<p>Wow. W&L is at the top of my D’s list. Speaking for myself, I wish I could take back every occasion that I over indulged as an undergraduate. Why do kids still need to drink to have a good time? Obviously the local cops are acting like the Gestapo, and that is sad. On the other hand, drinking underage is illegal, kids are dying of alcohol intoxication, and how many innocent people are killed by drunks behind the wheel?
As the parent of a prospective student, I wonder if the alcohol/party atmosphere at W&L is over the top. Can you be a non-drinker and still fit in? Nonetheless, forewarned is forearmed, and in the event my D is accepted and attends W&L, I will sure warn her about the Gestapo. It seems to me that the message is clear: If you are underage, don’t even think about drinking. I’m not sure I have a problem with this, even if the means are a bit extreme.</p>
<p>Oilipond</p>
<p>The “party scene” at W&L is active, but not over the top. They talk a good game but having had a child there and at UVA (my school), the party scene is not that different. It’s a typical college scene. W&L is too diffucult to have over the top parties all the time. The kids there have too much work. </p>
<p>My student at W&L did not drink and they had a good experience. They did not like the LexPo at all though for the reasons mentioned by several people in this thread. This was several years ago. </p>
<p>I understand all the it’s illegal and drunk drivers kill arguments. No one wants to get one of ‘those’ calls from the police. Sadly, this happens, but people this age drink on almost any campus except for a place like Brigham Young and other schools with very strict rules. Schools should be working to provide as safe an environment as possible but know that they can’t prevent everything, just like the police. From what I am reading on this thread, I don’t understand what the police in Lexington think they are accomplishing.</p>
<p>My W&L student was down at Duke and was blown away that under aged ‘Greek’ kids (their friends) were running around under a tent holding half gallons in full view of security during a party. They also used fake ID’s at the Durham bars. W&L and UVA kids risk being thrown out for that. </p>
<p>W&L goes out of its way to see that the students don’t drink and drive by providing sober ride vans on party evenings. They have endless alcohol and drug education requirements. Unless the school is sanctioning the behavior by the police, IT is not the problem. IF they are involved, that is another thing. The police are a problem no matter what.</p>
<p>As an outsider with a D very interested in W&L, this discussion is disturbing. It’s clear Puzzle78 had a bad experience with the police - maybe LexPo is overreaching, maybe not. Maybe the party scene needs more oversight. As a parent, it would be good to know. </p>
<p>It’s not clear, at least to me, that the chorus of complaining voices on this thread is really a chorus - Puzzle78, UnivPro, Generals, WL2006, Kevin2012 and wlgrad are very likely the same person writing under different screen names. Look at the writing style and the number of posts they have made (ok, this is my first, but that’s not relevant to my point).</p>
<p>This thread is feeding me more notification bumps than I anticipated or wanted. I may have to turn that off. </p>
<p>Hawley21, you are mistaken if that is what you think about the ID’s. I guess that most of the posters are the same gender, so there is some similarity from that. Pay attention to what is being said. Don’t speculate about the other things.</p>
<p>@hawley, I can only speak for myself, but this is my only account on this website. I made it because I wanted to respond to wlu102938’s first post and because I feel strongly about this. I would assume that others have few posts because they joined to answer this thread due to recent negative experiences with the LexPo (wlgrad’s story in particular comes to mind). </p>
<p>@Oilipond, absolutely people who don’t drink can still fit in at W&L. The school’s party scene is definitely active, but I would say not overactive–the workload simply doesn’t allow for it. Having visited friends at other schools, including state universities, I would say that the party scene is actually much safer than it is elsewhere due to precautions that the school takes such as Traveller. People who don’t drink can still have a good time, so long as they don’t have a problem with other people drinking.</p>
<p>Is this step up in LexPo enforcement part of a new effort? Is this a response to more drinking on campus or to the accident reported above?</p>
<p>I started this thread. I decided to continue receiving thread feeds so I can answer when I have information. </p>
<p>To Hawley, that is part of the responsibility of a thread starter even though the volume of posts is taking time for response. I have posted a lot because of the interest level.</p>
