, graduates often do obtain specialized training by going to other institutions, such as professional schools (for instance, in business, law, medicine, or theology) or graduate schools."</p>

<p>Many graduate/professional schools do not require you to have a specific undergrad degree to apply to their programs (ie, you don't need "political science" for law school). Like colleges, graduate programs want people who are not only well rounded but have the necessary analytical skills emphasized by LACs (not saying other schools don't cultivate that). The "general education" of LACs also isn't as "general ed" as it's made out to be. Many people attend LACs for specific programs (like natural sciences). They take higher level classes with specific content and focus just as you would at another school that isn't a LAC. </p>

<p>Furthermore, a lot of students in their undergrad experience are really just exploring since they're undecided about what occupation they want to pursue; the LACs I know of (Hampshire, ie) are more accommodating for this by providing a lot of options and leeway with curriculum.</p>

3

<p>Some people like the small classes at LACs. Some people don't like the social scene at huge universities.</p>

4

<p>Every president of a liberal arts college has a standard speech about the values of a liberal arts education, and many of these will say it more eloquently than anyone could do for you in a short post. Here is a whole page with links to scores of such speeches and articles. I think that the one by Thomas Cronin "The Art of Leadership" is a good one to get some sense of the difference between the four years of general education in high school and the nature of a liberal education. Here's an eloquent description of that crux:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The liberal-arts tradition is an educational philosophy more than a body of knowledge and is as much concerned with the process of learning as it is with content. Thus, this approach views learning as a verb rather than a noun, as an ongoing process of questioning, searching, probing, exploring.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.aacu.org/advocacy/leap/speeches_articles.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aacu.org/advocacy/leap/speeches_articles.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=cronin25&date=20040425%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=cronin25&date=20040425&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

5

<p>Thank you. =)</p>

6

<p>The resources might be a bit mmore limited, but the education wouldnt be far off from thta of a national unviersity undergrad program. </p>

<p>Major advantages include smaller classes, much closer ties and accessibility to professors, less intimidating social scene, less restrictive curriculum ,and everything is usually availible since there arent many people on campus.</p>

<p>Ranking is guess is due to a number of factors though I think endowment is a mjor factor as well as the selectivity of the college.</p>

7

<p>personally, i dont understand why someone would want to go to a huge private school, such as BU or GW. the most expensive schools in the country, and you're just a number. why not go to a large public for a fraction of the cost?</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
personally, i dont understand why someone would want to go to a huge private school

[/quote]
Not every state is blessed with a State U that is reasonably ranked or of good quality. At many of the large privates they still try to provide a semblance of what a smaller school does. This means each student has a faculty advisor, classes might be smaller, the faculty may interested in instructing undergrads and not just the grad students, alumni are supportive and in contact with students to get them internships and jobs after graduation, and so on. </p>

<p>This is not guaranteed just because you're paying the big bucks for the private school; anyone considering a large private should do serious investigation to make sure they're getting something they can't get at a fraction of the cost at their public U's.</p>

<p>Also, don't confuse the sticker price with what a student necessarily pays. Most people don't pay the price on the window for a car, and many don't pay the price on the college website for a college education. There is often considerable room for negotiation.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
personally, i dont understand why someone would want to go to a huge private school, such as BU or GW. the most expensive schools in the country, and you're just a number. why not go to a large public for a fraction of the cost?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is not guaranteed just because you're paying the big bucks for the private school; anyone considering a large private should do serious investigation to make sure they're getting something they can't get at a fraction of the cost at their public U's.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would challenge the implication that everybody at those large private schools is really paying the 'big bucks'. What I have found is that private schools are often times more aggressive when it comes to aid than are the public schools, such that for some people, it is actualy CHEAPER for them to go to the private school. I know some people who got full merit rides to go to BU when their public school wouldn't give them anything. And the public school in question wasn't that good anyway. Given the choice between having to pay to go to a mediocre public school or go to BU for free, which would you prefer? Seems like a no-brainer to me.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I don't mean any disrespect to those who are attending or are planning to attend a liberal arts college, but so far, I don't get why people would want another four years of somewhat-general education, considering they've already had years of that before. Opinions?</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yet that sort of 'general' education is precisely what most students get at the research universities. Take Berkeley for example. Most Berkeley students are in the College of Letters & Science, and are therefore also getting a 'general' liberal arts education.</p>

