<p>I am going to be applying to some law schools soon and I probably have taken complete leave of my senses. I know I won't be attractive to the big firms. I don't want to work 70-80 hours a week unless my name is on the shingle. Currently I'm an insurance agent for a large international insurance company. I'm told that I'd have a got shot at being an in house attorney. Any words of wisdom ?</p>
<p>I hate to discourage you, but you don't have much shot at being hired in-house. I have spent my entire 30+ year career in-house. A 50 something new grad with no experience is not what particularly appealing to a General Counsel. You might have a shot at doing low level legal work for an insurance company if they are hiring, but it might be as an adjuster. Age discrimination is very real, and a more "mature" applicant with NO legal experience is going to face an uphill battle for employment. If you plan to attend a top 20 law school OR be first in your class at a lower tier law school, your odds of getting a job will increase.</p>
<p>I agree but it also may depend on your experience as an agent, the position in the insurance company & your relationship to folks in the home office. Age discrimination is, as the above poster wrote, alive and well, however. Are you a multi-line agent, life & health, annuity/investments, excess & surplus lines...? And what type of legal position do you want. In-house attorney overseeing litigation matters=highly unlikely. Advanced underwriter dealing with tax issues on complex life insurance cases=much,more likely. Contracts, real estate or other transactional work=possible. Agent/agency contract work=very possible.</p>
<p>The older students in my law school class tended to perform better than students who came straight from college. Their work ethic was stronger and they were not distracted by their social lives.
While I agree with the above posters, I would talk to the career counseling office at the law school you are considering to get a realistic asessment of your prospects. MomofWildChild raises an especially good point in noting that the caliber of the law school will make a big difference in the caliber of the employers who come on campus.</p>
<p>I'd also look at the three years of demanding law school, eating into your remaining earning years (aside from any debt you would incur at this point in your life) -- with the payoff potentially a legal job for the balance of your career years. Legal jobs are generally pretty stressful, so the life-style value of the payoff is questionable. I've been practicing law for >30 yrs and am in my mid-to-late 50s. IMO, the return on this investment looks pretty poor. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if (a) you have money to burn, so you're not going into debt to do this, (b) you aren't worried about making entry level legal wages or having to reapply for your current job in three years, hoping they still remember any encouragement or promises they are giving today, (c) this is a lifetime dream, and (d) this isn't some kind of emotional, over-the-top mid-life crisis (in which case I'd say consider buying a vacation condo, going on a fantasy trip or buying a convertible with the money instead) or an unhealthy competition with an ex-spouse or kid in grad school/college....I'd say go for it. </p>
<p>Mature students did well in my law school class, and appeared to have more focus on their studies than many of the students right out of college. Many of them had businesses of their own and were seeking skills to enhance their current employment. They all seemed pretty satisfied with their decisions to go to law school.</p>
<p>Neonzeuss,</p>
<p>This isn't a mid life crisis, I've been serious about this for many years. I don't absoulutely have to be an insurance litigator, but I've been in insurance for many years and thought it would be a natural place to start. I realize that I might have an uphill battle, but here in Florida older attorneys seem to have an easier time of getting hired. Also, I'm a trust fund baby so the comparative low starting salaries don't bother me as I can ride it out. I've seen people come into the insurance business in their fifties and even sixties and do well, although I realize that isn't an apples to apples comparison. I have some contacts in the State Attorney's office here in Florida so perhaps I could start as a prosecutor. I don't see me as a transactions attorney, although that might be what I end up doing. The school I'm seriouly considering is Florida Coastal and possibly Northwestern or the University of Richmond. I'm told that if your grades are higher at a lower tier school than a top tier school your prospects for employment substantially improve.</p>
<p>Coldwind I am a multi line agent and have a pretty good relationship with the home office. However, I'm also securities liscensed and the SEC forbids practicing law and selling securities. I'm not worried about low starting salries as I'm a trust fund baby. You are right, age discrimination is alive and well, but where I live (Florida) older attorneys seem to get hired fairly often. Although that was before the markets melted down.</p>
<p>The SEC forbids practicing law & selling securities? On what basis?</p>
<p>Coldwind they prohibit this on the basis of potential conflicts of interest. I thought there might be some loop holes, one of clients is a securities attorney and they tell me there are none. I think it's ridiculos, but what do you do ?</p>
<p>My concern would be older attorney and no legal experience. I did a job search myself a couple of years ago with almost 30 years experience and it was a tough search. My co-worker (50) just ended a year-long job search to relocate to be closer to family. He got nowhere. Sounds like Florida might be better and you have some wiggle room. Go for it!</p>
<p>Florida seems to be a friendlier environment for older workers. I don't say it will be easy, it won't. Momofwildchild, I have been sucessful at most everything I've attempted, when I was disciplined and paid the price. I quit drinking 24 years ago, quit smoking 20 years ago had gastric bypass and lost 150 lbs five years ago. I don't say it will be easy, it won't but given what I've been through, I'm up for the challenge, I just want to be a litigator of some description. I know it's an ego thing, but isn't that why we become attorneys ? I believe it is when you get down to soup and nuts.</p>
