<p>We have good friends who just sent their daughter to Washington & Lee as a first year (freshman for those who dont know the current terminology on campuses). Lexington is a pretty quiet little town so the police there do not have much to do except when students from both colleges there (W&L and VMI) are on campus. When students are in town, the police there act like they run a police state. </p>
<p>School starts later this week, but the first years and many upper-class students are on campus for Orientation. There have been some parties over the weekend. The police have been extremely aggressive to the point of going into private homes unannounced and breathalizing kids, and arresting or citing underage students who are caught with alcohol in their possession, OR in their bloodstream. Our friends daughter was arrested (she was NOT drunk merely had some alcohol in her blood). Several kids have been hauled away in handcuffs. The police even pulled over a University run sober driver van which takes students from parties back to dormitories. They checked its occupants for alcohol and arrested one for minor in possession. </p>
<p>The law is the law, but on the other hand college aged kids drink. You would have to arrest probably 80% of first years and sophomores on most campuses if the letter of the law was being followed. That is impractical. </p>
<p>The University seems to try to help model responsible behavior with things like the van system. Unfortunately, the Lexington police operate like the secret police in a dictatorship. I dont know whether the University has encouraged this particular police crackdown or not, but I would be very careful before I sent my children into an environment in which the police are bullies masquerading as protectors.</p>
<p>The first weekend campus parties are the perfect time for police to put students on notice about alcohol consumption. It is likely that most of the students took notice of this police action with the result that ultimately, behavior will be somewhat changed, and lives will be saved.</p>
<p>Yes, the kids were breaking the law by drinking, but the police must also follow the law as to reasonable cause for stopping and questioning a person. From what I have seen, this is not always the case in Lexington.</p>
<p>Your rose-colored glasses view means police measures might, possibly, in some peripheral way save a life. I would not bet a large amount that they would with this many kids to police. More than likely they will create more resentment among the students in Lexington because of the heavy-handed (and legally questionable) tactics they are using. In my experience, young people do not really pay much attention to this kind of aggressive pressure. They simply get sneakier with their activities, a more dangerous result. In other words, if you are going to arrest me in the living room of a friend’s because I am holding a beer I’ll pre-game on my own, show up loaded and run down to the basement and hide if you arrive. That kind of underground behavior is REALLY dangerous. A reasonable approach which encouraged responsible behavior probably would be more effective. In other words, we are paying attention so behave would probably work better than we are going to run around trying to dig up trouble (which they are).</p>
<p>I am a current freshmen at Washington and Lee University, and it is very unfortunate that your friend’s daughter was recently arrested at a party here. However, I must clear up a few things. First, students here at W&L do not regard the police as bullies nor do we feel oppresed by their decisions. Everyone knows that the police will try to crack down the first week of school, because after the first week, parties move to campus-owned Fraternities, which are not the police’s jurisdiction. Second, I have been present at almost all of the parties where people have been arrested, and I have seen first-hand what kind of behaviors they target. For example, Virginia’s open-container law, which pretty much means don’t have a beer can on the sidewalk or in someones front lawn where everyone can see. Also, public displays of drunkenness, which means don’t walk home alone, and don’t stumble around and fall over. These are really all the police will arrest you for. Both me and all of my friends do not fear the police because they are only looking for those few things, which are really easy to avoid. If you came to one of our parties, you all would realize how much the police does put up with, and it is surprisingly a lot. Finally, the easiest thing to do is: if police are patrolling the party, leave and go to one of the other twenty that are going on. Its really that simple. Here at W&L, we party like crazy people, and a few unlucky or stupid people occasionally get in trouble, and thats it. Hope this was somewhat helpful!</p>
<p>WLU102938. My friend’s daughter was INSIDE a private home. The police came into the home unannounced. That action was questionable from a legal standpoint. They asked her how old she was. She told them (the Honor System in place). They asked her if she had been drinking. She said yes (Honor System again). They breathalized her and it blew something like .03. I would call that a beer or so. They arrested her. I know they arrest obviously drunk or disorderly students too.</p>
