There’s also the thought that if he attended Miami and changed his mind, Syracuse will still be there at full price. Whereas if he changes his mind about Syracuse, the Miami opportunity is gone.
Having grown up in Western New York and now living in Florida I would say the great weather is a nice perk. On the other hand you’ll save money on suntan lotion at Syracuse…
Seriously good luck, a lot to think about! I went off to college without having visited ANYWHERE, so I’m sure he’ll be fine if a visit doesn’t materialize.
I know it is a ways off, but what does he want to do/where does he want to live after college? If he wants a job in NY then may want to go to school there and vice versa.
While everyone is trying to be helpful, I don’t think merely comparing U of Miami to Syracuse here is exactly the situation for this young man. I totally understand what he means about if not for the program, he may not have looked at Syracuse. A lot of people who apply to BA and BS degree programs are not as familiar with what it is like choosing a BArch program (momrath’s posts are truly the most fitting to the situation the OP son is in with regarding to selection). With a BArch program, you apply directly into the program and it is competitive (portfolio) and the student spends way more time in their major/program than someone doing a typical major, in terms of the percentage of their coursework. This is similar to someone choosing a BFA degree program in musical theater or acting too. Choosing the program is primary and choosing the university it is in is important, but secondary. You go where the programs are. For example,when one of my daughters applied to BFA programs in MT, many of the schools she applied to were ones she likely would not have considered if not for their top notch MT programs (which again, is not like any other major and the percentage of coursework in the major is at least double than in a BA program typically). In fact, she applied to and got into the program at Syracuse, but did not attend. I’m also quite familiar with Architecture programs as one of my kids is in that field professionally. She opted to do a BA for undergrad and wasn’t ready to commit to a BArch program at that point. But she did go to grad schools in architecture and in fact, got into the MArch at Syracuse, and we visited the program, but she did not attend it. So, while people are comparing Syracuse to Miami overall, what is important in this case (money aside, which of course is important!) is examining the programs. Syracuse’s program is well regarded for BArch. Miami is likely quite good too but not as well know as the Arch program at Syracuse. That is not everything whatsoever but examining the programs side by side carefully and visiting each department matters as it is a commitment into a very intense degree program and not simply picking college.
So sorry for the delay in responding. We’ve been in Boston all afternoon and evening with our older son who is in town presenting at a conference. We’re still in a bit of a quandary, but I wanted to thank you so much for all of your advice and support. We would not have known to ask for an extension or about some of the options you gave us. We appreciate it very much. To be continued…
soozievt,
You hit the nail on the head, and perhaps also why it’s been very stressful with the decision making. My son thought he knew the programs at all the schools he applied to, and in many cases, visited prior to applying, but even with that, we learned even more at Accepted Students’ Days. Some new information was good, and some made my son cross the school off his list entirely. Architecture is a complicated major to start off in, particularly due to the myriad of ways the programs are structured. (BA, BS, BArch, BA-MArch, etc.)
My son did do a summer architecture program last year which definitely gives the student a preview of what’s to come, so we felt more confident in his major choice, but also wanted to be sure he had options should he decide to change. That’s what led us away from great places like RISD and Pratt for example, or very small colleges.
Appreciate yours and everyone’s thoughts! Will definitely follow-up when the dust settles! Thanks again.
I’m hoping by this time CapeCodLady8’s son is packing for his reconnaissance trip to Miami.
It’s hard to imagine two more different places than Syracuse and Miami. I mean the cities, not the schools, though of course the environment will impact the personality of the schools as well – where the kids live, what they do when they’re not in class (or studio), where they socialize. Most likely one will speak to him with a more compelling voice, but in order to get a clear sense of place – the studio facilities, the enthusiasm of the students, the kind of work being produced – he’d have to visit.
There’s a major difference between the Design Intelligence rating for the BArch at Syracuse (at #5) and Miami (not in the top 20). Is this enough of a reason to choose Syracuse? Before answering that question you’d have to evaluate several other factors. As I mentioned before, some questions I would ask would involve the what and where of summer internships, career placement, MArch admissions, study abroad programs. I’d also want to look at the size of the BArch program, its fall-out rate and the balance among design, structures and technology.
On the plus side Miami is a vibrant architecture and design friendly city. I don’t know too much about the resources and focus of U of Miami’s architecture school except that it offers a high level of synergy between architecture and urban design and has some excellent joint degrees, like architecture+business and engineering + architecture.
The BArch is, to me, a difficult degree because it requires a pretty-darn-sure commitment from 17/18 year olds who may not have a clear idea of what a career in architecture is all about. It also moves the focal point of the undergraduate experience from the campus at large to the studio.
@Trisherella, if he goes to UMiami, he gives up the fin aid at 'Cuse.
The environments of the 2 schools are somewhat different (UMiami would have a ton of Northeasterners as well and is probably the most Northern school in the South).
Whether he sticks with architecture is a key consideration. Also global warming. In most places, that’s not a concern, but S FL will have major issues in coming decades.
@CapeCodLady8 Good to hear. Sounds like you are getting the extensions. That will allow your S to breathe and make a good choice. Though all of them sound good!
