<p>"By the way, people that keep putting these liberal arts college like Harvey Mudd over schools like USC and UCLA have got to be out of their damn mind. Schools like SDSU and Cal Poly are NOT in the same league as any of the top 10 schools. THey are not even in the same discussion. Has anyone looked at the stats for their students? Hell, you can transfer to Cal Poly from a JC with a 2.0 GPA. "</p>
<p>Have YOU looked at their stats? Average cal poly transfers have gpa's of around 3.4. Freshmen have around a 3.9. I would rank at least 2 CSU's above various UC's.</p>
<p>Here are my top 10 in the nation
1. Harvard
2. MIT
3. Stanford
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Caltech
7. Brown
8. Caltech
9. UCB
10. Duke</p>
<p>Now I may not have actually looked into these schools, but I sure have heard their names mentioned a lot. I mean, if lots of people keep saying the same things these schools must be the best.</p>
<p>/sarcasm off.</p>
<p>Look at the programs, look what a school has to offer, look at what your getting.</p>
<p>lol. people obviously do not do their research when it comes to academic competitions between schools. if you want to see how well students fair to one another at other schools, look at the standings in the International Programming Competitions, the Applied Mathematics Competitions (MCM), and the William Putnum Pure Mathematics Competition. </p>
<p>if mudd is so bad, how did it kick mit's ass in the MCM modeling competition in 2004? infact, how did 3 of mudd's groups get into top 12 while mit only had 1 with 20 times the students? furthermore, mudd has been top 12 for 9 years.</p>
<p>i'm sorry for making you feel bad by smashing your argument.</p>
<p>oh... i do have much respect for mit, btw. it is an exceptional institution by all accounts. i'm sorry i used it in my example as a negative pedalpoint.</p>
<p>No it proves a point that many people looking at colleges dont see. That theres more to schools than name recognition and statistics. Schools are great because of the opportunities they provide students and the ability of students to take advantage of them. It also shows that HYPMS or in this instance ("top cali schools) are not the end of the road. Plenty of good schools out there, just do your research.</p>
<p>"By the way, people that keep putting these liberal arts college like Harvey Mudd over schools like USC and UCLA have got to be out of their damn mind. Schools like SDSU and Cal Poly are NOT in the same league as any of the top 10 schools. THey are not even in the "same discussion. Has anyone looked at the stats for their students? Hell, you can transfer to Cal Poly from a JC with a 2.0 GPA. Poly belongs UNDER Biola, SDSU etc. as do all the cal state schools. Matter of fact, ANY cal state school should be automatically ranked under ANY UC school."</p>
<p>You are out of your mind. Cal poly is easilly equal to mid tear uc's. It is not your normal cal state. You statement that any csu should be ranked below any uc is ridiculous. cal poly whoops riverside and merced and santa cruz in difficulty to gain admittance too. Check the stats, i believe slo's excellent reputation, especially in specific areas such architecture, speaks for itself. Harvey Mudd and other claremont schools belong in the same league as ucla ucsd and usc as well. They are extremely difficult to gain admittance to, and are three of the best liberal arts schools in the country. Top liberal arts schools can deff be ranked with some of the best reaearch universities. Just because their liberal arts colleges, does not mean they are academically inferior.</p>
<p>phear, we're talking about Pomona College and not one of the Cal States at Pomona, am I right?</p>
<p>If that is the case, I don't see why Pomona College shouldn't be in the top 15 California undergraduate institutions (or top 5). And no, I'm not a student anywhere (high school senior waiting decisions).</p>
<p>Regarding Academic Competitions, I will use myself as an example:</p>
<p>Because MIT had to send it's BEST students right? I was undefeated in parlimentary debate in HS. My ghetto HS entire debate program WAS ME. I made it to state finals in mock congressional debates, and I almost didn't even have a way to get up there. One teacher would give me articles to look over the day of - and I would go own everyone at the competition. My school actually got ranked - it was so stupid. Does that mean that Richard Gahr highschool in cerritos has a great debate team, cause we sent someone all the way to the finals? Or, does it mean that one student out of 3200 happened to be talented in this arena? What if I had never joined the debate team (in exchange for a free A in my AP civics class)? Then my HS would suck right? But since I joined "the team" my HS has a GREAT debate program and so is a GREAT highschool right (cause one competition is apperantly reflective of the entire university). Heck, maybe I SUCK at debate and just got lucky. </p>
<p>Come on man ... lots of qualified people don't give a rats arse about those competitions so they are not reflective of the school as a whole. Furthermore, it is ONE sort of competition. A lot of MIT students have better things to do than prove how great their school is by winning. They are already at MIT - enough said. </p>
<p>Regarding Cal Poly Pomona, I know tons of people who transferred in with a sub 3.0 GPA. That just doesn't impress me. Sorry, but Cal States are the repository for the UC rejects. </p>