<p>IF you are indeed a first year there how could you know the “school parties like crazy?” You have been there just a few days. You were on the stopped sober driver bus and were breathalized, and the party outside of town on the river, and the one in town one as well? You cant be everywhere at once. Other parents I know who have students there all have commented about how heavy-handed the police are, and they are surprised. </p>
<p>After the school year begins, parties continue at Greek houses and other locations so the problem will still be in place if the police continue to act this way. Arrests not only can appear on police records, but also can get the student in trouble with the school. The school and police need to do a better job of working together to promote REAL safety, not a police state. </p>
<p>Check your grammar before posting. You want to reflect well on the school.</p>
<p>WLU102938
After one week on campus, you really know what is going on. Give me a break.</p>
<p>While I do not know first hand, it is my understanding that 50-60 students were arrested. Most for underage drinking. They had no more room in jail, so they just started ticketing people. On their first weekend, there are now 50+ students who have to get a lawyer ($1,500) and will have a misdemeanor conviction on their record. There must be a better way. I wonder how many VMI students were arrested.</p>
<p>Thanks all for the criticism, I was merely trying to give my opinion on the matter, whether I am right or completely wrong is up to you. Just one last point: the law is the law. No matter how evil or oppressive the police may be, drinking underage is always illegal, and you can not defend getting in troubly completely with blaming the police. Also, if you hate the oppressive Lexington Police, or can’t handle their rules, don’t go to W&L. Go somewhere else.</p>
<p>Your opinion is fine but it is just that, an opinion. Once you have spent more time in Lexington you will find that most students there have no great love for the local police and their tactics. </p>
<p>The older one gets, the less one sees the world through a black and white prism. Yes, drinking underage is illegal… so is speeding, making an illegal U-turn, running a red light, a waiter not reporting all tips, paying a housekeeper without withholding taxes, hiring an illegal alien, taking a grape from a bunch at the supermarket to “taste,” and on and on. You may not have done any of the preceding, but the odds are you have. Several of these can cause injury or death, just as underage (or legal) drinking when out of hand. The goal should be to encourage responsibility. You don’t do that through fear. Fear only has an effect for a while, look at what is going on in the Middle East as an example of that. Yes, we don’t know what will happen there downstream, but the changes have mostly come about as an effort to replace fear with hope. I am in favor of responsibility, not black and white judgement.</p>
<p>parent of a senior at W&L, never heard of anything like this before, it is certainly concerning that they entered a home. I’m not trying to minimize the issue, but I wonder if there was a complaint that brought them there. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, I am with you, and certainly understand feeling upset that kids were arrested. I agree that there are better approaches. I know that bc there is not much to do in Lexington, much of the socializing centers around drinking, which is a problem imho. I’ve heard kids being taken to hospitals for alcohol poisoning with some regularity. I’ve also heard from my d that many kids are out of control with drinking regularly.<br>
I wonder what has occurred to have the police take this approach. I know that it was Lexington police who arrested the UVA student (who ultimately killed his girlfriend) while he was visiting/partying at a W&L party last year. Wonder if this has fueled this thinking.</p>
<p>I am a current Junior at W&L, and I just wish to respectfully contradict a couple things you have said. First, I have to say that the LexPo crackdown during O-Week was the worst I have seen in my three years here; they have gotten stricter and stricter every year, but this year by far takes the cake. And I consider the police to have at times been bullies in the last week. One of my friends spent the night in jail for simply walking by himself with alcohol in his system, not stumbling, and the cop admitted that it was merely the fact that he was alone that the officer stopped and breathalyzed him. In another case, the LexPo surrounded a house that was having a party and wouldn’t let anyone leave the property without being breathalyzed and arrested, not even to get on Traveller (though a Traveller representative eventually got them to allow the students to leave and directly go onto the bus after about an hour). I heard but don’t have confirmation that the same thing happened at a different house as well. Twenty-one year olds on private property have also been arrested and charged with drunk in public for just dropping their cups when they see the police. That’s around the time that I think they’re not as interested in people’s safety as much as arresting as many people as possible. Yes, some of the behaviors that have gotten people arrested have been outrageous, but that happens every year; it is the dozens of additional arrests for much, much more minor things that has people talking. </p>
