My high school senior has struggled with a mental illness since Sophomore year. We are applying to colleges and trying to decide who to ask for recommendation letters. Because of her giftedness and the invisible nature of her disability, many of her teachers have not really understood her struggle to stay afloat in school. She has continued to make A’s with her 504 plan accommodations…although many of her teachers have reluctantly given her help. She wants to major in theatre and gender students. I know most colleges prefer 11/12th grade core subject teachers. but 1) Is it better for her to include at least one 9th grade teachers that can speak about her performance before the illness when she was more the ideal student? 2) Do we need a performing arts teacher recommendation, because she wants to be a theatre major? Because her health issues have affected her ability to reliability perform, she feels like her performing arts teachers (who have taught her 3/4 years) don’t really have a favorable impression of her. She has a summer theatre program teacher that she was going to ask for a performing arts recommendation if it was needed, but her counselor said that the primary recommendations need to be from the school. Thanks for your help!
If your D uses a teacher who taught her in 9th grade and hasn’t taught her in 11th or 12th grade, that’s going to raise questions. Also, she has continued to make As in her classes since then. Why would she be unable to get a recent teacher to give her a recommendation? Recommendations can speak to the student’s drive, efforts, kindness, quality of their work, participation, etc. I’d have a hard time believing that your D hasn’t shown any of those qualities in the last several years. Additionally, when asking for a recommendation, I always find it best to ask, “Would you be willing to write me a positive recommendation?” If a teacher doesn’t feel they can write a positive recommendation, then they won’t accept.
No. But depending on what kind of a theater major your daughter wants to be (especially if she wants a BFA) there will likely be an audition process. If she wants to do a BA in theatre at a school with no audition requirement, then she could submit a video of a performance, but she does not have to, nor does she need to get a recommendation from a performing arts teacher.
If your daughter is applying to schools that ask for two teacher recommendations, the general advice is to have one from the humanities/social sciences and one from a STEM field, though you should always follow any school-specific application instructions.
If this is indeed the case, how does she plan to pursue a theater major in college? Or have her health issues been managed so that it will no longer affect her ability to perform?
Is there a reason why you think that none of your D’s teachers have a favorable impression of her? Having been a teacher, I find most teachers can almost always find something positive to say about a kid. I have a hard time believing that none of her teachers would have anything positive to say about her.
Generally colleges want recommendations from two teachers in core subjects: one STEM, one humanities (this may vary a bit between colleges, but is often the best strategy, especially with competitive schools). Some colleges allow an optional third LOC - that one could be from the theater teacher, but it would be optional.
This worries me a bit. You certainly want to avoid leaving the impression that she is not the “ideal student” she used to be leaving open the possibility that she has not overcome/mitigated her mental health struggles. You need to reassure colleges that she will be successful at the college and not leave open the possibility that she is no longer as capable of doing that. For this reason, I would think it all the more important to get an LOC from a RECENT teacher who can speak to her ability to succeed NOW and not three years ago.
I don’t remember if it is evident that a teacher is from 9th grade. Someone else can maybe help with that!
I would look into doing an arts supplement. I don’t know what a theater one looks like but most likely a video, resume and letter(s) of recommendation related to theater.
Even if she does not do a supplement, it might be worthwhile to call colleges’ admission offices (don’t talk to a student, I would say) and ask if they take supplementary letters of recommendation from teachers and mentors outside of school. It can make a difference.
Is the guidance counselor going to write about her mental health? Your daughter can say no to that and should- not legal! Were there absences? Hospitals? If she has so many A’s, it looks like she will do fine with transcripts so nothing needs to be said at all by GC or daughter.
Feel free to PM me. Been there.
ps we have experienced teachers being annoyed by 504 plan accommodations, who do not understand the concept of a level playing field, and who we would have worried about in terms of letters of recommendation. There are great teachers out there who do get it but also some who don’t. So I get the concern.
DD’s recovery hasn’t been linear. Due to her disability she waxes/wanes with motivation. Teachers that have seen her ability in 9th grade have a hard time really understand the change. We already have her 11th AP English teacher rec, but need another. If 9th grade teachers are out and we are focusing on science/math, that leaves only 1 math and 1 science teacher in grades 10/11. Her 10th grade Honors Precalc teacher was very sympathetic and went above and beyond her 504 plan to help her. 11th grade Honors Chem teacher not so much, but the workload wasn’t an issue for DD so we never had to ask. In both classes she wasn’t “hard working,” but her intellect got her through and she made A+ in both classes…I assume the Chem teacher is better bc she’s from 11th grade? However we like that 10th Precalc teacher can speak to her ability to overcome.
While DD’s grades are great, she only takes 3 or 4 core classes and 2 or 3 arts classes AND she didn’t pursue more rigorous core coursework (more honors/AP/IB classes) after 9th grade. After 10th, she really pared down her EC activities (stopped doing school plays and dropped the dance team). So we are thinking that we’d need to explain that (esp given her good grades) in college apps?
D18 did a BFA in ballet. Her recommendations were from academic teachers. The audition (and arts supplement where necessary to get invited for audition) was the only important factor for admission to the ballet program. Academic admission was always handled separately. Merit aid was largely based on academics, the amount available based purely on artistic talent was very modest.
@chinx2 she doesn’t need a performing arts teacher recommendation. But it can help, if the recommendation will allude to depth of experience, talent, working with others, etc. etc. As I wrote, it can also be part of an arts supplement if talent and experience warrant one: with video, resume and LOR’s.
