<p>Nope, until someone tells me EXACTLY which notebook to get, specs and all.</p>
<p>Liquid,</p>
<p>For what you need, I'd grab an iBook G4 12" configured with 512 MB RAM and an 80 GB hard drive. It will set you back $1,000 after $100 mail-in rebate.</p>
<p>or </p>
<p><a href="http://dell.com%5B/url%5D">http://dell.com</a> and build what you need.</p>
<p>Read my posts above - 3-4x the tech for your buck, and you'll be thanking me when your websites display correctly (don't need to use open source browser or slow IE port), you'll have real office software, once again not a slow and unstable port (90% of what you need cpu in college for), and you can run the programs you need for statistic, physics, engineering, chemistry, and biology without having to trudge through the snow to the computer lab.</p>
<p>If you get a mac you'll be disappointed. It's not worth making the "switch". My roommate w/ a 17 inch powerbook is already counting down the seconds before he can make the "switch back".</p>
<p>The 3-4x tech for your buck is a lie... websites display just fine on the Mac, and Microsoft Office for Mac is written natively.</p>
<p>In terms of the programs, most stuff comes for Mac or UNIX.</p>
<p>Macs are better machines with a superior OS and software.</p>
<p>Go use a Mac at an Apple Store or Apple Reseller. You'll see why people love the platform.</p>
<p>I got my Dell for $900 with stellar specs. I've used Macs and PCs equally for 10 years, and I still can't stand the Mac interface.</p>
<p>Dell-- 9.4 lbs, 1.6in thick
Apple-- 6.9lbs 1.0 in thick</p>
<p>Apple wins. Period. A laptop is made to move. The only PC platform laptop that does as much and moves as well at the price is the Thinkpad. Strange that Apple has the best relationship with their only competitor in this area (well, not that it is now Lenovo).</p>
<p>Maize, the fact htat you disreguard the fact that clock speed on the CPU doesn't translate directly like that shows you have little or no knowledge of computers.</p>
<p>Have you ever used OSX? I wouldn't say it's a hog at all, it seems to be that OSX does more far more efficiently than XP does, and I use XP Pro and will continue to on a desktop until Apple's are more viable in that area.</p>
<p>Also, it's pretty well known that Apple's will last you longer than the average PC and still work fine, actually. Again, have you used Apple's?</p>
<p>"Actually I think os x is counter intuitive - it isn't what most people are used to -and 99% of it's best features the average user will never see, know of, or use."</p>
<p>That's a load of bull too. OSX is probably the most intuitive OS. We all know how to use Windows, but it would take someone less than 2 hrs to find most features they are used to and become quite proficient on OSX by far. Probably less than one hour. It's far more simple than XP-- that's a great thing if you ask me. I am tired of tweaking my registry and tons of values. Don't you ever just want something to turn on? Turn options on, or off. Set the basic settings and it works well and optimized essentially.</p>
<p>It really is a VERY simple OS and to dismiss it because people don't knwo better is perhaps evidence that you don't. Thanks for the heads up on the extra 100 off, I have to really start looking close now.</p>
<p>What's wrong with open source browsers? From someone who was mad about not being able to use Linux, which you can, that's what Linus, Linux's orignator, uses. I use Firefox because it's not a piece of **** like IE, and I wouldn't dream of going back.</p>
<p>$40 for a licence? ********. $17-- my mom does the ordering for over three thousand workstations in a high school district.</p>
<p>Pete-- you are ****ing me up with this $100 rebate...</p>
<p>Well, I do know that the University of Minnesota offers licenses to students as part of the bulk licensing program.</p>
<p>They're about $60-$70, if memory serves me correct.</p>
<p>I guess Brown doesn't do this (they also don't need to buy anywhere near as many licenses).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Maize, the fact htat you disreguard the fact that clock speed on the CPU doesn't translate directly like that shows you have little or no knowledge of computers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually it does after you factor in the platform. If apple HAD any games or serious applications you would know that, and you would see them run slower (on top of the fact that if these games or apps exist at all, they are bulky ports).</p>
<p>If you're just going to surf the internet, talk on aim, and email than by all means get an mac if you really want to. Sure, some websites won't display correctly. It's not a major hassel, but it does happen. (in firefox, colored "</p><div>" boxes don't display properly - those lines aren't supposed to be crooked when viewing the news on the side of the main Yahoo page, for example)<p></p>
