<p>But I am in undergraduate business program and at top ten school. I have done a consulting internship and want to pursue a career in the consulting industry. </p>
<p>I have heard that getting an MBA when you have an undergraduate business degree is kind of a waste of money or if it's not a waste of money it's only to qualify you for increase salary and promotions.</p>
<p>I would like to work with business development and entrepreneurs and provide legal advice in addition to business advice. </p>
<p>I do have the grades and although I havent taken the LSATs yet, I place between 25-75th of all the top schools. So let's assume that I went to a top 5 law school. Again I have no intention of being a lawyer for more than two or three years; albeit I am likely to enjoy those years as I have a genuine interest in law. I want to be well versed in contacts and contract law.</p>
<p>So after all that, is this a bad or good ideA?</p>
<p>It’s never a good idea to go to law school if you’re not willing to practice law. At best it would just be an incredibly inefficient way of getting a consulting job you could probably get now. It’s also not a good idea to assume you would go to a top 5 law school when you haven’t taken the LSAT.</p>
<p>Well I was assuming that I would get accepted into a top 5 school. Because I know that this isn’t as feasible if going to a lower ranked school. A hypothetical.</p>
<p>From a practical standpoint, you will learn relatively little about real business and transaction law in law school, just as you will learn little about analyzing and drafting contracts. Sure, you will get tax law, contract law and corporation law classes, but those classes are geared largely to principles and law in the abstract. You will typically only learn application of that law in practice, which means that it will take a good number of years before you are proficient as a business lawyer and in a position to advise anyone. I regularly have to start from ground zero with new associates at our firm with respect to forming entities, advising clients which entities to use, drafting even simple contracts and structuring transactions. These include graduates from top 20 law schools. A number of my business clients have law degrees, although they don’t practice. While they may have a greater appreciation for the nuances in my advice, they clearly prefer to hire me to give them that advice than do it themselves.</p>
<p>The upshot is that having a law degree ultimately can be quite useful for consulting purposes, but only if you couple it with a very substantial period of law practice so you can actually learn your craft. I’d say you probably need to practice for more like 5-7 years after getting your JD to gain practical competence.</p>
<p>The OP can correct me if I’m wrong, but I strongly suspect that he’s talking about getting an associate position at one of the major strategy consulting firms (i.e. McKinsey, BCG, etc.), and the truth of the matter is, you don’t really need to have any business training or experience to get one of those jobs. All you really need is a strong brand-name school that signals your talent. That’s why people with people with advanced degrees, but not in business, can nevertheless get these kinds of consulting jobs. For example, I know quite a few people who got technical PhD’s at Harvard or MIT who then got jobs in strategy consulting. These guys had never held a real job before in their lives, never took a business class in their lives, and consequently knew nothing about business, but it didn’t matter. They got the offers anyway. </p>
<p>{One might reply that the notion that top consulting firms would hire people who will then be working on crafting strategy advice for the largest firms in the world, despite these people themselves having no background in business to be truly bizarre, and I too have always found it to be completely inscrutable. But what can I say? They do it. Whether we agree with it or not, they do it.} </p>
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<p>I used to think so too, but lately I’ve been rethinking the matter. </p>
<p>I agree that law school is an inefficient way to get into consulting, but the question then is, what’s the alternative? The clearest path to getting a consulting offer is to go to a top MBA program. The problem is that very few people fresh out of undergrad can get into a top MBA program due to the strong emphasis on work experience. It is almost certainly easier for somebody right out of undergrad to get into a top law school than into a top MBA program. </p>
<p>So, yes, going to law school is an inefficient way to get into (strategy) consulting at the associate level. However, getting the work experience necessary to be competitive for a top MBA program, and then attending that program is also an inefficient way to get into consulting. Furthermore, the strategy that I mentioned above - that is, getting a PhD and then getting into consulting - is also an inefficient way (if for no other reason, many people who enter PhD programs don’t even finish.) In short, there are no truly efficient ways. The question then is which is least inefficient, and to that, I’m now quite ambivalent. </p>
