<p>^ you may want to completely rethink your ranking list, its really ****ing lame. I don’t think that architecture will have nearly as much an impact on your four years in college as the base of friends you will make and the experiences you will have academically and otherwise. When you are 70, and looking back on your days in XYZ university, are you going to admire the architecture? No, you are going to remember your friends and the experiences you had with them. And I am not attacking browns student body at all in this post. My point is that the student bodies are distinctly different, and you should chose the one that is right for you.</p>
<p>what makes the student bodies distinctly different? how are they different?</p>
<p>@tboone:</p>
<p>wow, way to overreact to one single criterion i mentioned. my ranking system isn’t based solely on architecture…maybe you didn’t read my post thoroughly enough. personally, i’m a lover of beauty and nature, and if there are two schools that are really close for me, i WILL take into consideration the way the campus looks and the natural beauty of the surrounding environment. it’s not the most important thing, obviously, but it’s at least worth considering imo.</p>
<p>besides, i believe i’ll make friends at any university i go to, i KNOW i’d meet outstanding individuals at both cornell and brown, and i also know i’ll make the best experiences at whatever college i go to as well. </p>
<p>did you read the part where i stated that both universities boast a great student body? i believe it’s true, and i’d like to find one person who would say “you’ll make tons of friends at cornell, but you won’t make any at brown”. you say you aren’t attacking brown’s student body, but i don’t know what point you’re trying to make. there is diversity in both student bodies. not everyone at cornell is the same, and not everyone at brown is the same. for you to seem to think otherwise is ridiculous.</p>
<p>but for the sake of argument, what all-encompassing differences do you think the student bodies possess?</p>
<p>“If you’re a preppy you have probably been rejected by each ivy league school except…Cornell” sung to the tune of Downtown, by Cayuga’s Waiters. (Don’t know if it is on you tube.)</p>
<p>Cornell is not for everyone, but after an education there, few other things in life seem difficult.</p>
<p>if you’re preppy? that’s the big difference? sorry, but somehow i doubt every single student at cornell is preppy or that there are not plenty of preps at other ivies. it just doesn’t add up. hopefully you were joking; it’s hard to tell over the net sometimes.</p>
<p>It’s a funny SONG parody, by the famous Cayuga’s Waiters singing group (famous to Cornellians, alumni and friends of Cornell.) It’s sung to the tune of Downtown made famous by Petula Clark - yes, famous before you were born. </p>
<p>Of course not everyone at Cornell is preppy, or was rejected at each Ivy league school. As you kids would say - tons of alumni send their kids there as their first choice.</p>
<p>ha, i know the song ‘downtown’. listen to it all the time actually. and yes, i understand the cayuga waiters’ song is a parody song. but since i’m not an expert on cornell history yet (sorry), i was unclear if it was a inside joke among cornellians or an actual attack on them. sorry again.</p>
<p>I am not saying that everyone at Cornell/Brown is the same. I am telling you to visit if you haven’t already and get a feel for the campus and the kind of people there. I feel at home at cornell, and I would most probably feel worse at brown, but this is just me. I think if you visit these schools you will have a very clear view on which is your top choice because of their distinct differences. </p>
<p>Differences include (not limited to):
cornell has a large greek scene, brown does not
IIRC brown’s music/art scene is much more developed than cornell</p>
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<p>You could say that about any college. This tells me nothing about anything about your fit at any school. </p>
<p>As far as your justification for what Brown offers with its “open curriculum”, I can see you’ve done little research on Cornell’s curriculum. I have less requirements to meet in ILR than someone does at Brown. Also, there are no “core classes” that all students must take in CAS like at a state school, but rather distribution requirements that must be filled with classes of your choice, which is far more aligned with a LAC. If anything, I’ve heard people who want the LAC experience prefer Cornell’s system system to Brown’s, which provides you with a real liberal arts education because your studying in all the disciples of the liberal arts, not just one sector (which many students end up doing at Brown; resulting in what Brown calls concentrations, not majors). </p>
<p>I have nothing against Brown, but I have not once heard an argument that has compelled me PERSONALLY to ever choose it over Cornell, which is why I didn’t apply (I haven’t heard you give a good reason either, for the record). </p>
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<p>In his defense you named four criterion, two of which you weren’t sure about (maybe a better film program; liberal but not overwhelmingly so). </p>
