Lewis and Clark vs. Eckerd

College Search & Selection
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<p>UF is rated by USNWR with UGa and Clemson, which is where UF should be.</p>

<p>To put things in perspective, UGa consistently outranks UF in common programs LAW, especially, and journalism, for example. UGa is consistently the highest ranked university in the country that lacks both an engineering school (Ga. Tech is Georgia’s public engineering school) and a medical school (Emory is one of several Georgia state-supported medical schools). Clemson is among the country’s most rapidly progressing national universities, and Clemson’s not even South Carolina’s principle institution.</p>

<p>UF is ranked below well Emory, Georgia Tech, Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina, Virginia, Vanderbilt, etc, as well it should be.</p>

<p>So, don’t go throwing USNWR stats at me.</p>

<p>When 10 percent of UF graduates get admitted to UF or superior law schools, two-thirds of UF graduates overall get admitted to graduate or professional programs, 10 percent of UF hard sciences graduates receive either MDs or PhDs within ten years of graduation, and five percent of UF graduates receive Fulbright scholarships, I’ll concede UF MAY prepare its students equally with New College of Florida. But since you and I both know none of those things will ever happen, I’d say your arguments fail on a motion for summary judgment.</p>

<p>NCF is a liberal institution. It is, after all, a “liberal arts college.” In fact, it is the honors college of the state university system, which includes UF.</p>

<p>I rest my case.</p>

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<p>Should be “Clemson’s not even South Carolina’s principal institution.”</p>

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<p>That is University of South Carolina is that state’s “flagship” university.</p>

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<p>Getting back to the original question, I think Lewis and Clark and Eckerd attract very different types of students. I would guess that L&C is more liberal than Eckerd. A friend in Florida characterized Eckerd as being a country club school, where the relatively wealthy in Florida send their kids as opposed to state schools (don’t know the validity of this). We toured Eckerd and the Florida windswept coastal appearance bothered my northern daughter, who prefers lush lawns and thinks she prefers snow (hasn’t spent enough time shoveling or scraping ice off her car), who thought the appearance at New College a little bit south was better. Although, if planning to major in marine biology, Eckerd would be first on the list.</p>

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<p>Really, I would think NCF would be first choice for marine biology because Pritzker Marine Research Center and Professor Sandra Gilchrist are better known nationally. [New</a> College of Florida - Division of Natural Sciences](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/pritzker]New”>Pritzker Marine Biology Research Center - New College of Florida)</p>

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<p>

Eckerd, Miami, FSU, and USF have the premier oceanography programs in Florida.</p>

<p>NCF is not known for marine science.</p>

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<p>Lewis & Clark College</p>

<p>Academics:
If you want to learn to think for yourself (and meet other people doing the same), try the beautiful environs of Lewis & Clark College in Portland, a school that “makes a community of its anti-community, and is proud of it.” The definitively liberal arts curriculum and “self-directed attitude” toward courses of study cultivate “critical thinking and social awareness,” and “even lectures tend to include discussions.” The academics here are what you make of them, and the course load “can be incredibly simple or very rigorous or challenging” depending on your choices.
The school has been placing “an increasing level of importance on multiculturalism and ethnicity,” which is reflected in its “wonderful study-abroad programs,” but the administration gets a few complaints from students who “don’t think that the administration is totally in sync with what the student body believes or wants.” The professors, by and large, “are wonderful.” They are passionate in both their teaching and their desire to shape students into independent thinkers, which “really shows in the critical feedback they give and the lengths they go to be accessible to students.” Says one familial freshman: “I feel like each one is an aunt or uncle.” Availability is not an issue for any aspect of the faculty or staff, as “personal appointments are very easy to get with practically anyone.” Facilities also get top marks for their environmental-friendliness and overall degree of pleasantness, as does the number of grants for students looking to do research (often with professors, for those looking to bulk up their grad school resume). Rising tuition costs (without corresponding financial aid) are a main concern at LC.</p>

