<p>be aware that every LS has different rules for its loan forgiveness programs. Moreover, that debt will be his until it is forgiven, which means that it will stick out like a sore thumb if he tries to buy a house. Also, loan forgiveness maybe calculated used total household income, so if your S marries someone making some decent money…</p>
<p>Debt vs. scholarship is an individual gamble – and I use that word purposely.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>It does seem that gamble is exactly the right word. As of today S is a little more up and it sounds like he is thinking about going for debt if he can get into one of a few top schools. We’ll see, his thought is if he doesn’t get a government job he will get a private sector job for big money. If he goes that way I hope it turns in his favor one way or another but it definitely is a gamble.</p>
<p>I have a friend at the University of Miami (obviously not top top tier) who has a 3.8 gpa and got a 169 LSAT score and has already been admitted to two top 10 law schools. Good Luck… LSAT isn’t everything!</p>
<p>Thanks for the encouragement Collegegirl, it is good get reinforcement about him still being in the game. I wish he were getting his aps out sooner. But I’m still holding on to the thought that if it doesn’t work out this year he could be stronger and earlier next year so I’m at least hoping it will work out.</p>
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<p>Of course not. It is ~50% of the admissions equation. (It’s value increases as the gpa decreases, however.)</p>
<p>I have heard mention of ratios and equations. This may sound naive but is there an actual equation? If so where does one find it to figure out their chances?</p>
<p>there are a couple of sites for Top Law wannabes. And for chances, aka Predictor.</p>
<p>Can’t link to the site because it would be a violation of cc’s terms, but if you google the above key words…</p>
<p>lawfuture - there are a lot of websites that can provide data to help you estimate your sons’ chances. I will pm those to you. Also your son can ask the law adviser at his UG about stats of previous applicants from his college. The information specific to his UG is particularly relevant. I have heard (anecdotally online) that some UG’s have successful law school applicants with average scores under the reported medians. Think of it like Naviance for law school (with far fewer data points). Also he can see where he stands among his fellow applicants from his undergrad (although that info is available on his LSAC account too).</p>
<p>Good luck - my daughter is applying also - and I am trying to provide NO guidance (as she desires) so I just research on line and am prepared just in case she asks for advice! Also I like to be prepared for all the financial apps too. Good luck</p>
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<p>LSAT:GPA</p>
<p>YLS 2.30
HLS 3.02
SLS 2.01
Columbia 3.62
UChicago 3.04
NYU 3.60
Boalt 1.67
UPenn 3.06
UMich 4.50
UVA 3.60
Duke 2.84
Northwestern 3.00
Cornell 3.95
GULC 4.28</p>
<p>Well, if LSAT + GPA = 100 percent, then at HLS, LSAT is worth 75.1 percent, whereas GPA is worth 24.9 percent.</p>
<p>NewEnglandMother: Thank you for the great information. Good luck to your daughter. I’m also pretty much trying to figure things out from the sidelines just in case.</p>
<p>Kwu: I’m sorry about my ignorance but I don’t understand those numbers. What do they mean? Obviously not a math major here.</p>
<p>^ re post 29: it’s the LSAT:GPA ratio of how heavily each is weighted.</p>
<p>^^^So does that mean if the ratio is 2.30:1 for LSAT :GPA?</p>
<p>One more question which maybe could be a thread of its own. If my S applies to schools this cycle and either doesn’t get in or does get in and decides not to go, (that would most likely be due to money) is it frown upon for him to reaply to the same school again either with a higher LSAT, earlier in the next year’s cycle or with a little more cash after having worked for a year? Is there a need to explain reapplication?</p>
<p>THe application will ask if you have previously applied to the school and the outcome. </p>
<p>His reapplication would be looked down upon if he did not accept due to money.