<p>Now, granted, you could get a position as a strategy consulting analyst right after undergrad. However, the vast majority of people who want such a position won’t get it. Even if you do, those positions are designed to last about 2-3 years after which you are expected to leave the firm and do something else (which is usually to get your MBA). Very few analysts will be promoted directly to associate. </p>
<p>Hence, what I would say is, if you are one of the rare people who get into a top MBA program right after undergrad, then sure, do that. Or, if you can get an analyst position at a top strategy firm right after undergrad, then you might want to do that. However, if you, like most people, can’t get either of those, and you still want to be consulting, then going to a top law school (presuming you can get in) might not be a bad choice. It might be your least worst option.</p>
<p>I suspect this post is going to cause some controversy, so to those who object to what I have said, I repose the simple question: what’s the alternative?</p>
<p>While I agree with most of what sakky said, I think that one alternative (assuming that the OP is not able to obtain a consulting analyst position right out of undergrad) is to work in any area that might give the OP some real world experience for a year or three or five and then go to a top business school. The OP can fthen focus on obtaining an associate consulting position after business school.</p>
<p>The rub in this whole thing is that it is incredibly difficult to obtain a position at McKinsey, BCG, etc. at any time, whether you’ve graduated from undergrad, law school or business school, because those jobs are so much in demand (and probably because the interviewing process is fairly brutal).</p>
<p>“However, getting the work experience necessary to be competitive for a top MBA program, and then attending that program is also an inefficient way to get into consulting.”</p>
<p>that was my argument. I didnt explicitly say it and reading over the replies there is patently some ambiguity in my question. But as you pointed out; it doesnt matter which way you put it, there will be a certain amount of years between graduating with a postgraduate and your undergrad, Because an MBA degree requires significant work experience and law school is 3 years.</p>
<p>I do want to become an associate and not just an analyst at a big firm. In addition, I want to be able to provide legal advice as well. I want to assist startups, entrepreneurs, etc. </p>
<p>Thanks so much for the replies (esp.Sakky)! very insightful.</p>
<p>How? At the very least, getting the work experience won’t cost over $100K and leave you with a credential only useful for jobs you don’t want. There is no easy or quick way to get the job, but there are paths that don’t cost as much or present the slim odds that going to law school does.</p>
<p>How, you ask? Simple. Most jobs you can get right after undergrad are, frankly, mediocre. They don’t teach you much. They don’t really help you to get into a top MBA program. And they certainly don’t help you to get a consulting job later. Simply put, it’s not like everybody who goes to the workforce is going to be able to get into a top MBA program. Far from it in fact. Plenty of people with top grades and years of work experience nevertheless can’t get into any of the top B-schools. </p>
<p>So consider the choice that is on the table. Let’s say that you (like the OP) really do want to a consulting associate and you really can get into a top law school right after undergrad. Your other choice is to go to the workforce for several years. But if you do that, there is no guarantee that you will get into a top MBA program, and if you don’t, you’ve basically wasted your time. That’s the risk you take. </p>
<p>Besides, getting a top MBA is no guarantee that you will get a consulting offer either. I can think of several such people who interviewed with all of the top consultancies and didn’t get any offers. Hence, these people are also similarly stuck with a credential that is useful for jobs that they don’t want. </p>
<p>That’s what makes me ambivalent. Either way, it’s a risk. A top law school isn’t going to guarantee you a consulting job. But going to the workforce isn’t going to guarantee you a consulting job either.</p>
<p>Option #1: Try to go straight from law school to consulting/IB
direct entry, but hard to pull-off
It would have to be a top law school
Be prepared to answer: why consulting?, why law school?
would help if you have some business experience or a undergrad major in math/engineering/finance/business/etc.
