Lefty Academics

Parents Forum
61

<p>"Beliefs"? Right. Your "conservatism," seems to be a theological position, not a rational one. Ideologues and true believers of any stripe make me tired. Sounds like you have run into some of the left variety. On the other hand, talk radio and the Op Ed page of the WSJ is full of ideologues who share your "beliefs." </p>

<p>Now that you know how irritating and foolish ideologues can be, you might consider opening your own mind and acquiring some perspective. A dose of Goaliedad's "cynicism" would do you no harm.</p>

62

<p>Wow, interesting replies! Thanks all. </p>

<p>No, I wasn't able to visit this school (or any of the others I applied to). I am definitely considering transferring to a school where I might feel more at home, but will use the rest of my time here to try to learn more about the different perspectives on the Left and be more open minded. I really like my school overall, and have been able to make friends (I just don't speak up about what I really think). </p>

<p>I appreciate the feedback tremendously. Sometimes when you are in the minority it is easy to feel intimidated by the majority, and cling even more tightly to what you have always believed.</p>

63

<p>consolation,</p>

<p>Was your reply #61 necessary?</p>

<p>whether you agree with conservatives or not, bashing differing views is hardly a way to facilitate rational discussion. </p>

<p>IMHO, an individual can take any position they want for whatever reason they want. Theological position? What is wrong with that? Is it any less "rational" than any other position?</p>

<p>Duerre, good luck, and don't let those that disagree discourage you. But do listen.</p>

64

<br>


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<p>Assuming this is true, why do you think things have turned out this way? Why is it that the Ivy League and the top LACS are all left-leaning, but when conservatives create and run a college it often ends up resembling Bob Jones? </p>

<p>It's a free country out there. No law says that a great college must be politically and socially liberal (although some would argue that strict and intolerant conservative thought and scholarly free enquiry are mutually antithetical). Rather than bemoaning the abundance of liberal thought at the current high-end schools, conservatives should found and build their own high-end schools. But for some reason they keep coming up with Bible schools.</p>

65

<p>Goaliedad, I wasn't calling your world-view silly at all. What was silly was your apparent asumption that mini doesn't have a lot of experience in the Islamic world and might not be taking it into account.</p>

66

<p>duerre - what you see as conservatism is perhaps being construed as intolerance or even bigotry by others. You need to understand that, to many, supporting the denial of rights to gays is disrespect. To many, denying women choices relating to their bodies is disrespect. It doesn't just mean name calling. People who disagree on these issues rarely have dispassionate conversations. I think you probably need to be in a place that is more socially conservative.</p>

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<p>cartera45,</p>

<p>And denying someone the right to lead prayer in school is viewed by some as disrespect. </p>

<p>And to label someone's view, regardless of how it differs from yours, as disrespectful is and of itself, disrespectful. </p>

<p>So, you can see that I for one don't see where you are coming from.</p>

68

<p>newmassdad: Yes, a "theological" position is by definition not a rational position. It is based on "faith," not reason or evidence. IMHO, certain political positions at both end of the spectrum qualify.</p>

69

<p>It is disappointing that most of our academic institutions are so pervasively liberal in perspective. A little ideological diversity would be good for everyone. Ideally, my kids would have an even mix of conservative and liberal professors, but my sense is that it will be more like 90% liberal, 10% conservative. Ironically, if the liberal views are too inescapable at college, my contrarian daughter will probably respond by becoming more conservative.</p>

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<p>I think they are far too conservative, and agree a little ideological diversity would be a good thing.</p>

71

<p>Okay, mini - I'll bite. In what respects are typical academics too conservative?</p>

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<p>The range of political thinking is generally from liberal democrat to conservative republican, which is a far, far smaller range than that of mainstream political thinking elsewhere. Economics mostly runs from the neo-Keynesians to the Friedmanites and the Laugher Curve - find out in how many economics departments they are reading Amartya Sen (Nobel Prize winner) as part of the core curriculum, or any substantial critique of "neo-liberalism" (the term itself, which is common parlance in most of the world, hardly appears in U.S. university circles.) At the Harvard School of Education, there isn't a single class where they teach Paolo Freire, likely the most important educator of the 20th century (you can read him in the Divinity School.) I think you'll find virtually the same in every school of education (with the happy exception of UI-Chicago and the work of William Ayers).</p>