11

<p>As has been said, liberal arts colleges are particularly good at preparing students for graduate or professional school. While I am not impressed with the criteria it uses, this is why you will see that the WSJ "Feeder School" Rankings placed several top LACs above many of the more prestigious major universities.</p>

12

<p>to the op, what do you want to study? do you want to be one dimensional? imagine a world full of people who ONLY studied one subject</p>

<p>my H went to a technical college in Ireland to study architecture...but he really enjoyed his history, english and economic classes</p>

<p>so many people change degrees, etc, thinking they want to study one thing, realizing that once they are immeresed in it, it was a bad choice</p>

<p>to some, learning for the sake of learning is a good thing...why do people study philosophy, world religions, literature...because it is important </p>

<p>if you can't undersstand learning and knowledge for its own sake, you really need to expand your world vision</p>

13

<p>I heard a Stanford Professor talking about the importance of taking philosophy for a variety of careers...to create a whole person</p>

<p>I wouldn't want a doctor who was clueless about human nature, nor an architect who didn't understand nature</p>

14

<p>sakky:</p>

<p>"I would challenge the implication that everybody at those large private schools is really paying the 'big bucks'"</p>

<p>You would challenge anything, I'm beginning to find.</p>

<p>"What I have found is that private schools are often times more aggressive when it comes to aid than are the public schools"</p>

<p>Aggressive?</p>

<p>"I know some people who got full merit rides to go to BU when their public school wouldn't give them anything."</p>

<p>More anecdotal evidence to support your claims?</p>

<p>"Given the choice between having to pay to go to a mediocre public school or go to BU for free, which would you prefer? Seems like a no-brainer to me."</p>

<p>You're forgetting one thing: very few get full rides. And you're ignoring that it's not just price that factors into one's choice, so it might not be a "no-brainer."</p>

<p>"Yet that sort of 'general' education is precisely what most students get at the research universities."</p>

<p>No.</p>

<p>"Take Berkeley for example."</p>

<p>How coincidental an example.</p>

<p>"Most Berkeley students are in the College of Letters & Science, and are therefore also getting a 'general' liberal arts education."</p>

<p>... most students at Berkeley are indeed at L&S but are majoring in something more specific. They aren't required to take all these arts/humanities/blahblahblah. The breadth requirement, I don't think, can be considered akin to a liberal arts education, either. There are marked differences between L&S and a LAC, as I'm sure you know. =)</p>

15

<p>citygirlsmom:</p>

<p>"to the op, what do you want to study? do you want to be one dimensional? imagine a world full of people who ONLY studied one subject"</p>

<p>I want to major in psychology and linguistics. I'm pretty passionate about both, so it's unlikely that I'd end up wanting to switch, but it's possible. </p>

<p>"to some, learning for the sake of learning is a good thing"</p>

<p>I quite agree.</p>

<p>"...why do people study philosophy, world religions, literature...because it is important"</p>

<p>Mhm, I had planned a long time ago to get a degree in philosophy, eventually. Theology and anthropology are two areas that I would definitely go for. And for the longest, I'd planned on majoring in English and psych, but that changed, obviously.</p>

<p>Perhaps a LAC wouldn't be a bad choice after all. =)</p>

<p>In the end, though, I've found that I've had enough "general education" over the years and am now ready to do what I want. Being an independent person, I will probably study various areas on my own, for my own enrichment and not for a piece of paper that "validates" my knowledge.</p>

16

<p>I ask myself why someone wouldn't want to go to a liberal arts college.</p>

<p>i personally love the idea of a liberal arts college. i think it is the best route for a student who is still undecided as to what they want to do coming out of school, or don't know what they want to major in. You get a well rounded education. </p>