<p>It's not so much about whether you can be a good lawyer or get through law school. I'm sure you can. It's a matter of what the reality is out in the business world. Lots of companies are favorable towards older workers, including my employer. However, a 50 something new law grad is a tough sell.</p>
<p>Momofwildchild, yes it will be a challenge, but the same can be said for just about any profession. I've seen new agents in insurance with no experience come in and do quite well. I don't say that younger grads aren't more attractive to a potential employer, they are, but let's face it, getting started in anything is most difficult.</p>
<p>I think that the biggest challenge that a new lawyer in his or her 50's may face is indeed finding that first employer willing to hire and train you. There is no doubt in my mind that a law student of any age may be successful in law school, in fact, my experience has been that more mature law students often do better overall in law school than their younger classmates.</p>
<p>Typically, in house legal positions are filled by lawyers with significant work experience. The OP's experience in insurance may help land him (?) a position in the law department of an insurance company, but typically, to be hired as a lawyer even in industry in which you have significant experience you would need to have significant legal experience. Most in house legal departments are way too leanly staffed to be able to train new attorneys, so therefore, they hire experienced attorneys who can hit the ground running as soon as they step in the door.</p>
<p>The way that most new attorneys gain legal experience is by working for other attorneys, whether in a small firm or large firm envirnoment. Many new attorneys also work for the government or in public interest work. There are several difficulties that many law firms may consider when hiring an older new attorney. First, will the older new attorney take direction from more senior attorneys that may be younger (even significantly younger) than the older new attorney? Second, will the law firm would be able to fire the older new attorney if his or her work is not satisfactory without placing themselves at risk of some kind of age discrimination claim (always a factor with employees over 50 years old)? Finally, is it worth the time, money and effort to train an attorney who may not work for that law firm for a long career? Of course, these factors absolutely do not mean that no one will hire an older new attorney, but they may provide some clarity as to why law firms may hesitate to do so. </p>
<p>Perhaps you might find employment with a state insurance regulatory agency?</p>
<p>Sallyawp, that would work just as well. I just want to be a litigator of some description. I really wouldn't want to be a public defender, but if that's where my opportunity to get litigation experience is, then so be it. In Florida they can fire you with or without cause. They have some very peculiar employment laws down here. I know I would be a very good insuranc E & O lawyer, I know all the tricks that agents do, in fact I've done some of them. I've thought about being an attorney for the Insurance Department here in FLorida. Sallyawp, I can assure you that these folks are quite busy. Shall we say that business wise Florida is a brothel. I'm deadly serious about this. Every crook, thief and shyster is either here, has been here or will be here or is on the way here. What we have is snowbirds coming here from December thru Easter, pulling a bunch of shady stuff and the poof! They vanish and go back up North. That is why our insurance licensing requirements are the toughest in the country. They are brutal and the Dept. of Financial Services doesn't play, not even the radio !</p>
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I think that the biggest challenge that a new lawyer in his or her 50's may face is indeed finding that first employer willing to hire and train you.
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<p>I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm in a similar situation as the OP. If I start in the fall of '09, I will be 45 when I finish law school. Is there something magical about 50, or will the same apply to me, only to (perhaps) a lesser degree?</p>
<p>I'm morbidly curious about what the job prospects might be like. There are a couple of personal connections I could draw upon to get that first job, but both are in a specialization (IP) that is somewhat removed from what motivates me to go to law school. It would be helpful to know now if that's the direction I should be headed.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I think this thing about age and law school: You can go to law school at any age. I think one has to be realistic in their career aspirations. I would hedge bets and simply attend at night, this way you get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>There is tremendous amount of work out there in slips/falls, family, bankruptcy etc. that should keep a solo practicioner working for a long time.</p>
<p>Toronto_guy,</p>
<p>I agree with you. Personal injury law is fairly consistient from what I've seen, especially during hard econoomic times. Although, from personal experience it can get very ugly. However, at my age I've seen it all or some verision of all. I believe I'm realistic about employment prospects after law school. The "Big Boys" don't want me because I'm not moldable. That's fine with me because from what I've seen the large firms eat their young when it comes to junior associates. If you aren't on the "partner track" after three years you are gone. Moreover, working 80-100 hours/week doesn't blow my dress up. Now if it's my name on the shingle, that's different. I go to church with a man who is the Senior partner of a huge international law firm and he does quite well ($2-3million/yr) but he paid some serious dues to get there. I plan on going to law school part time to see how I do and decide form there whether to ratchet it up.</p>