73

<p>No offense taken JHS.</p>

<p>I didn't assume anything about mini when I made my statements. And he is certainly a more travelled person than I. However, my statements about the size of the non-Western world (population), the more conservative culture of the Islamic world (compared to western culture) and its constraints on academic thought and expression, and the growing influence of the Islamic world culture would indicate that the US is IMHO far from the right of the academic center of the world.</p>

<p>Mini's perspective and experiences are his own. While I don't have mini's reputation on this board, nor his post count, I'm sure that doesn't make every post of his gospel truth. ;)</p>

74

<p>
[quote]
the Laugher Curve

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I assume this is a deliberate misspelling? Heh.</p>

75

<p>Responding to Coureur's question - why do you think the best colleges reputation-wise tend to be the most uniform in their liberal views?</p>

<p>The typical response seems to be that there has been some underground liberal agenda to infiltrate the faculties and take over higher education. Amazing - no one proposes that there's been a clandestine movement by already-rich people to take over the medical profession, despite the fact that people in medicine tend to be wealthy. Why doesn't it occur to many people to wonder if there isn't something inherent in the educational experience at the highest levels that tends to make those experiencing it more liberal (just as there's something in the American medical environment that tends to make M.D.s rich!).</p>

<p>In fact, that's exactly the case. Pascarella and Terenzini, in their meta-analyses entitled "How College Affect Students" have analyzed all the existent research on college student outcomes to determine what kinds of collegiate experiences tend to produce what kinds of effects. And one of their most consistent findings throughout all of American colleges and universities is that a typical byproduct of higher education is a liberalizing of political views.</p>

<p>It's not hard to understand why. It is a rare 18-year-old who comes to college a global citizen, with perspectives and views that reflect a wide diversity of vantage points and traditions. But that's exactly the goal of what a quality higher education provides. </p>

<p>Nearly all of us came to college the products of the particular belief and value systems that were predominant in our families, communities and regions. As freshmen, we tended to define any deviations from our inbred doctrines as "wrong." The more we were exposed to that which was different and others who reflected the differing vantage points of their upbringings, we decided that we could be generous enough to practice tolerance toward the "wrongness" of others. Eventually, as we continued our explorations of difference, we came to realize that different didn't necessarily mean wrong. Finally, we got to the point where we were ready to re-examine our own sets of blinders and conclude that maybe some of our ideas had been the wrong ones all along. The whole process of higher education is one of freeing ourselves from preconceived barriers to the full range of thoughts and views.</p>

<p>At the point that you are ready to openly consider points of view that differ from what you'd always learned was "common sense," you are typically perceived in American society as being "liberal." And, in fact, that's exactly what your views are - wide in scope rather than narrow. Pat Terenzini offers a one-sentence condensation of his volume of >1,000 pages to this: Those experiences that tend to produce the most consistently positive college student outcomes are those which engage the student with "the different." So yes, liberal thinking tends to dominate the most educated circles of our society. It's really a natural end-product of the process.</p>

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<p>Fascinating, Mini. These are not names I'm familiar with. I will look into them. Maybe you're really onto something. Maybe our political scene is locked in stasis because our equilibrium point is too far to the right?</p>

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<p>I think I am starting to understand where mini and I are diverging on opinion, though. I am talking conservative in the sense of social control (more than economics) and academic freedom (from government control more than institutional control). </p>

<p>And to some extent I will agree that a lot of American academia has a very narrow perspective. But that is not because of a central controlling authority (although some would argue at university administrations through their hiring and tenure review practices do this). At least this culture through its elected government doesn't directly try to control (by rule - money is another issue) the nature of research. Can't be said of much of the world. </p>

<p>And while mini has found plenty of people of interesting perspective in his travels, those data points don't necessarily indicate that the system they work in is more liberal (in the personal liberties arena) than ours. Nor does it imply the overriding university culture (tenor of the student population, etc.) is more liberal than ours. The fact that we have the least restrictive expression controls here will frustrate the fringe elements who seem to live to poke at authority (and thereby building their reputations). It is far easier in other cultures to cause a stir and attract the attention of the authorities.</p>

<p>Yeah, there may be more marxists (if you call that the far left) in other parts of the world, but I think that is more because it is the forbidden fruit (considered akin to revolutionary thought). Marxist thought here is generally ignored these days here in academia - at least in comparison to decades past.</p>

<p>Point here is that there are lots of definitions of liberal and conservative. I think we are starting work around differences of definition.</p>