<p>Student Body:
People here are generous and colorful with their adjectives when describing the gestalt of the student body, ranging from “an eclectic explosion of quirky intelligence, green green green, dreadlocks, vintage stores, hipsters” to “extremely atheist, wannabe hippies, that view clothing as optional and knowledge as power!” Perhaps this says it all-it’s a diverse group of individuals at LC (at least as far as personalities go, as the ethnic makeup is quite “vanilla”), with very few students not finding a way to fit in (they “either accept that everyone here is different, or transfer”). There’s also a large international and gay/lesbian student quotient. One student sums up the LC population: “As the Cheshire Cat said to Alice, ‘We’re all mad here.’” Everyone here is politically active and “open to new experiences and challenging assumptions, with a strong vein of idealism running throughout.” Students “constantly engage in academic discussion and debate outside of the classroom,” but this is more for rhetoric’s sake, as there is an “absence of unhealthily competitive attitudes” at Lewis & Clark.</p>

<p>Campus Life:
Those looking to get away for a few hours take a school-chartered shuttle to downtown Portland where bookstores, markets, and coffeeshops offer some respite. A lot of upperclassmen move off-campus, taking them out of “the LC Bubble,” and these apartments are where most parties occur on weekends, for those that are interested (and many here are not). “No frats means no one is exclusive. Every party is usually open to everyone!” says a student. Pot usage is pretty prevalent at Lewis & Clark, which leads to a lot of “evenings spent high out of your mind while watching YouTube videos.” The school provides plenty of sponsored events such as seminars and lectures, though these are usually attended by the underclassmen, and most people take advantage of their location and participate in trips with College Outdoors, such as “hikes on the Oregon coast, kayaking, snowshoeing, or rafting.” Between the school and the environment, activities are plentiful, and with such a friendly and “chill” student body, “one cannot get left behind at this school.”</p>

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<p>Eckerd College</p>

<p>Academics:
Florida’s Eckerd College may be small, but it only seems small “where it matters, like class size[s] and relationships with professors.” It also offers many “big-school opportunities that make it seem bigger than it is.” Among the school’s most distinguished offerings are an “amazing” marine science program-“if it’s not your passion,” students say, “it will eat you alive”-and a “great international relations program.” The latter benefits from a school-wide commitment to undergraduate international travel. One student writes: “International education is great. I spent last January (winter term) in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, and next semester I’ll be in Sweden on an exchange program.” Students tell us that academic programs other than the sciences and international relations “aren’t nearly as demanding, and professors don’t seem to expect as much out of the students.” As one student puts it, “There are two kinds of Eckerd students: Those with easy majors and those [who] watch everyone else party on Tuesdays and skip class to go the beach.” Eckerd offers “much flexibility for designing your own concentration or for independent studies” as well as many opportunities “to do research with your professors and advance in ways you couldn’t imagine at larger schools.” How accessible are professors here? “Pitchers with Professors”-“where students and professors can discuss class lectures or [have] general conversation over a pitcher of beer or a soda”-"is a common occurrence each month</p>

<p>Student Body:
The Eckerd student body includes “science majors (geeks, if you will)” along with “a small dosage of preppy students,” “a lot of surfers, sailors, and tanners,” “athletes,” “church people,” and “trustafarians.” Athletes “stick together within their groups,” and “the marine science majors sort of are a collective,” but students report that “it’s easy to make friends and know people in every group.” “Overall my friends are a varied crowd,” a junior declares. While Eckerd’s student body is “mostly white and from a middle- to upper-class background” this “is not a typical college,” especially by Florida standards. “Don’t expect sorority girls and football players,” students warn. It’s worth noting that Eckerd “is a very liberal campus, with many Democrats, hippies, marijuana, parties, pets, environmental concern, and a basic openness to new things. If you’re close-minded and don’t want to see others’ views, don’t come here.” </p>