Remember your son will be considered an independent student for law school. Some schools will look at the income assets of both parent and spouse if the student is under 27 (30 at some schools). The student will still have to file the FAFSA an some school will ask for need access, to get the financial information from the parents.</p>
<p>The majority of financial aid for law school will come in the form of loans. There are no longer subsidized loans for grad school. Your son can theoretically borrow the entire cost of law school as a direct loan from the federal government (based on his credit worthiness). </p>
<p>If money is going to be an issue, perhaps he may have to consider working in order to afford law school. He should check the policy for deferral before he applies as some schools will only allow you to defer for TFA/Peace Corp or to fulfill complete military service. Perhaps he should consider working a couple of years while living at home to bank money before he applies.</p>
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<p>That just cries out for kwu’s source document, does it not? (and in particular, a source doc that was produced by real statisticians, or former adcoms)</p>
<p>But assuming it to be even close to being correct, how does the math work?</p>
<p>btw: take YLS: mean gpa of 3.9, and mean lsat of 173.</p>
<p>lsat/gpa ratio = 173/3.90 = 44.36. How does one get to a “2.3”?</p>
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<p>I happened to be on the site lawschoolpredictor and saw the values posted as “LSAT/GPA Ratio,” then noticed lawfuture’s question about post 29. Just trying to be the information middleman here. The site explains the ratio this way:
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<p>I hope I’m within the TOS to post this link: [Law</a> School Predictor: Full-Time Programs](<a href=“http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-content/uploads/Law-School-Predictor-Full-Time-Programs.htm]Law”>http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-content/uploads/Law-School-Predictor-Full-Time-Programs.htm) And many apologies if I’m not within the TOS - I really try to be. The site isn’t a discussion board or social/commercial site, so I hope it’s okay.</p>
<p>thanks frazzled. I’m sure if you breached the ToS, you won’t be severely chastised. :)</p>
<p>btw, did you happen to see this in the faq:</p>
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<p>Yale is one of those that does not publish/have a formula. So, I ask again, where does that “2.3” come from?</p>
<p>So what I’m getting from this is that it is pretty confusing and that perhaps my best shot at guessing the likelihood of admission would be by going to the predictor websites. A couple of which both myself and my son have checked out.</p>
<p>Sybbie: So it is clear that schools will be asking if he had previously applied, but if he had new credentials, more work experience, or a higher lsat score or even if he just applied next year with similar credentials but earlier in the cycle do you think that would be a negative. That is assuming he is applying to a school that he previously was not accepted to. </p>
<p>The other part would be if he was accepted but did not receive scholarship money. At this point my S is pretty much thinking of borrowing the full cost as daunting as that seems. I expect that over Christmas break we will have time for face to face discussion about the implecations of this but by then I expect the applications will be out. In the end it is his decision and his debt, but yes very scarey. I suppose of that reality hit him hard it would be time for him to speak with the school about deferral or reapplying when he had better credentials or more cash. But from the gist of what you said you think that reapplying to a school that previously accepted you would be frown upon.</p>
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<p>In the event that he is waitlisted or deferred this cycle, he can still update his file with new credentials (retaking the LSAT).ONe year of work experience would not be significant or what the school considers significant work experience (5, years work experience, TFA, MIlitary, Peace Corp, Americorp, etc), for unhooked applicants it will not make an appreciable difference in the admissions decision. The raise in LSAT would have to be significant (~6 points). Some schools will ask for an explanation if there are multiple test with a 5 to 6 point spread. </p>
<p>Applying the following year without any significant credentials, even earlier in the cycle is probably going to net the same result as I believe the school holds the original application for at least a year and the student would have to submit new everything (essays, recommendation letters, scores). Some schools will not consider reapplicants for early review/admission You/he can check his list of schools for the school’s policy on reapplication.</p>
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<p>If he has received any fee waivers, he should just apply now to schools that he may stand a good chance of admissions and scholarship money.</p>
<p>Here is an old thread</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/793436-how-much-does-applying-being-rejected-one-year-effect-your-chances-future-years-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/793436-how-much-does-applying-being-rejected-one-year-effect-your-chances-future-years-2.html</a></p>
<p>Be careful about the LSAT/GPA weighting that was given above. It’s used very, very loosely. Besides, the numbers on LSP often don’t even agree with the information offered by LSAC, and they break down particularly when you get to situations where one or both of the LSAT and GPA are outside of the 25th/75th percentile range.</p>