Yes, that was my point! (maybe I didn’t express it clearly) If he goes to Miami and changes his mind, Syracuse is still available at full price if he wants to transfer. But he can’t start at Syracuse and change his mind, because the Miami opportunity with merit will be gone.
The only architecture-related data point I can contribute here is that a classmate of S’s majored in architecture as an undergrad at Penn, and has been with well known architectural firms in Denmark (think Copenhagen Opera), NYC, and now China since graduation (and I think before).
It is a 4-yr program, and not listed as one of the top 10 at the undergrad level. It is a top 10 grad level program, though, and I think that is significant, because IIRC this student made a favorable impression on a visiting professor in the grad school who was an architect with a major firm, which resulted in an internship opportunity that led to more opportunities.
At which program would the student be likely to encounter that sort of opportunity?
@Consolation, Penn’s undergraduate degree is the BS, which is a different animal from a BArch. In most states, with a BS or a BA you still need an MArch to become a licensed architect. 15 states will allow licensing with a BS, but it’s a longer, complicated process and may limit career opportunities.
Having said that, many people with BS or BA degrees work in architecture, just not as “official” architects. It’s quite common to work for a few years then head back to school for the MArch which can take 1.0 to 3.5 years depending on the combination of undergraduate degree and graduate program.
For students who are not 100% sure about architecture the BS/BA+MArch approach may be a better choice than the BArch. The problem is that MArch degrees tend to be pricey so you have to weigh the comparative costs.
Design Intelligence only ranks schools that grant BArchs and graduate MArchs. (As if it’s not complicated enough, there are at least 3 schools that offer an undergraduate, baccalaureate MArch. Design Intelligence hasn’t figured out where to put these programs and neither have I.)
There are many excellent BS and BA programs in architecture and architectural studies which offer good internship and job opportunities. Penn is one and others that come to mind are WUSTL, UVA, Cincinnati, UMich, Brown.
Most BS programs have tie ins with their own MArchs, but it’s common to choose another school for the MArch. It’s also common to attend a MArch program with a BA in something other than architecture.
From what I can tell, an MArch will take the shortest amount of time starting from a BArch, a year longer starting from a BA or BS in architecture, and two years longer (versus BArch) starting from a BA or BS in an unrelated field.
@ucbalumnus, it’s not that standardized or predictable.
Some MArchs require that you fulfill the whole 3.0 or 3.5 year curriculum no matter what undergraduate degree you have. Some schools allow their own BSs to complete their own MArchs in 1.0 to 1.5 years.
Most commonly students with the BArch or a BS in architecture will complete the MArch in 2.0 years but extra semesters may be added on for school specific course requirements if they switch schools between undergraduate and graduate.
And normally students with a BA will need 3.0 years to complete the MArch but they may get advanced placement or exemptions that allow them to cut out a semester.
Then there are the thesis semesters, coop programs and summer sessions. . .
Then there are the 5.0 year undergraduate MArchs . . .
Trip was over the top fantastic, though the programs a bit different. It was tough that the students were all done with Studios and had their Final Reviews almost two weeks ago. The ones we did see were buried in their books or computers studying for final exams which end today. Definitely a different vision then you see on a regular visit, or to the three Architecture tailored visits we had to Syracuse. Not fair to compare, but it’s all we have.
Now onto the decision process. I will post when it’s done! I’m also going to post a question on the Architecture forum to maybe garner some more information regarding major specific aspects to help with the process. It’s really terribly hard for my son. My heart is aching and I am trying to be thoughtful and offer my thoughts, without crushing his dreams. We do have a lot to consider. Very quickly. If it were me, the decision is leaning towards obvious, but I get where my son is having a tough time.
Both schools bleed orange, but will the mascot be an Ibis or a fruit? We shall see. Cannot wait until this is over! Thank you all for your great input. It’s definitely helped so much and I’ve been sharing it with my son.
Thanks for the update and glad you had a great trip. My son is a junior so we’ll be going through this process next year and following your story is very helpful. Anxious to hear what your son’s final choice is as we just got back from visiting one of the schools your son has narrowed it down to. Different major, but I have a feeling we’ll be down to a similar decision.
I’m so glad you got to visit. Visiting is the only way you’ll know if it fits your son or not. It is very personal. My suggestion is to go with the college that your son feels the most comfortable at. They are both so dramatically different in size, location, etc. Both options are great - I would just choose based on fit. That is what the college process boils down to. Which one feels like home?
Don’t get hung up on the rankings - he can always attend a higher ranking school for Grad school if he really wants to. It’s again all about fit. We’ve been told that happy students are the most successful. I’ve seen that with both of my children and it is so true. If your child is happy, he will be motivated and will succeed. Afterall five years is a LONG time so definitely pick the place he loves. Good luck!!
Syracuse ended up in my son’s top 3, but we all considered it a distant third until we visited the top 3 last month - he was also looking at very specialized programs and after meeting students and professors at all 3, he actually decided on Syracuse. It was all about feel and fit, and where he decided he would be most comfortable (other than the frostbite). Visiting and getting good info about each schools program is crucial to making an informed decision. Best of luck, hope to see you at orientation!