<p>Campus Life:
“It’s Florida,” explains one student. “Life at school is laid-back.” The warm weather “definitely has an effect on the attitude of most people who live on campus.” Eckerd’s environs include various sports grounds, including beach volleyball courts and a private waterfront where students can take sailing and windsurfing classes. If that’s not enough, two gorgeous beaches are less than 10 minutes away, downtown Tampa is only a half-hour away, and Busch Gardens and Disney World are 45 and 90 minutes away, respectively. One student sums up, “the location is amazing. Waking up on the Tampa Bay each morning energizes you.” The only drawback is that “Eckerd is somewhat separated from St. Petersburg at large. It’s [on] the southern tip of the city and you’re really out of luck if you don’t have a car or don’t know someone who does, since mostly everything worth doing is far away.” On campus “The most random of events happen…We’ve got drum circles on the beach, Saturday Morning Market, Kappa Karnival, Pitchers with Professors, Saturday boat trips to Shell Island, Ybor City, and lots of other things to explore.”</p>

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<p>Wow, Pierre! Are you related to Fiske? That was an amazing amount of information. Thank you. </p>

<p>My son wanted marine science but has since decided to go into biology for undergrad. His sister who is in a doctorate program in biochemistry encouraged him to just take all the science and math you can, and do as much research as you can. He can have more options that way.</p>

<p>I have to say, as a parent, sounds like a lot of pot on campuses. How do kids keep up with grades?</p>

<p>Our son tries very hard to be apolitical. He enjoys everyone and is very emotionally calm. He wouldn’t enjoy long debates on the latest political events. He also wouldn’t enjoy a campus of closed minds. We lean left but he just leans against a tree and wonders about it’s growth pattern.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I should have referenced my source, that’s from the Princeton Review web site where I have an account.</p>

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<p>Sr’s Dad…you’re a funny guy. If you can’t see that UF and New College have very different functions, then you really shouldn’t be qualified to gain acceptance to either college. Your arguments are very much thin and untenable and show that you don’t have the ability to see how one can’t apply the same criteria to a college of ~800 students to one with 35,000 undergraduates and 50,000 students total. </p>

<p>By the way, UF is ranked ABOVE Clemson, South Carolina and Georgia and is on tied with Texas and Penn State in the latest ranking. But, it still is underrated.</p>

<p>O, and New college has such a great model, that the leaders ran the school so far into debt that they were ready to pack up and close the doors in the 1970’s. However, due to political wheeling and dealing, state of Florida came to it’s rescue and saved the college:</p>

<p>"By 1975 the college was $3.9 million in debt and on the brink of insolvency, and the University of South Florida (USF) expressed interest in buying the land and facilities of the near-bankrupt college in order to establish a branch campus for the Sarasota and Bradenton area. [11][12]</p>

<p>In an unusual agreement, the New College Board of Trustees agreed to hand over the school’s campus and other assets to the state, at the time valued at $8.5 million, in exchange for the state paying off its debts and agreeing to continue to operate the school as a separate unit within the University of South Florida, (USF). The agreement stated that New College was to receive the same funding, per-student, as other programs at USF".</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_College_of_Florida]New”>New College of Florida - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>“NCF is a liberal institution. It is, after all, a “liberal arts college.” In fact, it is the honors college of the state university system, which includes UF.”</p>

<p>No State or government funded institution should be that lop sided in my opinion. If the liberals in the school were true to their perceived virtues, they would be screaming for more diversity and demanding the school do whatever it takes-including lowering admissions standards to recruit more conservatives to campus. That’s neither here or there though.</p>

<p>You really should brush up on your language usage. The word “an” does not carry the same meaning as “the”.</p>

<p>New College is “AN” honors college in Florida- the honors liberal arts college. Each school also has it’s own honors college, and I’m not sure about the others, but every one of the UF honors students is more than qualified for New College- the median SAT for New College is 1330 and the MINIMUM score for UF’s Honors program is 1400, with no exceptions. O no, say it ain’t so, Joe- this means that the Honors college at UF is a lot harder to get into than Florida’s “liberal Arts Honor College”. Ah, the way it should be, considering UF is Florida’s Flagship college. If you want to compare graduates, the accurate comparison would be to compare UF’s honors college graduates to those of New College. Wanna bet the difference shrinks to nill when you do a fair comparison? In absolute terms, there are ~8-10 times more students with 1400 SAT at UF than the entire New College Student body, and each of them has MUCH more choice as to academic endeavors.</p>