<p>What happened to learning for the sake of learning? </p>

<p>National Research Universities seem like the place for people to go just so that they can end up with a diploma that will hopefully land them a job, so that they can fit middle America. Kind of like High School, I can bet that most all of CC'ers take classes in high school to get into college, and not for the sake of learning.</p>

17

<p>I think personally that most colleges are too expensive...I wouldn't pay 40.000+ $ to study at Vassar for exemple when you have schools like UNC chapel hill, UVA , UCLA ,berkely..that would cost almost 1/2 of the price..the classe might the bigger but i doubt you would have a better education at a small college</p>

18

<p>I agree with pateta00.</p>

<p>liek0806:</p>

<p>I don't know about you, but I'm going to be majoring in linguistics because I love it, not because it will land me a job.</p>

<p>Also, LACs might not be the best route for undecided students, because LACs don't offer all the majors that a student may potentially take.</p>

<p>For many, they're majoring in something because they love the field and, what's more, they'll get a diploma that will probably get them a job in that field.</p>

<p>And I'm sure that most students have taken classes, etc. simply to get into a college. I know I have. (Pfft, as if I actually <em>liked</em> AP US History... haha).</p>

19

<p>When i started doing my college search first i wanted a small private college but then after visiting some larger schools i realised that in fact a larger institution offers more in terms of academic programs , more research and research related facilities which is a big plus for eng. and science related majors .Most of the time the so called Huge classes are only few lecture classes and once you have reached your intended "field" most of classes become small.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Aggressive?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Aggressive, meaning that they tend to give out more generous financial aid if you are poor.</p>

<p>Let's take Harvard as an example. Consider Harvard's policy towards students whose families make less than 60k. Basically, Harvard has committed itself to a policy of reducing the contribution of such families to zero. Berkeley refuses to commit itself to such a policy. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/03/30-finaid.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2006/03/30-finaid.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
More anecdotal evidence to support your claims?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What's wrong with anecdotal evidence? Somebody asked why anybody would ever attend BU. I gave an example of why certain people would. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You're forgetting one thing: very few get full rides. And you're ignoring that it's not just price that factors into one's choice, so it might not be a "no-brainer."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First off, the fact that few get full rides is irrelevant. Somebody wanted to know why some people want to go to BU, and that's a reason to go.</p>

<p>In the context of this thread, it is indeed a no-brainer. After all, the context was about money. Nobody else raised the issue of fit or location before, and I don't want to get bogged down into those details now. The point stands - sometimes private schools can actually be CHEAPER than public schools. </p>

<p>
[quote]
.. most students at Berkeley are indeed at L&S but are majoring in something more specific. They aren't required to take all these arts/humanities/blahblahblah. The breadth requirement, I don't think, can be considered akin to a liberal arts education, either. There are marked differences between L&S and a LAC, as I'm sure you know. =)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Huh? What, so you don't think that students in LAC's aren't majoring in something specific too? </p>

<p>Furthermore, why don't you check out the actual curriculum of the LAC's. Most of them don't have arts/humanities breadth requirements that are significantly different from what Berkeley L&S has. For example, if you go to a LAC and major in a science, you will often times not be required to take any more humanities/arts than you would if you had gone to Berkeley and majored in a science. Obviously this varies from LAC to LAC but you cannot say as a general rule that everybody at at LAC has to take a bunch of extra arts courses. Again, check out the curriculas of the various LAC's and convince yourself that this is the case. </p>

<p>Hence, no, I don't see any marked differences in the curriculum of the LAC's and Berkeley L&S. There is obviously a big difference in terms of overall environment of the school, but that's not what we are really talking about, now is it?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, LACs might not be the best route for undecided students, because LACs don't offer all the majors that a student may potentially take.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, if you're going to use that logic, then I think you would have to agree that a school that has lots of impacted majors may not be the best route either, for the same reason. It doesn't matter if your school has lots of choices for majors, if you can't get into the major that you want. To you, it would be as if the school didn't even offer the major at all.</p>