<p>You say you’ve done your research, but I haven’t seen much of it. There are very critical differences between Brown and Cornell, few if none of which you have touched on. I would really recommend talking to some alumni so you can get a better grasp of the schools you want to apply to, and don’t have to fall on justification such as “have clubs I want to join” or “have superb faculty and interesting student bodies”.</p>
<p>1.) unfortunately, i can’t visit the campuses. as much as i would love to (and i really really would, believe me), i don’t have the money to fly out there right now. if i get accepted, THEN i finally will get to see the schools before making my decision. trust me; i know it’s extremely important to visit, as the actual feel on campus is critical.</p>
<p>2.) you can’t say “superb faculty, interesting classes, great student body, lots of intriguing clubs that i’d love to get involved in” for any college. i don’t want to name names, but there are plenty of colleges i’ve researched that don’t offer organizations i’m interested in, and you obviously know that the faculty and nature of classes is going to be a lot different at an ivy than at a state school, for example. </p>
<p>3.) can you direct me to the place on the website that talks about cornell’s requirements? i can’t find it under ‘academics’ or through google. </p>
<p>but even so, if it’s a true liberal arts education, it’ll most likely include english, social science, science, and some type of math or quantitative reasoning, no? that’s definitely different than an open curriculum. even though, in brown’s case, most people end up taking classes in all the core 4 anyway.</p>
<p>4.) and out of four criterion, he decides to act like i’m basing my decision off architecture (which clearly i wasn’t.) like i explained, it is something i consider. if a campus’s appearance is irrelevant to you, that’s your preference. but i’d prefer an aesthetically-beautiful, clean, well-maintained campus. (and i’m not saying that brown isn’t, i’m just saying i’ve heard cornell is better in this department.)</p>
<p>5.) well, can you illuminate any distinct differences for me? all tboone said was that greek life is bigger at cornell and art scene is bigger at brown. that doesn’t really mean a whole lot to me though, because you can surely find a greek scene at brown if you want and an art scene at cornell if you want. i mean, if the greek scene totally DOMINATES cornell’s social scene, then yeah…that might be different…but even so, there are so many organizations i’m interested in at cornell, that i don’t think i’d have a hard time finding my own friends. all ivies are going to comprise a ton of bright, motivated, interesting people anyway, and i get along with people from all different interests/backgrounds, so i don’t think it’s going to be a problem for me one way or another.</p>
<p>There is much more of a homogeneity in psyche amongst Brown students, which is what brings them all there.</p>
<p>Cornell offers something different to every person, thus there is no one overarching reason why people choose it. Which is how we end up with such a hugely diverse student population.</p>
<p>This diversity brings together students with conflicting religious/political/ethical ideologies, and the school itself does not censor any group, and so Cornell is a hotbed of debate and intellectual argument on every issue from minority rights to healthcare ethics to foreign economic policy.</p>
<p>Here are the requirements in arts:
[Courses</a> of Study 2009-2010: College of Arts and Sciences](<a href=“http://courses.cuinfo.cornell.edu/AS.php]Courses”>http://courses.cuinfo.cornell.edu/AS.php)</p>
<p>that’s what i thought, and that’s what i meant by cornell being “overall liberal but not overwhelmingly so”. are you saying that it is equally divided between liberal, conservative, moderate, and apathetic, though?</p>
<p>also, thank you for the link. it was very helpful. but yeah, it is like a traditional core 4 liberal arts education, which i still think it very different than an open curriculum. not necessarily better or worse, but it IS different.</p>
<p>Conservatives are a definite minority on campus, and the vast majority of students are varying breeds of democrat.</p>
<p>Something else worth considering is school size. Cornell has 12,000 undergraduates and Brown has 5,900. I don’t know how large Brown’s graduate student population is, but Cornell’s grad pop brings the Ithaca campus up to 20,000.</p>
<p>So while neither campus is high school sized (<2,000 students), Cornell has a lot of new people for you to meet all the time. And you can make Cornell as big as you want - find 20 people that you like and stick with them for 4 years or meet 20 new people every day. It’s just nice to have that flexibility.</p>
<p>Furthermore, this large student body affords more networking opportunities down the line. As everybody already mentioned, there is a lot of camaraderie amongst Cornellians. No matter what year you graduated, what major you were or if you were on opposite ends of the social spectrum, there is an instant bond when speaking Cornellian to Cornellian. I have contacted many fellow alumni in my job search and everybody has been very generous in trying to help in whatever way possible.</p>