@Twoin18 the process for the BFA is different from that for the BA (as others have said). BA applications generally have no audition so a supplement or extra LOR may be appropriate.
I would ask the schools individually if they accept a LOR from outside of school.
It would be helpful for anyone involved to use the term “health” rather than “mental health.” It is up to your daughter what she herself reveals, but teachers and GC should just use the term “health.”
The fact that your daughter continued/continues to do good work academically is important. There is no need for excuses at all. Her academic performance alone proves she is able to overcome challenges, in the context of the GC mentioning the health challenges.
Do you feel confident that her mental illness is being managed well at this point? Your posts imply that she still has inconsistencies that affect her ability to do things.
This might not be a popular view…but in my opinion, your daughters mental health well being should be the top priority. College will be there…at any point.
It sounds like she has great successes but they are intermittent at times.
If your D’s health has waxed and waned, did it not do so in 11th grade as well? If so, then her chem teacher could speak to that as well.
I want to reiterate though,
Thinking back about some of my students I taught who were not academic superstars:
- Always helped newcomers, even if they didn’t know the language, and helped them to acclimate (showing them the restrooms, helping them to pronounce things, showing them where supplies were kept, inviting them to eat lunch at their table, etc.).
- Kind and helpful…literally went dumpster-diving with a peer who had accidentally thrown her retainer away at lunch to (successfully) find the retainer.
- Genuinely cheerful and helpful, doing less desirable tasks without being asked, just because.
Maybe you’re saying, that’s not the way my D would act. But here are some other examples, including from “average excellent” students who weren’t necessarily exceptional at any one thing:
-
Student who cared so much about her work that when her black marker ran out of ink at home, rather than finishing with another color, came to school early to request a teacher’s black marker so she could complete her assignment on time (family was financially constrained).
-
Student who lent a different or unique perspective to class discussions.
-
Student who showed a natural intellectual curiosity, either during class or after class and posed questions/pursued conversations that reflected that curiosity.
And there are so many other positive things that your D’s teachers may well have observed her doing. Your D doesn’t need to be the “best ever” or even “best in her year” to be able to get a good teacher recommendation. Almost all kids who apply to college need a teacher recommendation. Those students are not all going to be superlative in some way or other. But they get recommendations and, if they crafted a well-balanced list of schools, they end up with affordable admissions and go to college.
A teacher recommendation (and the various parts of a college application on the whole) is a glimpse at the student to let the college know that this is the kind of person they’d want to have on their campus. If a school only admitted extroverted leaders who show their “initiative” by starting clubs, then it’s going to have a big problem because there won’t be enough people who actually get stuff done, want to join others’ clubs, etc. Colleges want a diverse pool of students, not just with respect to race, ethnicity, religion, geography, etc, but also with respect to the kids personalities. They want the gregarious comedians but they also want the quiet contemplators of the world. They’re looking for all types.
Actually that’s been my D’s issue and a common characteristic of high achieving/gifted students with “hidden” disabilities - they often mask their struggles. Her Chem teacher had to fill out a teacher survey related to her disability and literally said that she didn’t see any problems at all. So I don’t think her teacher could speak to her ability to overcome difficulty just from observing her…that being said, D is likely going to mention her “health” struggles in her brag sheet when she asks for recs. And like you said, we will try to point out other strengths for her teacher to reference. It sounds like you would suggest asking the 11th grade Chem teacher. I appreciate your teacher perspective in this discussion.
I guess I wasn’t thinking we needed to provide excuses for her performance, but more for why the rigor of her classes and EC involvement changed when it was at such a high level before. Or do you mean we don’t even need to explain that she pulled back in those areas?
Thank you for saying this. I’ve read that it’s better from a scholarship standpoint to apply for college Senior year and then ask for a gap year, rather than take a gap year and apply…which is my main reason to at least try the college app process now. But we could decide tomorrow that it’s just too much. This is my struggle, bc I don’t where she’ll be a year from now, but I feel like we need to try to plan for that now.
It sounds like your D has made great progress but is still not fully recovered. I don’t think a rec from a 9th grade teacher is a great idea, unless she has maintained meaningful interaction with that teacher.
Your daughter has already put three years of high school behind her. She can’t change her transcript.
She hasn’t pursued the most rigorous courseload, which is absolutely fine. She should ensure she applies to colleges that are not expecting the highest rigor. I am sure her recommendations will be good for the types of colleges she can apply to based on her existing transcript.
A great rec is helpful, but it can’t create rigor. So in a way, it isn’t super important that she get a second amazing rec. I suggest she ask an 11th grade teacher who will “do no harm.” It’s very possible that a lot of the colleges she will apply to will only ask for one rec, in which case she can submit the one from the English teacher. Best of luck to her.
This might be true for specific scholarships at some schools. But it is not uniformly true. Applying as a first time freshman is the key at most colleges in terms of better scholarship potential.
My friend’s D got a nice scholarship but the school would not allow her hold it if she deferred. So you really need to research what each college allows.
ETA: meant to reply to the thread…sorry.
This is similar to our daughter’s experience. Her illness was not diagnosed correctly until later in Junior year. It’s proving very difficult to navigate this process with a kid who struggled so much (especially compared to our other 3 kids). I’d be happy to talk about how you’re handling this and what types of colleges she is applying to, what she is disclosing on her apps, and all the rest. Good luck, this is not easy!
This topic was automatically closed 180 days after the last reply. If you’d like to reply, please flag the thread for moderator attention.