I’ve heard of 2Ls doing a split summer (lehmans/BCG and biglaw) and getting offers with consulting/IB after law school</p>
<p>Option #2: work for a few years in law firm doing corporate law, M&A, tax, “business law” and try to lateral as an associate with consulting/IB
still needs to be top school
from what I’ve read, people attempt this after working about 3 years, anymore and you’ll be too pegged as a lawyer to be taken seriously</p>
<p>Option #3: get MBA after law school and enter consulting/IB
probably the easiest method
expensive!!! I mean you just spent thousands on law school and just when you have those loans paid off . . . more school/loans
would need to be top schools for both</p>
<p>Other Info:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I was doing research on a similar situation, I found some good info on the Stanford and GULC career services websites about careers outside of the law</p></li>
<li><p>The starting salary is about the same with biglaw/IB/consulting, but with IB (and consulting to a certain degree) the growth potential is so much greater than with law</p></li>
<li><p>When you do interview, expect a lot of math/finance based questions!!!</p></li>
<li><p>If you don’t want to go back to school for an MBA, consider a CFA to show your serious about this and can handle numbers</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Many states will not let you give legal advice while you are working for a non-legal entity. In other words, if you are working for a business consulting firm, you may not be permitted to give legal advice as an employee of that business consulting firm. Why? Because even though you might be a lawyer if you are giving advice as an employee of the business consulting firm, that firm is practicing law (you are an agent of that firm). </p>
<p>When lawyers want to give nonlegal advice and get paid for it, they often create separate businesses. For example, I know of a law firm whose partners are good a giving nursing home management business advice. They created a separate entity with separate offices and render non-legal services through that non-law firm entity.</p>
<p>Of course, you could say all of those things about law school, too. The difference is that the jobs won’t leave you with six-figure debt AND no ability to get the job you want. The fact that there is no way to guarantee getting one of these jobs don’t mean that every path is equally risky, or that the risks are equally large.</p>
<p>I don’t see the comparison. An MBA program also leaves you with a 6-figure debt. What about those MBA’s who don’t get the job they want yet have to deal with their debt loads? </p>
<p>Furthermore, merely getting an undergrad job and then staying there (and never getting the MBA) won’t help you become a consultant.</p>
<p>Look, the bottom line is, if you want to become a strategy consulting associate, you are probably going to have to take a 6-figure debt load one way or another. The only way I can see you not having to do that is to follow the aforementioned PhD road, but that carries great risks in itself in, like I said, there is high chance you won’t even finish the PhD, whereas at a top law or B-school, you are basically assured you are going to finish. </p>
<p>Now, where I can agree with you is that the debt load for law school is higher, in that law school is 3 years long whereas an MBA program is only 2. I also agree that it is riskier as the chances for getting a consulting job are higher coming out of an MBA program than a law school (but the chances are still far from assured either way) But, like the OP said, the path is also shorter. </p>
<p>So you’re basically trading time for money/risk. That’s why I’m ambivalent. It’s not clear at all to me that the trade is a bad one, a priori.</p>
<p>Does getting a law degree help you get the consulting or other elite business jobs, and how much? Would I be at advantage to get such jobs after law school, compared to others coming out of undergrad? And, by how much? </p>
<p>Sakky: you mentioned how it is also a big risk that people aim to go to top mba after several years of work experience. I did some research on MBA admissions, and I realized that only Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, MIT, and Wharton had outrageously low acceptance rates. Meanwhile, schools like Duke Fuqua, Cornell Johnson, Yale, Umich Ross, etc, didn’t seem too hard to get into just strictly talking about acceptance rates, at least compared to top law schools. If I get MBA from one of those schools, would I still be competitive for top consulting jobs? Thanks.</p>
<p>Getting into a top MBA program gives you vastly better chances at getting a consulting job. The odds really aren’t even comparable. McKinsey is the only major consulting firm I know of that even participates in law school OCI programs. A couple years ago, they made a total of 6 offers at Columbia and 4 at Harvard (by contrast, Wachtell made 9 offers at each school). Some of those few probably had significant work experience, and I know that at least one of the CLS offerees was a joint JD/MBA student. Top business schools generally send over a quarter of their class into consulting (Princeton Review says that 40% of MIT Sloan grads go into consulting), and it’s not clear that those jobs are invariably more competitive than some finance jobs among b-school students, either. </p>
<p>So if there are two choices, one being to spend a few years working, then trying to get into a top business school where getting a consulting job would not be a longshot at all, and the other being a six-figure gamble on the incredibly bad odds of getting the same job straight out of law school, I have a tough time seeing how law school makes an equal amount of sense. If it’s not gonna happen, it’s not gonna happen; better to have the disappointment come when you get rejected by the business schools than when you graduate from law school.</p>
<p>this is an interesting discussion and it is putting things in perspective. It seems to me that I should have no qualms about working in Law after law school if things don’t work out the way I want. Or that I should be willing to go back to school for an MBA if things do not go the way I plan they should go. </p>
<p>What do you guys think about a JD/MBA option?</p>