<p>I’m not really familiar with Brown’s campus and student life, but I can tell you that you will be able to find a place within Cornell and make it your own. All in all, I loved my time at Cornell and wish I could go back in time to repeat the experience.</p>
<p>frankly, i’m still offended that you seem to think that Cornell can’t possibly be someone’s first choice school.</p>
<p>also, you seriously can’t find the requirements?!? it’s on the website. please learn how to research better.</p>
<p>@tboone: thanks; that’s what i read somewhere else, so thanks for clarifying. i’m guessing that while most are liberal, they are still not overwhelmingly so?</p>
<p>@dana: thanks for the additional info. campus population definitely is something to consider, and i am leaning towards preferring a larger campus population. would you say, though, that since cornell is a private school, that everyone still gets help and attention from the administration/faculty? or is it more like “everyone is just a number”? i’m guessing the former.</p>
<p>@katmandoo: i’m sure i’m not the first person you’ve heard to question this. it seems to be a stereotype that cornell is the lowest-tier ivy. there are a lot of jokes about the ivy league in which people act like cornell shouldn’t even be in the league. as i’m sure you know. these claims are probably invalid, but there must be a reason for their existence. either 1.) it’s most people’s last choice ivy 2.) the quality of education at cornell isn’t as good as the other ivies 3.) it has the highest acceptance rate and is therefore the least selective. hopefully and probably, it is the last choice. </p>
<p>and maybe you should learn to read threads better: someone already gave me the link. it isn’t on the academics section of the website (the logical place it would be.) but thanks for your concern.</p>
<p>I think that professors and the administration are as responsive as they can be. Every once in a while you might run into a professor that is colder, but I had very positive experiences with all the faculty that I encountered over my four years at Cornell. They are very aware of the pressure that students are under and accommodate whenever possible.</p>
<p>Of course, personal interaction may be tougher in larger classes, but I believe only 25% of the classes at Cornell have more than 30 students in them. So that shouldn’t be a common occurrence for you.</p>
<p>And to clarify, I don’t think that it’s fair to say Cornell being private is the sole contributor to administration/faculty’s helpfulness. It’s part of the culture that has been bred over the years. I was a student in CALS, one of the statutory (state-funded) colleges, and got the best attention I could’ve asked for. I would think that to be the same from UC Berkeley, UMich or UNC… top institutions that happen to be public.</p>
<p>all right; that’s good to know! thanks!</p>
<p>and yeah, there are SOME public schools like that, but it seems to be a lot rarer. it’s one of the inherent benefits usually associated with private schools. also, i’ve heard plenty of people at berkeley complain about lack of personal attention/too many large classes, so even the best publics might not have the same faculty/student relations as privates.</p>
<p>Since I’ve been here, I’ve pretty much found that faculty/student relationships are what you make of them. If you never ask your advisor for help, never go to your professors’ office hours, etc., you might feel like you’re not getting enough individual attention, but it’s really your responsibility to do all of these things. I’ve reached out to faculty members very often and found it to be a very positive experience overall - everyone was willing to make time to help me personally, all because I took the initiative to just ask.</p>
<p>Very valid point. And good for you, taking this into consideration- I have to say that I didn’t really think about it much when I was applying to schools. It just happened to work out really well for me.</p>
<p>Many professors have regular office hours set up. It’s not a bad idea to just go in the beginning of the year and introduce yourself, get to know the professor, etc. so that you’re more primed to go again when you actually need help later in the semester. One of the worst things I did freshman year was to wait too long to ask for help. This was more because I had never had to ask for help in high school and I was embarrassed/intimidated for no good reason.</p>
<p>Your professors are there to help you learn. Take advantage of that. Build relationships with them. Just like the student body that Cornell attracts, they are a diverse group and have interesting stories. You just might learn more from them outside of the classroom and/or find a mentor in the process. Oh, and it’s always nice to somehow demonstrate your appreciation of their time/efforts at the end of the semester- a simple thank you card or email can do the trick… keep the good karma flowing!</p>