<p>Harvey Mudd being Equal with USC/UCLA ... not in this lifetime sucker. Consider endowment, fascilities, quality of profs etc. etc. and not just GPA and SAT (which are still lower than the other schools anyways).</p>
<p>Let me make another point: Biola University probably has the best undergraduate Theology/Religion program in the world. I mean that. IN THE WORLD. The requirements are ridiculous. The unit load is insane. You have to learn PHD level textual criticism in ancient dead languages. The faculty is an all star cast. And yet, there Biola sits. Lowly national university. Why? Because it sucks rectum at a bunch of other things. I could sit here and say, "The Biola philosophy/theology students whip on ivy leaguers all day" which is true. But then what do I say when the Ivy Leagues pull out their other 300 majors and crush the lowly little evangelical school? Do you see my point here? Your reason is flawed kiddo ...sorry to crush your rebuttal.</p>
<p>phear_me, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT CAL POLY POMONA. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CAL POLY SAN LUIS OBISPO. There is a very, very, very big difference. we are also talking about pomona college. Pomona college is a claremont school. why are you even talking about cal poly pomona?... it is not even in the same league as cal poly slo and pomona college. pomona college may not be quite up to ucla, but it is surely an equal with usc. obviously you know nothing about cal poly slo and pomona college if your getting those two schools mixed up with cal poly pomona, which is an easy school to gain admittance too, even easier than cal state long beach and san diego state. haha and your trying to tell me how great biola is.... this is a joke im not even gonna respond anymore, hopefully other posters will let you know whats up. ya theres tons of people who choose biola's theology department over ivy leagues hahahaha righttttttt. it may be a good program, but chosen over ivy leagues, hahaha.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>YOU may not have been talking about Cal Poly Pomona, but others were. Furthermore, USC is ranked 30th with a steadily improving score year by year. UCLA is ranked 25th and has been hovering. UCLA will be subject to budget cuts from CA and will soon be surpassed by USC. Also, I concure that SLO is a much tougher school than Cal Poly, but others ahead of you said "Cal Poly" and that is what I was responding to you ass clown. </p></li>
<li><p>Furthermore, I know of at least 5 people that turned down Ivy's to go to Biola's undergrad theology program. I also know no less than 20 people who went from Biola's undergrad theology program into Ivy's for their masters. That particular program is HIGHLY regarded, but if you look at where I ranked Biola, it was 3rd from the bottom of my list for National Universities. I am giving a fair and honest appraisal of the school, as I have for the others. Biola has a unique draw and people go there for different reasons than other schools. In terms of Theology, Biola is considered by many to be the cream of the crop and would outright b-tchslap many of the Ivy's in terms of undergrad theological study. BIOLA = BIBLE INSTITUTE OF LOS ANGELES. A minor in Theology is is required by all students. I've done my homework on Biola. It will be a top 120 university in 25 years. A modest, but attainable goal. </p></li>
<li><p>You're talking about a discipline you know nothing about - I would just shush if I were you. My overall ranking of the school is reflective of it's weaknesses, but so is my statement regarding it's theology program. The theology program is indeed, world renown.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>hahaha you just keep getting better and better, calling me an ass clown. itd be interesting if youd say that to my face. none of the others were talking about cal poly pomona, what are u talking about?... where did they say cal poly pomona?... the other posters were clearly talking about pomona college and cal poly slo. its just funny you cant keep them straight. if you knew anything about california colleges except about biola's "great" theology department, you would know that a cal poly posted on the list of top california colleges is clearly cal poly slo, not cal poly pomona... but then again you did include biola on your list amongst of top california universities.... and if you knew anything about budget cuts you would know that california education is not in a phase of budget cuts, that has already ended, and funding for public education is on the rise again in california. keep studying theology and work hard so you can attend biola! its a very lofty goal! haha and how did biola and theology get brought up by you, it has absolutely nothing to do with are original debate or the posters question. why are you bringing up biola and its theology program, or attempting to state it will crack the top 120 univerities. No one cares about universities rankings above 120, come on. this is ridiculous. this post is about top california colleges, not ones ranked in the high hundreds or wherever biola is ranked if it is even ranked in us news. biola doesnt even belong on californias list of top universities, not even close. i meen who wouldnt choose biola over any ivy league for theology, haha. good luck on your acceptance into biola's theology program, i here admission is rigorous. haha</p>
<p>"I've done my homework on Biola. It will be a top 120 university in 25 years."