<p>Secondly, you are right in that once classes start parties move into fraternity houses, but incorrect in your belief that this means that they replace parties off-campus. The rules imposed by the university make it much more difficult to have parties in frat houses (jumping through hoops to get registered, getting security, no kegs or hard alcohol, etc.) so much so as to make parties in frat houses relatively rare, only a couple to a few times a term per frat. On all other weekends, the frats have their parties off-campus as in O-Week, and often times they even do it the same nights as parties in the frat houses (they will hold a mixer with a sorority at an off-campus house, and then use sober rides to get everyone to the House before the party opens). </p>
<p>As for your rather black-and-white interpretation of current laws, you should consider whether something is malum in se as opposed to malum prohibitum: a bad act in itself, or considered bad merely because the law says so. Drinking alcohol before the age of 21 isn’t inherently bad, as evidenced by the fact that nearly every country in the world has lower drinking ages than the United States. Even in the US, as recently as the mid-1980s it wasn’t all that uncommon for 18 or 19 year old to be able to legally drink (depending on state laws). Our very own President Ruscio has signed the Amethyst Initiative, which aims to reopen the discussion on lowering the drinking age. And at a school like W&L, the police aren’t going to stop underage drinking, but drive it underground where it gets exponentially more dangerous. </p>
<p>I graduated from W&L 6 years ago in 2005. My wife, though, has never before seen the campus, so I scheduled a stop there for us on our way to a friend’s wedding. Although her birthday was not until the weekend, we didn’t want to take away from the wedding, so we thought we’d just have small celebration in Lexington. So, we had a drink at the palms and a bottle of wine with dinner at the Bistro. It was a little late, but we had to leave early in the morning to make the wedding, so I took her for a quick stroll around the campus. On our way back to our hotel, the Sheridan-Livery, we were approached by 2 cops that said they saw my wife stumble - she did no such thing. This is on Main St., less than half a block away from our hotel. I explained to them that we were not students, but rather we are married and I’m just showing my wife where I went to school and that we could literally see our hotel room widow from where we stood. The cops dismissed all of this, shoved breathalyzers into our faces and, when we refused the test, they placed us in handcuffs and took us to jail. While we had had drinks that evening, we were not drunk. We did not stumble. We were basically apprehended off the street for no reason and detained until noon the next day. So, we called a lawyer who said that, in court, it’s basically the cop’s word against ours and that we have little chance at beating this.</p>
<p>I am a professor and my wife is a doctor. This has dire consequences for our careers, and we did absolutely nothing wrong to either the town nor any of the residents. We were treated like criminals and presumed to be guilty of something from the outset. </p>
<p>While I love the friends I made at W&L and will admit that the surroundings are pretty, I will never recommend this school to another. In fact, I will have to warn anyone thinking of sending their child there that they are literally playing roulette with their child’s criminal record, and that they should probably go elsewhere to develop their critical-thinking skills. The overzealous and underproductive police force has become a liability to the students rather than an asset to the community.</p>
<p>Six W&L students were involved in a serious car accident last December, after leaving one of these parties. Two received life-threatening injuries. One of those two may never walk again, the other still has made a miraculous recovery but still faces months, maybe years of physical challenges. Another, the drunk driver, now has a record. For years, the police have looked the other way. The W&L community protects their own, and they do it well.</p>
<p>The partying at W&L has been out of hand in the past. Higher standards should prevail. Students intelligent enough to attend here should not find themselves in the situation those six students did. Perhaps the Lexington police (and W&L administration) have received pressure from parents to keep their children safe, instead of just keeping them out of trouble. </p>
<p>No one should be discouraged from attending W&L just because of the recent crack-down by the LexPo. While it might be annoying, the police usually only target the obviously drunk and the stupid (i.e. do not walk alone).<br>
As previously mentioned in this thread, there was an alcohol related accident last year involving five students, a number of whom were seriously injured. So, the recent enforcement of the law may not be unwarranted.
