If there is really so much legacy and cronyism (as I am coming to see there may be from CC and from talking to parents in my area) how do schools keep up their SAT averages? Or is it just that to get in with a lower SSAT score (which I am assuming they use to predict SAT scores in some sense) you MUST be a legacy? Just wondering because I know some legacies applying to schools that I think are a huge reach for them and at which I think they would be miserable and I am quite interested to see if they get in.
The part where I am really sad for the kids because their parents insist on a “top ten” school but they are not kids who will thrive in said school goes without saying.
Oops, missed the main point. LOL. My teacher friend just said to me “well they qualify them as learning disability kids and don’t include their SAT scores in the reported average.” Is that what’s going on?
The schools obviously see some benefit in admitting legacy students. Not all legacies have low SSAT scores. The legacy students in fact generally have better K-8 preparation and score on par with other high performing students. There are always outliers.
Also note that SSAT scores are not a good predictor of college success. I know of many low SSAT scorers who go onto get 4.0 in high school grades, and vice versa. GPA is generally considered one of the best predictors of college success.
Please ask your teacher friend for a source, because I’m filing this one under “Don’t believe everything you hear.”
But back to the main question. For the highly selective schools at least, legacy may provide a slight edge to the qualified applicant, but none of these schools will admit students who are unable to do the work. There are plenty of examples on this site alone of legacy kids being rejected.
Unless you, or your “teacher friend” has read the full application, any overarching statement on “cronyism” merits no further discussion.
Is your friend a college professor? If not, I don’t know how they’d know if a student is registered with the school’s disability service office or what’s in the reported averages.
I work at a selective university. The children of graduates all seem very capable. They have the added advantage of understanding the school’s culture and what they find valuable. Legacy, like other hooks, doesn’t mean less intelligent. I don’t know how much you know about the records of the students you’re worrying about, but I wouldn’t stress over it. Colleges have staff to help students adjust. I’m sure they’ll be just fine.
@austinmshauri Sorry, I should have been more clear, I am talking about prep schools, not colleges.
And I know quite a lot about the kids I am talking about. They read their report cards and comments to me, they tell me their SSAT scores, they talk about school a lot with me. (These are kids who tell me who they like and make me promise not to tell their parents.) Needless to say, I have a good handle on who the kids are and what makes them tick.
@skieurope While I haven’t read their applications I have read enough of their writing, helped on a lot of homework for these kids, to know how questions will be answered (unless parents write essays for them). However, I do know all their EC’s etc. so if accepted I can say, without a glimmer of a doubt, it was legacy admittance.
Dear OP: I will share with you that during Revisits to several schools, we found a large number of legacy kids on each day. At 3 of the schools, the kids were wearing ribbons with badges that basically identified them as legacies (with parent year also). The parents who were alums also had special name badges. It was kind of a new thing for Kiddo to see because we don’t live in an area where the BS experience is common. This was first evident to us when we had a visit and interview to one Boston area school with a large legacy influence. There were several kids being interviewed that day and they had a special “badge” and welcome sign. Kiddo noticed that AO’s and faculty members came to greet them and make small talk because they were known. Not saying we were treated this way (well maybe by one school)…but…We kind of felt like the “poor relations”…actually we kind of are (LOL)!
Did you ever see the Family Guy episode about this topic?
FWIW we also visited schools where there seems to be a large number of siblings. This could just be an artifact of demographics…same with faculty kids that are bunched together by birth year. The legacy kids at our school do seem to have a leg up on information @ popular teachers, good courses, easy graders, toughest teachers, etc…also possibly dorm/house placement. It’s not going to change…but for us, we had wished we had prepared kiddo about the legacy thing before interviews and Revisits.
Have a sense of humor about it and know that one day your grandkids will be legacies $-)
Perhaps a better title: “Is legacy cronyism?” Because that’s what’s really being asked and the two are not synonymous from the get go. We are not a legacy family, but I’m not opposed to it, assuming the students are qualified and therefore it does not meet the definition of cronyism. Love the families that love your school…just like we read to love the school that loves you.
Dont equate SSAT scores with intelligence or other measure of academic worth. Standardized test scores most often correlate with family income and other factors already mentioned. While the total package matters for any applicant, grades are most predictive of performance.
I would say that from my experience legacy children enjoy the “in the know” stuff where a non-legacy family will have no clue. No clue on how to potentially game the grading system before its tool late, “work” the faculty and other administrators, etc. And when I say work the faculty, I mean this in a way that students from a public school will have no past experience. Many of these students are repeats (most schools ~ 30% right?) and some of them have come from a junior boarding school environment, all experiences that provide them with social capital from day one. They are not afraid of putting themselves out there to advocate for themselves as that’s the environment from which they came and feel comfortable. These are all challenges that a non-legacy student must navigate early on to be successful. You hope that the saying “a rising tide lifts all boats” applies to all students, but the baked in benefits for some students cannot be ignored.
I’m sure this varies quite a bit from school to school, but I always felt like legacy status at my children’s school mostly connoted warm family ties. It seemed like a good thing; people loved their school and loved their children and wanted them to go to the school they loved. Any associated perks were not rubbed in the faces of the other students and families. If some students had already learned the behaviors of entitlement from their native environments, so be it. None of us can change the circumstances of our birth.