<p>To siliconvalleymom, our friends with the first year who was arrested tell us that the University is pretty quiet about what is happening. The parents have decided to tackle their issue personally. To them, that means that either the University is going along with it, or because LexPo is enforcing the letter of the law they cannot say much as a related party.</p>
<p>The level of drinking is not greater than it has been. Like most college students, W&Ls definitely drink, but they also talk about how much they drink as a matter of pride I guess. Thats beyond me. As several people have said the school is too hard to be drunk all the time and pass.</p>
<p>A number of people have brought up the accident last year with the injured students. I investigated what happened with a current senior we know. I was able to find out this much. The party had sober drivers taking students back to town from the party locale. The driver of the car, knowing that they had been drinking, got in their car and drove anyway taking the other students with them. The golden rule on campus is, drink? Take a bus or walk. The driver ignored it. Students were injured because of this stupid behavior. It appears the police have added walking and sober van riding to their probable cause enforcement efforts, so the screw is being turned everywhere I guess. The senior we spoke with corroborated the stepped up activities of the LexPo and is not happy about it</p>
<p>As I have said before the balance between reasonable policing and intrusiveness seems to have been crossed.</p>
<p>I had to register because this issue is one that strikes at the heart of the school. Believe that its a duplicate account if you want, I don’t really care. I just needed to post about this.</p>
<p>LexPo have been an abomination this year. There is a new police chief and he is doing everything in his power to crack down on any fun the college students are having. It is very ironic. The school keeps asking fraternities to move parties back on campus, and the cops seem to be doing everything in their power to push them out into the country. Guess who is going to win that battle? </p>
<p>County cops haven’t been great, but they havent been terrible. But if everything is moved into the county they may start getting upset. What happens then? Parties move off the Traveller bus routes. That is a very dangerous development. Fraternities do use houses off the bus routes, but sparingly. If that is the only place you can throw a party, however, that is what is going to happen. We are not going to not throw parties. They are essential for both fraternity and sorority rush and essential for meeting people around the school. </p>
<p>If this keeps up, I would have a hard time recommending this school to a high school senior. If the parties are in town, you risk an arrest record. If the parties are out of town, you risk an accident. We pride ourselves at w&l for being smart and social, but something has got to give.</p>
<p>wlu2015, you have been here for two weeks and have never seen the inner workings of a fraternity. These are real issues that must be hashed out by brothers, blowing them off is nonsense.</p>
<p>Hawley 21, I am not the same person as the others you list. I just joind CC and noticed the comments on W&L. I read the posts. I am not an English teacher but the writing is different from person to person. A couple of writers look like college students. A couple look older like me. There are some older people posing as first year’s I think.</p>
<p>wlu2015, you write like you work for the admissions department. Students new to college don’t phrase things the way you have.</p>
<p>wlu2013, I researched the police chief. He is new to the job but this is not his first school year. It looks like he started in early 2010. Maybe he wanted to see a complete school year before he started.</p>
<p>One thing seems clear no matter who wrote it. A couple of the posts try to say no aggressive policing is going on but no one is credibly denying the more flagrant incidents. I believe they are happening. Students be careful and if you don’t want trouble don’t drink and wander around Lexington, especially if you are underage. Something that seems small like a minor in possession or drunk in public can have bad consequences later.</p>
<p>I’m definitely not the admissions department. All I was really trying to say is that we should keep in mind that this is the season that a lot of high school seniors begin to make up their minds, and we should be mindful this is a site read by a lot of prospective students. I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s experiences. I was just saying that since everyone keeps saying this year has been out of the ordinary, and if things were to go back to normal we would feel dumb for discouraging students from applying to a school that they might love over an issue that will hopefully be less of an issue when they get here. </p>
<p>You may not think that future students reading this should matter to a first year student, which would definitely suggest I’m not who I say I am, but I had a personal experience of almost not committing early decision to the school because of things that were written on CC and I’m just trying to help future students. </p>