There is much more to the university than the frat parties during the evenings. Do not let the police, who play such a minor role overall in the Lexington experience, dissuade one from looking at W&L.</p>
<p>I have known the school and town for 6 decades now. I have a couple of degrees from W&L and had a child graduate recently (I am a late bloomer). When I was there, the police were a bother, but they did not harass. It was fine. I can say with certainty that while the students still have fun, sometimes too much, it is MUCH quieter than decades ago when things got out of hand regularly. The era had something to do with it. That was when hard liquor and wine were illegal until 21, but 3.2 beer was ok at 18. The students completely disregarded the 21 rules and some amazingly stupid things happened which I will not mention. From watching it in the intervening period, the student quality is better, the school environment is quieter, but the police are worse and much more intrusive.</p>
<p>I have direct experience with MIPS too. My child had a “minor in possession” walking from one house to another next door after exams were over one semester. They were almost 21, 2 months shy, and not a boozer. They also happened to be a very fine student with excellent graduate boards. I am also reasonably certain that the MIP kept them from a couple programs for which they were extremely well-qualified. They had to tell whether they had ever been arrested on their applications. Rather than chalking it up to inexperience and skipping over their misdemeanor, the Honor System ruled and they answered yes and had to explain. Highly competitive grad schools are no different than many organizations and when they have two applications that are mostly the same, they look for reasons to say no. So, it can have a negative impact as the 06 graduate noted earlier.</p>
<p>Yes, tragic things happen to students at this age. As a parent, you spend a lot of time worrying about it when they go off to college and hope they return home safely. The accident that occurred last year was tragic, but thankfully, no one was killed. I dont advocate illegal behavior, but also know it happens. The police cannot stop all of it, and in the case of Lexington, it will simply drive stupid behavior underground. I am just in favor of watching and acting when needed, not harassing, which can have other negative impacts. The fever pitch the Lexington police operate at would make me cautious about sending another child there unless I was certain they were going to be perfectly behaved at all times. Since I am imperfect, I would have to weigh the risks (Lexington police actions) and the benefits (very nice school) before deciding.</p>
<p>Washington and Lee is a great place. An amazing place even. As a freshman I’ve only been here for short time, but I have already had many enriching experiences and created valuable relationships. Which is why I become understandably upset on behalf of any current high school juniors and seniors who have to read comments like this:</p>
<p>“I would be very careful before I sent my children into an environment in which the police are bullies masquerading as protectors.”</p>
<p>Which is why my comment is for prospective students, as a current student I have better things to do then argue with faceless people who may or may not even have the relationships to the school that they claim. I have no interest in having a discussion with someone-who claims to have a friend-who supposedly has a daughter who goes here-who claims to have been arrested illegally (nice firsthand information!). </p>
<p>If you are a high school student with the type of talent and academic achievement to make a school as selective as W&L a possibility for you, then please come visit us here in Lexington. Don’t trust CC, it almost turned me away from the school. My visit changed everything for me. You cannot understand things like the Honor System, the Speaking Tradition, or other quintessential parts of the Washington and Lee experience third hand. In fact some of them seem scary until you speak to people who live them out everyday, and ask them how they feel about it. Come speak to real students, stay with a real student, meet real faculty. You deserve a better look at the school then a thread like this gives, and the school deserves better as well. If the police are a serious concern, and perhaps they should be, then come ask about it! So far I haven’t met a student, even some of the ones who were arrested, who wish they would have gone somewhere else because of the police. My personal opinion of the lexington police is very very low, but so is my opinion of some of the actions of students who have gotten in trouble with them. Most of people I have spoken to either were so drunk they can’t even remember having been arrested, or did things like throwing a beer at a cop (dumb) or running from a cop (dumber). I had a cop talk to me yesterday as I left a party. It was very scary but he just asked where we were going, we said back to the dorms, and he said to be safe. Doesn’t seem like a secret police to me…not that I approve of the fact that he was standing on the lawn outside a frat in the first place.</p>