-you got it all figured out, biola is clearly the "cream of the crop". hahaha</p>
<p>"UCLA will be subject to budget cuts from CA and will soon be surpassed by USC."<br>
-thats funny too, although not near as funny as the other parts of your post. </p>
<p>im gonna have to revise my ranking after evaluating these last postings haha:</p>
<ol>
<li>Biola (mainly do to their theology department)</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>UCSD</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>UCI</li>
<li>UCSB</li>
<li>UC Davis</li>
<li>Cal Poly SLO (San luis Obispo for those who get it mixed up with other universities whose names resemble it).</li>
</ol>
<p>Once again, here is how I ranked the National Universities, intentionally leaving out the liberal arts colleges. </p>
<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Cal Tech*</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>UC San Diego</li>
<li>UC Santa Barbara</li>
<li>UC Davis</li>
<li>Pepperdine</li>
<li>UC Irvine</li>
<li>UC Santa Cruz</li>
<li>UC Riverside</li>
<li>UC Merced</li>
<li>University of the Pacific</li>
<li>University of San Diego</li>
<li>Unversity of San Francisco</li>
<li>San Diego State</li>
<li>Biola University</li>
<li>University of Lavern</li>
<li>Alliant</li>
</ol>
<p>Notice, despite the fact that I believe (this is MY opinion, right?) that Biola has and is often regarded as having the best undergraduate theology program in the country by many, I ranked it 15 out of 17 universities of it's class in the state. I believe that it fairly ranks over U of Lavern and Alliant but fairly ranks under SDSU and U OF SF etc. etc. </p>
<p>I was clear that it would be crushed by other schools in multiple departments, but that in terms of Theology, that particular university is not to be trifled with. Kind of like how someone wouldn't go to MIT to get the worlds best english degree - but in reverse.</p>
<p>Biola?? No offense, but I know several people at my school who got in last year with an 800/1600 SAT score and low GPAs as well...I don't know anything about their theology department but overall, it sure doesn't look like a top CA school. As for the Christian theme to Biola, I'd say Westmont ranks higher. </p>
<p>And the University of La Verne, who can't get in? They seem to be dolloping out scholarships to anyone who'd even consider ther college...</p>
<p>"Harvey Mudd being Equal with USC/UCLA ... not in this lifetime sucker. Consider endowment, fascilities, quality of profs etc. etc. and not just GPA and SAT (which are still lower than the other schools anyways)"</p>
<p>let's talk some theology...MY GOD, YOU ARE AMAZING!</p>
<p>of course, that was sarcasm. sat scores are higher and hs gpas are higher at mudd. 1470/1600. 1/4-1/3 national merit scholars and/or valedictorians.</p>
<p>
[quote]
is often regarded as having the best undergraduate theology program in the country by many
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Care to site any source? Can you not make outrageous claims that the philosophy/theology students could destroy any other program's kids based on almost nothing?</p>
<p>It is very difficult to find statistics as there are no "theological" competitions. I can say this:</p>
<p>Biola singlehandedly founded the fundamentalist movement, and is one of the primary foundations of the transition to the evangelical movement - which are without a doubt, the two most impactful Christian perspectives in this country. </p>
<p>Biola requires every single student to minor in theology, and the undergraduate majors take PHD level courses including a MINIMUM of two years of ancient koine greek or ancient hebrew - courses are offered in chaldae as well. I don't know too many theology undergrads that can walk away from their campus with the ability to read the ancient papyri off of site translation in one of 3 langauges - which in turn allows for serious textual critical analysis, which in turn belies superior translation and understanding of the text. Not to mention the mandatory study of the ancient near east culture/geography and serious study of judaism, islam, pantheistic culture and the syncratistic beliefs. Further evidence for the strength of the program is the fact that the theology major requires 93 units, which is about 30 more than any other degree at any other university using the semester system - so you get 50% more class than other schools offer. Plug this in with the built in motivation of the students at Biola to study theology (you must swear that you are a Christian to attend the school - of course this is not fullproof but it does tend to work out) who then have personal life reasons for studying harder than the average college student. Lets also consider the fact that tons of kids turn down superior schools. For example, the average UNweighted GPA is 3.54 - I believe weighted it's just under 3.7 with an average ACT of 24 - with new SAT's I don't know the numbers for that, but they are not impressive - I think 1150 is the average on the old score. Students routinely turn down top schools to get a piece of the theology/philosophy program (nearby USC has 3 times more current Phd students from Biola than any other school currently represented - for example). Sure, the school is underfunded, poorly known outside of California, and does often times let in inferior students. The fascilities are lackluster and just now starting to improve, decades too late. That is why, again, out of 17 institutions of it's class, I only ranked it above Alliant and Laverne, schools who's average GPA's/ACT score are FAR FAR below Biola's. I think Biola will see some solid movemebt into the top 100 and get stuck there for a long time. I think that is a reasonable assesment. </p>
<p>You people are acting like idiots. I ranked 14 other schools ahead of it, and only 2 behind it. I INTENTIONALLY left out liberal arts colleges for the same reason that US News does so - because it confuses the rankings when you compare apples to oranges. I am going to USC so I am not on a huge Biola bandwagon - I'm on a huge USC bandwagon and I believe they will be in the top 20 within 10 years. </p>
<p>Honestly though, how many of you people know ANYTHING about Theology to even have an opinion on this? I have a degree in theology and one in philosophy so I feel fit to comment. What makes YOU fit to comment on a schools theology program? Biola is a theological school - that is what it does. It makes sense that it would have a very strong theological program and I think I have provided evidence for that. Saying I think Biola is the best school in the universe is stupid and you people are acting like children. I said it had a world renown theology program, and it does. Going to easter mass does not qualify you to have an opinion on this.</p>