This is my take on the legacy issue… We are an immigrant family, so we do not have any “legacy” to speak of. That said, I do not have any problems with the legacy system. If the parents are loyal enough to the institution that they’ll put the future of their children in the institutions hands, I see that as a positive for the institution. Hopefully, we can create a “legacy” of our own, so that it would benefit the future generations of our family. People probably would see that as selfish, but that is a way to to level the playing field in the future.
I’m against legacy though the colleges I attended are ones that have tiny acceptance rates. It’s just the concept of ANYONE following their parents is strange to me.
For BS, though we have no legacies to speak of, I’m not against it. Kids are younger and parents are supposed to be helping direct their lives at this point.
Yes, we have seen many legacies are weaker academically. We have also seen the repeats someone mentioned seem to be stronger in athletics than in the classroom.
I don’t remember special badges for legacy kids/parents that would have been a turnoff for me if it was for kids ( not for parents because they did earn graduation).
At a revisit day, a parent asked my kid where they had gone to school. Local public said my kid. This guy snuffed like he was Thurston Howell. Then he introduced his son, a repeat!!! We laughed a lot about that later.
As for social capital, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Thanks for putting it into words. Yes, kids need to learn to advocate for themselves. And in the rarefied air of any boarding school some kids and parents will work it to their advantage.
I would say there are some advantages enjoyed by legacies.
Most schools have a parent essay and/or parent interview. Parents who have attended BS or have other kids who have, can often speak compellingly about why they think their child would thrive at BS.
BS parents may start the process earlier and have a slightly better idea of what the particular BS they’re targeting is looking for, for instance encouraging their middle school child to try out for field hockey, a sport in which the BS fields a team, instead of volleyball, a sport in which it doesn’t, or practicing shaking hands with a direct gaze in advance of the interview.
Like colleges, prep schools look out for their yield. A legacy is more likely to enroll, making them more attractive, all other things on the application being equal. On the flip side this can hurt a legacy at a peer school of their parent’s school in that other schools may assume they’ll have a hard time getting a legacy from another school to enroll at theirs.
As to knowing the quality of your kid’s friends’ applications I can only speak from my experience. One of my kids had truly abysmal SSATs. We’re talking horrible, not CC “woe is me” “horrible”. One school which gets a lot of applications from her middle school admitted her anyway and she’s now on the high honor roll. My sense is that her teachers were able to speak to her ability despite the low scores. Another of my kids had major middle school accomplishments even their best friends didn’t know about. A third was the only one to apply as a legacy and was admitted to the school, a school which rejected many kids with similar stats. My kid turned down the legacy school for another equally good quality school which obviously saw the same qualities the legacy school found attractive. Without being in the room when admissions decisions are made you can never know what put a kid’s application into one pile or the other.
@Sue22 Yes, much is true. And it is good that grades are ultimately the arbiter of who is doing well at the school, not SSAT scores. But you can know some things about various applicants. if you kids has spent many years with kid X who is known for his laziness and entitlement and type A successful parents and you know kid Y always seems to treat others well and excels based on repeated performance, you might have some insight. We live in a small town and people know each others kids since they were babies! Probably doesn’t happen in a town with hundreds of kids per grade, but in a small school/small town you do have some insight. Though it’s true maybe they accepted the kid due to his marching band skills. Lol. Or other specialized skills.
I also think that savvy parents who didn’t go to boarding school know a lot. I learned a lot from CC for example regarding BS applications. I’m sure others have as well. For example, it’s important to attend the school meet and greets. And to contact coaches etc. There are many well heeled kids who seem to know what is expected and their parents did not attend BS. Remember that many of the parents have executive jobs so can easily answer the question why us? Kids might have a hard time for the first school but they catch on quick.
OP- BS legacy pools are ridiculously competitive. It can also be an unholy Arm’s Race -depending on which BSs we’re talking about.
Yeah… but let’s tell ourselves that legacies are mostly a bunch of dumb rich athletes who drag “Top Ten” schools down, and take beds away from smarter more deserving students. Talk about a reach! Besides- why would you care about other kids and their families when you’re not even in that pool?
13 " It would be interesting & helpful to know the names of the schools who designate legacies during revisit days."
“Yes, we have seen many legacies are weaker academically.”
At my kids’ school, this did not seem to be the case (and FYI, we were not a legacy family). In fact, I was privy to information that showed that legacy students had higher then average stats. It was very difficult to get in as a legacy as well. As someone said previously, many legacy students are better prepared/groomed to go to BS.
I don’t think legacies are less qualified (generally speaking). My children are applying to my alma mater as legacies and both have SSAT scores above their average, excellent grades, etc. I’m sure there are exceptions to every rule, but I would hate to see legacy children painted with a negative brush simply because they have a family connection to the school. I do think it provides a small admissions advantage, but I haven’t noticed any special treatment. In addition - I think it actually makes it more difficult to apply to other schools because they assume you will want your child to attend the legacy option.