<p>If you're going to take any serious physics, math, stats, biology, chemistry, or engineering classes don't get a mac.(yes, you can find comparable software for macs, but it isn't the SAME software. It's often open source with no documentation or help available outside obscure message boards. It's not what you're seeing examples of in class and it's just one more hassle trying to reteach yourself and you'll be kicking yourself marching through the snow to get to software you know how to use)</p>
<p>If you're going to be doing any image stuff - windows hands down. Photoshop and all its plugins don't port well and that extra ram, hard-drive space, superior video card and cpu speed that windows laptops have, but as you say "don't matter" start to matter when trying to render complex images. (video editing is another story macs have a slight edge because of superior software - on desktops anyway, I have doubts as to how well a 1ghz laptop will be able to handle it).</p>
<p>If you're going to be doing any programming see above.</p>
<p>If you ever want to use any other "intensive" software or play any genre of video game see above (that's assume, at some point, intensive software, or a game comes out for mac - usually they don't). The last game mac did better than the PC was number munchers circa 1986. By the time of Oregon trail, it was all over ;)</p>
</div>
<p>Maize, do you even know what you're talking about?</p>
<p>The largest laptop hard drive currently in mass production for consumers tops out at 100 GB. Both Apple and other computer manufacturers offer these models in their laptops.</p>
<p>Apple supports 2 GB of RAM in their laptops, more than enough for the majority of Photoshop users.</p>
<p>Do you even understand how Photoshop plug-ins operate? Let alone how a CPU operates? Clockspeed is bunk. As soon as processors became able to do more than one computation in one cycle, clockspeed's validity dropped considerably. Why do you think AMD and Apple have lower clockspeeds than a Pentium? They're more efficent.</p>
<p>It's hillarious when I'm sitting next to a PC user on say, a Dell. They turn on their big laptop that is twice the size of mine and a huge fan powers on to cool the beast. The only time I hear my fan kick in is while my laptop is on a pillow or while doing some constant video encoding -- otherwise, it's silent.</p>
<p>Programming? Macs are built on a solid UNIX foundation and come bundled with [Xcode[/url</a>], including the latest GCC compiler and more. It's the fastest way to develop.</p>
<p>"Intensive" software? Can we get some direct examples of these biology and physics applications you keep speaking of? Many of my friends in graduate and PhD programs at the U of MN use Apple products -- they get along just fine.</p>
<p>I will concede that Macs will have a smaller selection of games; however, the larger developers will produce non-ported versions of their games (for instance, Blizzard Entertainment). I haven't found myself struggling to find good games to run on my Mac -- though to be honest, I don't really consider myself a hard-core gamer. I do more work with Photoshop, Final Cut, and web development.</p>
<p>[url="<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx%22%5DMac">http://www.apple.com/macosx"]Mac</a> OS X Tiger](<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/%22%5DXcode%5B/url">http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/) has changed the way I my computer. Can your PC do [url="<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/theater/spotlight.html%22%5Dthis%5B/url">http://www.apple.com/macosx/theater/spotlight.html"]this[/url</a>]? Maybe in 2006, no wait, 2007... well, whenever Longhorn comes out. Maybe by the time we graduate from Brown M$ will start delivering on their promises for a next-generation OS -- in the meantime, Apple is innovating.</p>
<p>Yes, I'm quite aware of how photoshop and its plugins operate, and I'm aware that not all plugins work on the mac, and that photoshop itself runs slower.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's hillarious when I'm sitting next to a PC user on say, a Dell. They turn on their big laptop that is twice the size of mine and a huge fan powers on to cool the beast. The only time I hear my fan kick in is while my laptop is on a pillow or while doing some constant video encoding -- otherwise, it's silent
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Funny you should mention that. I'll assume that even you'll admit that the powerbooks need an upgrade. Niether their chipset nor the price has changed since they came out 2 (3?) years ago. Unfortunately, the g5's run so damn hot they'll never make it into a laptop in their current form(which might have made a powerbook worth buying). Hell, they need a liquid coolant mechanism and huge funs to even put them in a desktop.</p>