<p>O, and these students who scoff at the education given by other Florida public universities seem to have no problem going to profs who were educated at these laughable institutions. In fact, most profs there come from “big 10” type schools with a smattering of Ivy and some UC’s and SUNY’s. Some, dare I say come from Florida public schools…yikes. All in all, the faculty backgrounds at new college are no more impressive than those at UF.</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/kim-anderson]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/kim-anderson)</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/sandra-l.-gilchrist]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/sandra-l.-gilchrist)</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/brooke-butler]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/brooke-butler)</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/pmckenzie]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/pmckenzie)</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/john-b.-morrill]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/john-b.-morrill)</p>

<p>[New</a> College of Florida - Faculty Profiles](<a href=“http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/leymis-j.-wilmott]New”>http://www.ncf.edu/campus-directory/faculty-profiles/leymis-j.-wilmott)</p>

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<p>Wow, Tomslawsky, you hate New College, we get it!</p>

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<p>Wow, SusanR64, you can’t read critically, I get it. The vitriol started and ended with Sr’s DAD. My posts use reason and logical comparisons. I guess when you agree with one side, it’s easy to interpret a counter argument as an attack?</p>

<p>By the way, Sr’s dad, you should check your rankings again</p>

<p>Florida- #47 (tie with Texas and Penn State)
South Carolina- 110</p>

<p>i guess this means I really hate South Carolina? Not unless they beat us in Football :)</p>

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<p>I don’t have a problem as long as you don’t hate Clemson :)</p>

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<p>TLawsky</p>

<p>I didn’t compare UF to USC but to UGa and Clemson, to which UF is more closely ranked than, say, really, really top southern schools such as Emory, Georgia Tech, Duke, Wake Forest, UVa, UNC, and Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>To put things in perspective, UF would be FOURTH among universities in North Carolina and barely, barely THIRD among them in Georgia.</p>

<p>You seem to have some irrational belief that UF is underrated. It is certainly not.</p>

<p>The Legislature of the state of Florida designated NCF “‘the’ honors college of Florida.” I didn’t do it. That’s despite only 4,000 living NCF alumni; UF has more freshmen every year.</p>

<p>For your information, UF’s honors college has a 2070 (not 1400) requirement with lots of exceptions. A 2070 places one in the top 10 percent at UF, but not quite the top 75 percent at NCF.</p>

<p>To boot, UF ranks consistently among the nation’s “party schools” and schools at which no one studies.</p>

<p>No one survives at NCF, no matter how bright, if one doesn’t study.</p>

<p>UF’s website is replete with references to the “Gordon Rule,” which prescribes minimum writing requirements for graduation from Florida state university system institutions. There is not a single reference to the “Gordon Rule” on NCF’s website (Google it if you don’t believe me), since it is impossible for an NCF student not to satisfy it in the ordinary course of NCF students’ education.</p>

<p>While UF students sit in auditoriums of 600 students to take basic undergraduate classes taught by graduate assistants whose English skills are limited, NCF students average ten students per class taught by native English-speaking professors with PhDs in their subject matter supported by peer teaching assistants.</p>

<p>UF has 27 students per professor; NCF less than ten students per professor.</p>

<p>And how many Fulbright Scholars did UF have?</p>

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<p>Should be the top 25 (not 75) percent at NCF.</p>

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<p>

I have no idea whether that was rhetorical, just as I have no idea why New College was inserted into this thread for no apparent reason, but both NCF and UF produced 5 Fulbrights last year.</p>

<p>Lewis & Clark produced 6.</p>

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<p>Nope! NCF produced eight Fulbrights, out of less than 800 students</p>

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<p>I suggested NCF as a better alternative to Eckerd, so I guess it’s my fault Tlawsky and I debated the relative merits of UF and NCF on this thread. I apologize to those who wished instead to see a comparison of Eckerd and L&C.</p>