<p>@UnivPro, I’m a little flattered that you don’t think I write like college first year, but this school is sorta hard to get into so I’d say a lot of us write real’ good. </p>
<p>I’d also like to say I understand where wlu2013 is coming from on the fraternity level. It would certainly be difficult to get to know guys and start figuring out who to invite to stuff and hopefully eventually rush when you can’t get them to your events because they are afraid of being arrested. Greek life was a major draw for me and I hate to see anything detract from the system, especially police action. Trust me, I wasn’t advocating blowing this matter off, just not using it to influence prospectives prematurely. </p>
<p>Like I said, this really needs to get fixed. I hope to apply to med school in three years, I know an odd thing for someone in the admissions department to say, but I don’t need a Drinking Underage, or a Drunk in Public on my record. I’m as frustrated as everyone else, its just a matter of the language we use to express our frustration and how they can affect prospectives. There is a fine line between expressing outrage and fear mongering.</p>
<p>What if the situation with the police does not change? The website says Lexington is 2.75 square miles. How many patrol officers does Lexington have? 20 to 24? The small patrol area, the attitude of the police force and the number of officers probably cause the heavy-handed policing. </p>
<p>You cant cocoon yourself on campus. Anyway, the Greek houses are on campus but that does not seem to stop the police this year.</p>
<p>Lexington is a safe town. Crime statistics show that on the police web site. Bothering students can fill time. It raises city income through fines. The schools have no control over the police. As someone said on this thread, legally they cannot argue against enforcement. The only issue they can use is how much financial impact they have on the community. Maybe they will use that.</p>
<p>I talked to my UVA graduate and they said the police in Charlottesville seem to balance police presence and enforcement. The students there do not mistrust police like W&L students do. Activities that get you stopped, ticketed or arrested in Lexington like carrying an open container, walking to a dormitory late at night, being at a party in town and dropping a drink when you see the police and such dont cause the police to act unless there is something going wrong. </p>
<p>My W&L graduate was stopped many times walking around town late at night after they were 21. It was after a party sometimes and sometimes they were just walking home from a friends house. They were not arrested or ticketed but why were they stopped when they were not doing anything wrong? Why do the police feel they need to do this? It sounds like something that happens in North Korea. </p>
<p>Why does it look like you work for the admissions department? Here are a couple of samples which look like professional talking points. You should write material for them if you do not already.</p>
<p>“As a freshman I’ve only been here for short time, but I have already had many enriching experiences and created valuable relationships.” This could be in a brochure or video.</p>
<p>“If you are a high school student with the type of talent and academic achievement to make a school as selective as W&L a possibility for you, then please come visit us here in Lexington. Don’t trust CC, it almost turned me away from the school. My visit changed everything for me. You cannot understand things like the Honor System, the Speaking Tradition, or other quintessential parts of the Washington and Lee experience third hand. In fact some of them seem scary until you speak to people who live them out everyday, and ask them how they feel about it. Come speak to real students, stay with a real student, meet real faculty.” This could be in a brochure or video. I agree campus visits are helpful.</p>
<p>Even as a UVA grad I admit W&L is a very good school but something has to make the total experience better. People have complained about the Lexington police for years. Now would be a good time to fix what is going wrong. The students should not fear them.</p>
<p>I have looked at CC comments for years without saying anything. I agree with you some are not helpful and can be baseless or simple gossip. Some are useful. They help give a view past the packaged glossy images all colleges want to project and help you know what you will be paying for and if that is what you want.</p>
<p>
Actually they can … if the police are using selective enforcement against W&L students the police can be at fault even if they are upholding laws … it is not OK to pick a subset of the population to strictly enforce laws … so if the police are following the same tactics across town then the students/school have no argument … however, if the school is targeting students more than other residents a case can be made.</p>