<p>You make a lot of assumptions, many of which are simply wrong. Read the post just prior to yours so you get a better idea of how much I know about W&L and Lexington, far more than a first year who has been there 2 weeks. Actually you should read them all for perpsective. The school can be wonderful but in a small town, the complete environment matters. The balance has to be better than it is currently. It can have negative consequences. And yes, our friend is furious that their daugher was arrested. Honor system you know.</p>
<p>This is one of the many reasons why my son did want to apply to Washington and Lee. It’s inescapable to conclude that this excessive policing mentality exists and thus makes it a risky choice for many students, despite the tons of mail W&L sends out to juniors and rising seniors each year.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting fact that came up at the Greek Summit: at any given moment, there are more police officers on duty in the City of Lexington than there are in the entirety of Rockbridge County. The County is 600 square miles and has almost four times the population of Lexington (the independent cities of Lexington and Buena Vista aren’t included in either figure). Which I think begs the question: why does a sleepy, rural mountain town need so many officers? Especially considering that of the two colleges in the town, one is a military school with a very strict honor code, and the other has one of the most rigorous honor systems in the nation.</p>
<p>This weekend, two parties in fraternity houses were shut down by the Lexington Police due to “noise violations.” This is ridiculous. In order to have parties in fraternity houses, you need to not only register it with the school (and comply with the plethora of rules that come with that) but also obtain a noise permit from the city. Both of these parties were shut down before those permits would have expired. At the Greek Summit, one of the topics was “Moving Parties Back Onto Campus.” What is the incentive to do this if the Lexington Police will shut it down all the same?</p>
<p>I have heard talk among the fraternities that if the Lexington Police continue the level of harassment that they have thus far, they will start moving parties ten or fifteen minutes into the country (outside of Lexington). That is perhaps the most dangerous thing that could happen; the collision last year that was brought up before happened coming back from a party roughly that distance from Lexington.</p>
<p>The posters in this thread arguing against the police in Lexington absolutely have the correct idea. LexPo is a self-serving abomination on the community. They make so much money off of issuing ******** tickets and arrests that it is unlikely they will ever stop.</p>
<p>I am a 2010 alumnus and attended a party at my old fraternity this past weekend. Usually we run this party until about 2-3 am, at which time campus security will come around and tell us to shut it off. We have never had any trouble with the cops and they have been downright helpful whenever someone has gotten out of control and violent. I know exactly how things have been in the past because I have helped run this party at least three dozen times.</p>
<p>This time was very different. Campus security showed up like always but there were cops <em>crawling</em> all around the building. I have never seen anything like it. They were waiting outside for absolutely anything and everything that could happen. Luckily campus security stepped up and moved closer to the building to be the first line of defense between the cops and the students, but it was intimidating and entirely unnecessary.</p>
<p>I was given an open container citation this weekend for having a bottle of vodka near me on the front porch. I am of age, this is private property, but I was handed the ticket anyway for being in “public view”. Practically everywhere can be in public view if you want to twist the law that way, including being inside your home near a window. I cannot imagine what little minds I must have shattered by being in possession of a bottle of alcohol on my fraternity’s porch at 1:30am, but THANK GOD the cops were there to keep the peace!</p>
<p>What a joke. I spent nearly an hour and a half arguing with the cop and thanking them for solving every other crime in the city so they could now focus on people who are of age drinking legally purchased alcohol on private property. Nothing seems to get in the way in their lust for cash.</p>