78

<p>
[quote]
Sometimes when you are in the minority it is easy to feel intimidated by the majority, and cling even more tightly to what you have always believed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, it is. I understand this, believe me. I've been threatened with violence over my political beliefs (though oddly, this was not in my childhood homestates of Kentucky and Georgia, but in true-blue Massachusetts...I have to wonder how the guy responsible interacts with, say, his neighbors). I was bullied for my (lack of) religion as a kid. I had a classmate in high school who was threatened with a shotgun for canvassing for the liberal congressional candidate.</p>

<p>Even beyond the more extreme incidents, I know what it's like to feel that nearly everyone around you must be living in a different universe where normal logic and reason don't apply. The fact that you and I would probably think that about each other doesn't mean I don't empathize. :) I imagine it must be even harder if you grew up being surrounded by people who agreed with you...culture shock on top of everything else.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I really like my school overall, and have been able to make friends (I just don't speak up about what I really think).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Maybe you should try starting very respectful, nonconfrontational, political discussions with the friends to whom you are closest. It is unfortunate that you feel you have to be closeted (and I can empathize with that, too). Among other things, it might do your friends good to put a human face on their political opponents (and I think it will probably do you good to have this chance to do so), and they may be moved to speak up if others are truly acting inappropriately toward you.</p>

<p>As for the profs...I am of two minds here, because we are getting your filtered version of things. On one hand, I have met (and had) teachers on both ends of the political spectrum who were as demagogic as what you describe. On the other hand, I have seen people misjudge teachers who had known political beliefs as demagogues when the teachers weren't. </p>

<p>I remember that I had a very liberal history teacher in high school, who <em>desperately</em> wanted people to argue with him. This guy really wanted young people to get involved in politics - despite being a flaming liberal, he sponsored the Young Republicans when nobody else would (the conservative teachers were too busy), because he said that it was good that they cared about what happened in politics and were getting involved. But nobody would argue with him in class - the liberal students agreed, and the conservative students thought that he was a demagogue who would mark them down. So he said more and more outrageous things, trying to force the class to react, to call him on it. Instead, and the conservative students decided that he was a frightening leftist who was persecuting them, and complained.</p>

<p>Try to figure out whether your profs are really as problematic as you think, or whether there's something else going on.</p>

79

<p>Duerre:</p>

<p>Three last things from me. </p>

<p>First, don't make yourself miserable. If you can't feel secure and excited in an environment where most people don't share your beliefs, then find an environment that suits you better. I hope it doesn't come to that, because it seems like you like a lot of things about your college, and because that kind of attitude may shut you off from some great opportunities in your life. But you know yourself best, and if you really can't handle it, don't feel like you have to.</p>

<p>Second, ask yourself why anyone should respect you for doing what you say you do -- disagreeing without ever expressing your disagreement, lying about what you think, complaining about the people around you anonymously? I get the feeling you don't even respect yourself for doing that. So start acting like someone worthy of respect. Politely, non-belligerently, say what you think. When you disagree, say you disagree, and why. Follow the normal rules of discussion, and look for common ground with people who disagree with you. You may well discover that you actually agree on a lot, and that the differences are like two tips of a huge iceberg that's all connected underwater. But people will respect you for doing that, and you will respect yourself. </p>

<p>And remember, if you feel scared and silenced, maybe other people do, too. If you speak out, it will make it easier for them, too, and then maybe you'll find that your views are more common there than you thnk. </p>

<p>Finally, recognize that you are not the first college freshman in history to feel a little scared and lonely in a place that's culturally very different from where he grew up. You CAN get the hang of it, and you CAN make a place for yourself there, where you can feel comfortable and true to yourself. Give it a shot before you give up.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much! I'm really happy I decided to post here. It's heartening to hear that others have had similar experiences to mine and have learned to cope with it. I have a feeling that opening up my views would really restore my sense of self-respect, and it is encouraging me to research and really think about why I think what I do, which is important. </p>

<p>I think that what is key to debate is to make sure that everyone feels respected and knows that others are really listening to what they have to say. Since I would like to be treated this way, I need to listen carefully to other perspectives and not automatically rule them out because they are new to me. Maybe if I am carefull to do this, others will do the same.</p>

<p>There is definitely a silver lining to this whole experience. There are lots of Democrats and others with more liberal views, and now is as good a time as any to learn to live with them. And articulating what I think is a valuable skill to have.</p>