<p>PS - I live with a mile of both BU and BC and the non-student residents are typically overwhelmingly for a very heavy handed police presence with the students … partying students have in the past caused HUGE issues in the neighborhoods … however I’ve never heard of the police presence here extending onto campus unless something big happens.</p>
<p>@univpro
“Anyway, the Greek houses are on campus but that does not seem to stop the police this year.”</p>
<p>The greek houses are all technically on campus in that they are owned by the school but only the sorority houses and sort of chi psi’s house are physically in the W&L campus. Some of them are very very close, the ones across from red square, but others are in Davidson Park which I would approximate is a mile down the road. </p>
<p>Just something to keep in mind in the debate.</p>
<p>Like I said, I’m completely on board with the fact that the Lexington Police’s actions are completely unacceptable. Someone in the school paper recently mentioned a class action law suit as being the only solution. Might be something to look into.</p>
<p>3togo. </p>
<p>Someone would have to find out whether they do the same thing to the local underage residents or VMI students. If they did not treat them the same way before they will now. I am sure someone in the PD is reading this.</p>
<p>I understand how residents in the Brookline area and that around Boston University might feel. Those are much more densely populated areas than Lexington. Young people can be obnoxious especially if they have been drinking too much. The student populations are much bigger too so there are more of them to bother the residents.</p>
<p>wlu2015</p>
<p>While the Greek houses are not directly on the main campus if they are owned by the school they are part of the campus even if they are separate. Police should not be entering those buildings. That is why the University has its own police force. If the LexPo are doing that they have to have a very good reason. How would they adjust if the chief said to stay back? They could wait on the sidewalk or on the streets around them. Those are public areas. It is almost the same as being on the property. What they do to the students when they move from one part of campus to another is the center of the problem along with coming back from off campus parties.</p>
<p>The lawsuit is an interesting idea. It will be expensive unless there is a student who has gotten in trouble with a litigation attorney as a parent. </p>
<p>I would arrange a boycott of the Lexington merchants and buy whatever you need or eat out in county locations. They cannot be far away since the town is so small. The local merchants might complain to the city council and police.</p>
<p>It seems that things are out of control. The fact that so many young people will have a police record is not good. </p>
<p>Over the past year W&L has had some misfortune or something is drastically wrong. For example, a W&L undergraduate gets three years in prison for drugs, a football player is charged with distributing on campus, a post party car accident seriously injures two students, and now a rash of arrests this September.</p>
<p>I suggest that people focus on getting the school cleaned up. The administration is clearly out to lunch.</p>
<p>WLU1995</p>
<p>The more I read the more shocked I become. This is not at all the place I was told it was. Sounds like a depressing police state. Has it just gone this direction recently? Sounds like a nightmare place to go to school. Police arresting anyone on the street.</p>
<p>Don’t think I have heard of any school with this many problems. It sounds like a very confusing and dangerous place</p>
<p>Man this place really sucks.</p>
<p>Way too much drama and distress for what this place delivers.</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to go here?</p>
<p>As I previously mentioned, this thread has been misleading from the beginning. However, it did contain a grain of truth, that many upperclassmen I met felt that policing during the beginning of the year was much more strict than in previous years. As a freshman I cannot comment on that, however I can say that I haven’t seen the police around in the past few months nearly as much as they were at the beginning of the year. Furthermore, no one has been even discussing them recently. Some of my friends who were arrested have told me that their record will be wiped clean as long as they do not get in any further trouble after a probationary period. So to conclude this entire thread, I would like to say that the police are currently not behaving in a way that should influence anyone’s college decision, and I am saying that as a very social student. </p>
<p>Orcaaa, just quit it. U.S News and World Report has us as the 12th best liberal arts school in the country, there is a great deal of upside to going here. And no, going here is not risking a criminal record anymore than going anywhere else at this point.</p>