<p>I think it would be useful if you want to be a lawyer, because just one more year to have the MBA degree, but not necessarily vice versa. Also, there is the money question.</p>
<p>Moreover, I was thinking, sure only a few offers are made for consulting for law school students at top schools. But how many of those people want to be consultants and not lawyers. Say for instance, 40% of MIT graduates went into consulting but twice as many people wanted those jobs. THat’s only a 50/50 acceptance rate. But if only a handful of offers were made to law school students to do business consulting but there were only a few lawyers wanting to do this kind of work, the amount getting into the field they desired could have a higher success rate.</p>
<p>I think there is an easy answer to the original question. It is very simple, actually. Do not go to law school unless you can accept the life of a lawyer. Yes, there is always the possibility of what you can do with a law degree, but there is greater possibility that you will be confined to the law and legal practice. Good luck.</p>
<p>I would say that it makes little sense to go to law school to be a consultant. If you truly attend a top 10 school you should be able to get a job at an IB or a consulting firm as an analyst. If you do that for a few years you have a good shot at getting into a decent mba program assuming your gmat scores are not terrible. This is a much safer way to get into the field you want, because as someone above mentioned there is very little hiring done at law schools by these firms.</p>
<p>^Attending a top law school requires a high GPA/LSAT.. do you mean that those with high LSAT/GPA can easily get IB/consulting jobs straight out of undergrad? Is this true?</p>
<p>And why do you necessarily need to rely on your law school’s OCI? </p>
<p>For example, if you’re a HLS student, why not just participate in Harvard’s general graduate school interviewing process, which is available to all grad students including law students. Believe me, all of the major consulting firms are hanging around Harvard’s general graduate school campus recruiting. </p>
<p>Or, even better, take advantage of your networking opportunities. For example, again, as an HLS student, you have opportunities to cross-register at HBS or the MIT Sloan School, for example, to take some of the courses on business regulation or whatnot, but of course with the true purpose of meeting people. For example, if you want to get an interview with BCG and you can find one of the MBA students used to work (full-time or summer internship) with the firm, then you can request that he pass your name to a recruiter, and there it starts. </p>
<p>Heck, you can even start hanging around the HBS career fairs and assemblies where the recruiters are doing the meet-and-greet. Sure, you’re not technically supposed to be there, because they’re supposed to be open only to HBS people. But the truth is, nobody is checking. In fact, this is precisely what one Harvard PhD student did when he decided he wanted to get a job in venture capital: he just started hanging around the HBS campus, attending numerous venture capital assemblies. What can I say? It worked: right now, he’s get a part-time internship with one of them, and if he does well, he may be able to secure a full-time offer. </p>
<p>But the point is, you have to be more entrepreneurial in your approach. I agree that if you’re just going to sit back, rely solely on your law school’s OCI, and otherwise lazily hope that the opportunities come to you, then sure, you probably won’t get much. But if you aggressively take advantage of the resources of your entire school as a whole. The top 5 law schools: HLS, YLS, SLS, UChicago Law, Columbia Law: all of these law schools are attached to large and resource-rich universities. Put another way, if a girl with a Harvard PhD but with no business background whatsoever can nevertheless figure out how to line up a string of interviews at the top management consulting firms, surely a Harvard Law student can do it too. </p>
<p>This is certainly true of Harvard especially. You go to a Harvard career event and it’s hard not to trip over a consulting recruiter. </p>
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<p>See above. I can see the mathematics work out very easily. You go to HLS, and you are aggressive in looking for consulting firms, and you will surely find plenty, if for no other reason, than because the general Harvard graduate services are locust-thick with consulting recruiters. Now, where I could agree with you is that you still have to get the offer. But that’s no different from the challenge that the MBA’s face. Many of them want consulting and don’t get an offer. </p>
<p>What I would add is that this strategy is certainly not specific to the law school, but, frankly, to any graduate program at the top universities. The goal is simply to gain access to the general university career services and networking, which might lead one to believe that just getting into any graduate program would do, and indeed it might, but with some caveats. I mentioned the difficulties with going down the PhD route in previous posts (mostly, that you stand a strong chance of not even finishing your PhD). And of course, if you are one of the very few who happen to get into a top MBA program with no work experience, then sure, just do that instead. On the other hand, it seems to me that just entering a regular (non-MBA) master’s program won’t work well simply because those with only master’s degrees tend to be placed in analyst positions, not the associate position that the OP seems to want. Whether we agree or not, the law degree seems to be the equivalent of an MBA for consulting purposes, but a regular master’s degree is not. </p>
<p>Hence, the point stands. Every one of the top-flight law school gives you instant access to the plethora of a top university’s general recruiting and networking resources. Given that you are ambitious, it’s hard not to see how you wouldn’t be able to parley a number of consulting interviews, and then of course, it’s up to you to complete the deal. But the point is, if the other grad students can figure out how to land consulting interviews, surely the law students can too.</p>