<p>and, yes, I understand that true comp cycles can't be compared directly, but most experts put the difference between a g4 and a pentium 4 at 1/1.3 ratio. PC's run faster than macs at lower prices, even most mac users will admit it. It's an even easier decision when you factor in you're getting a 2/1 cpu ratio at half the price (and more ram, video card, and hard drive - the dells have a 120, my friend).</p>
<p>Edit: are you kidding me? You really want him to drop an extra 1.3k for an embedded desktop smart search? (and yes I understand the file tree technology behind that, but he doesnt and will never need to)</p>
<p>Which Dell model offers 120? I couldn't find it on the upper models.</p>
<p>The G5 chip will be finding its way into a notebook, obviously. Yes, Apple will never put a desktop chip into a notebook; IBM is producing a special chip with lower power consumption, obviously (as was done with the G4, G3, PowerPC...). The key is that Apple knows how to design the hardware and software on a Mac to reduce power usage, heat production, and optimize dissipation. If you have actually used a G5 tower, you'd see that those big fans are hardly ever spinning -- the OS intelligently manages them so only the sectors of the system needing cooling are cooled. This optimizes power usage to spin the fans and noise produced.</p>
<p>I would be more receptive to using a PC if they didn't run Windows. I don't want to buy a Dell and pay for a Windows license -- at least give me the option of running a real OS like Linux.</p>
<p>I never said I'd be willing to drop $1,300 for Spotlight; you can get that technology in a $499 Mac</a> Mini. Hell, you can get it on a used Mac -- used Macs, by the way, hold their resale value much better than PCs. You don't need to understand the dynamics of meta-tags and search to use Spotlight -- let's say I want to find a picture I took at Prom. I just search for "PROM" and everything on my system, including e-mail messages for planning, calendar entries for picking up clothes and the actual event, photographs, contacts, etc. will all come up in one place.</p>
<p>How complicated is that? Everyone can and will use it. What's more, since it's integrated so deeply into the system, you can even use Spotlight in open dialog boxes.</p>
<p><a href="http://media.justpetehere.com/spotlight.png%5B/url%5D">http://media.justpetehere.com/spotlight.png</a></p>
<p>You could run linux on a dell or any other pc, if you install it yourself. Really, windows isnt that bad. I have run win2k professional since it came out, and I have no problems.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You could run linux on a dell or any other pc, if you install it yourself.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, but why should I have to pay to receive a license for Windows?</p>
<p>Maybe because microsoft doesn't make pc's...</p>
<p>because it's cheap?</p>
<p>...or because windows is the lingua franca of computing?</p>
<p>The programs he needs for his classes will run, he'll know how to use it out of the box, his friends can help him if he has a problem, etc, etc etc.</p>
<p>Seriously though....lets stop talking about this. I'm tired of all the "a reply has been posted" emails I keep getting...haha. </p>
<p>If you like macs, buy one. If you like pcs, get a thinkpad. If you think both are overpriced/cant meet your specifications, build your own desktop pc, and that will solve all of the problems. </p>
<p>I declare this thread over for the second time.</p>
<p>The sad part about this thread is that I really feel the two platforms are equal looking at notebooks, for sure, especially if you are not a gamer. The fact that nearly every piece of software CIS licenses at Brown is licensed for Apple as well, that Maize is actually talking out of his ass (friends can help me? I help all my friends, for one, for two, the Apple Store reps will take anything you have a problem with and fix it no problem), that running both platforms destroys Maize's arguments, that Maize ignores weight and size as a way of comparing notebooks (a major concern), and finally, that you can use Dells and other computers in any lab that requires major computing power so that it doesnt matter fi you have the platform that runs every resource intensive program for your major (most of the time both versions exists anyway).</p>
<p>Phew, mouthful.</p>
<p>Btw, what crooked lines?</p>
<p>hmm... yet it shall continue... i like pcs, and until maize mentioned it, i never noticed that in the 2 years i had XP it never crashed or froze up ONCE... i find that great... macs are just nice to look at really... i mean even when they came out with those iBooks, i didnt know what there was to them besides the color... oh well... im content with my pc, and apple users love thier macs... and then we have some who switch, ON BOTH sides... everyone is allowed to love em... just enjoy</p>
<p>now its over... i think</p>