Liberal agnostic at a California Catholic college?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Could a liberal agnostic student with an intellectual bent be happy at Santa Clara University, Loyola Marymount University, University of San Diego, or University of San Francisco? </p>

<p>Here's why I'm asking:</p>

<p>My daughter is a junior who is just starting the college search process. She is an earnest, politically liberal kid with intellectual interests who enjoys robust discussion on academic topics. She's not into partying, but she likes to have fun and enjoys outdoor activities (hiking, surfing, water sports). She wants to stay fairly close to home, and is thus limiting her search to California schools.</p>

<p>She doesn't have the stats for Stanford or Pomona, but she has good grades in honors and AP classes and, based on PSAT and practice tests, should have solid SAT scores.</p>

<p>We're looking at USC and UCs, but I'm afraid that she'll be disappointed in the huge 100-200 lecture classes that seem to dominate the first couple of years at the larger schools. She blossoms in her discussion-based classes where her teachers are intellectually engaging and enjoys analytic writing. USC's Thematic Option honors program would be perfect, but she probably doesn't quite have the stats to be admitted to TO.</p>

<p>We're also looking at Occidental, Scripps and Pitzer, but she feels they might be too small (and with respect to Scripps, she's not really sold on a women's college). </p>

<p>I've encouraged her to think about Santa Clara University, Loyola Marymount, University of San Diego and (to a lesser extent because I know almost nothing about it) University of San Francisco, but she is concerned that, as an agnostic liberal, she won't find others who share her views (pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etc.) She's actually interested in religion -- and has even thought about majoring in comparative religions -- but she is concerned that a Catholic school would not foster robust debate or discussion on religion, ethics or values, but would instead want the discussions to mirror Catholic views. </p>

<p>I know that Jesuits are actually known for fostering intellectual debate and for being quite liberal. Is that true at the Catholic schools in California? Would a liberal agnostic feel out of place, or would she be likely to find others who share her views?</p>

<p>Could she also find a community of other serious, intellectually oriented students at those schools?</p>

<p>Finally, are some of the schools I mentioned more or less liberal or conservative than the others? Are the students in the humanities or social science majors more or less intellectually inclined than their counterparts at other California schools (say, USC or UCLA)?</p>

<p>(Note: Just for a little perspective: Although she "self-identifies" as liberal, she's a clean-cut Democrat-who-recycles kind of kid, as opposed to a protesting on the streets, or extremely artsy kid. She'd probably be considered moderate to conservative at Vassar or Sarah Lawrence.)</p>

<p>Any thoughts would be welcomed!</p>

2

<p>Why not ask this on the SCU sub-forum? There have been several threads over the past 6 months with people asking this same question.</p>

<p>In brief, the students at SCU cover the entire range of political beliefs. Many professors there are also very liberal as well. Overall, my impression has been that no one (students or professors) seems to get uptight about liberal beliefs or politics. I know students at SCU who are part of Occupy Oakland movement and other students who are very conservative–and it just isn’t a big deal either way. (My daughter is a current student.)</p>

3

<p>Though I don’t have experience with Santa Clara, I know that my friend who went to Saint Mary’s College of California is really happy with the religious diversity there. She said there are plenty of atheists and agnostics along with buddhists, Christians, etc.</p>

4

<p>Univ. of San Diego would be the perfect place for a liberal agnostic, IMO. </p>

<p>As a conservative Christian who’s spent a lot of time on the campus of USD, I would call it a liberal, secular Catholic university, so it might fit the bill very well.</p>

<p>It’s a gorgeous campus and there are some very nice people there. I am most familiar with the music department, though. I met a math professor there who seemed really nice, too.</p>

5

<p>“Could she also find a community of other serious, intellectually oriented students at those schools?”</p>

<p>Are you kidding? Yes.</p>

6

<p>In terms of NoCal, I think she’d be fine at either USF or Santa Clara. Both are very liberal. It really depends whether you want to be near Silicon Valley or SF. </p>

<p>You should also check out University of Redlands, and a bit farther afield, University of Puget Sound and Lewis and Clark.</p>

7

<p>In answer to your question: I sure hope so, 'cuz that’s my daughter and those are the schools she’s looking at!!</p>

<p>The key for us was the size— not too small, but not huge. Catholic schools seem to fit that bill on the west coast. My D looked at and loved USD, SCU, Gonzaga. She didn’t like USF only because an urban campus is not for her. She also like UPS but it’s a bit too small. </p>

<p>So we are currently in decision mode, mostly between USD (currently #1), GU and UPS. I got the feeling at any of those schools (UPS is not a Catholic school but a ?Lutheran one?), someone who is not only not Catholic but not religious and not conservative would be okay. USD is a little preppy, but my liberal Democrat IB girl is a little preppy. </p>

<p>Look at L&C— more quirky/hippie (which my D did not like but it’s gorgeous and well-respected).</p>

8

<p>We toured a couple of those colleges mentioned and though my D is technically catholic, she considers herself liberal agnostic. Most Jesuit schools have 50% catholic student body…at the most. One school we toured was 30%. Most of them require 2-3 theology courses, but offerings will include things like: World Religions or even liberation theology. Even 30+ years ago when I attended a well-known Jesuit college, two of my most interesting courses were theology and I was a liberal agnostic. There was even a Hillel. There will be lots of like-minded students and the professors (even the priests) are used to critical thinkers. Every agnostic I’ve known who’s attended has not had a problem. ON THE OTHER HAND…she shouldn’t expect to get birth-control at the school’s health clinic–especially in this climate.</p>

9

<p>

I’m trying to imagine a professor saying “Well now, we don’t allow students to express those views around here, miss telling. Perhaps you would prefer to sit in the hall.” ;)</p>

<p>Perhaps you will be able to get them to allow the D to sit in on a class or two to reassure her or confirm her fears.</p>

10

<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you! I can’t tell you how much this advice helps! and thank you for the suggestions of the other schools that were totally off my radar screen! </p>

<p>The birth control issue is a huge elephant in the room for me. The idea of forking over a huge chunk of my retirement savings to an institution that does not offer reproductive health care to women seriously pains me. But I feel like I can compensate for my own child by forcing her to go to private doctors near her school for regular check-ups (while also preserving her privacy). This truly is an ethical dilemma for me. But for now, I am turning a blind eye to this issue. Whether doing so is a terrible thing to do is a subject for another thread.</p>

<p>So, regretfully putting aside that particular issue, I’d love to hear from others on the original question.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

11

<p>My daughtEr is at Fordham, a Jesuit university in NYC Bronx. She hasn’t once stepped in the chapel. She did enjoynthe religion classes tho, lots of option.</p>

<p>The birth control issue was something we figured out. Yeah, wish they had it on campus, but we found a great womens clinic, and it wasn’t that big a deal. </p>

<p>As a card carrying member of planned parenthood, it was something that bugged me as well, but we knew going in, so we looked at the positives for the school.</p>

<p>Usf is an amazing school in a great location. One thing ruses schools may have is the core curriculum which some students find annoying, but to me, it was a more well grounded education, in the classic college sense.</p>

12

<p>Nottelling, if your D is staying close to home, she can go to her own doctor for regular check ups. My D across country with similar situation just made her appointments during summer. BC pills can be picked up at local Walgreens or mailed. Irritating, but not really an issue.<br>
I know kids at every one of the 4 you mentioned…and they could all be described as your D. At the Jesuit U’s and at USD, your D will find many that share her views…and she will find spirited discussions.<br>
Getting into SCU, LMU & USD becoming more difficult. All have lovely campuses.
One bonus of the Jesuit schools–never underestimate how amazingly widespread and helpful their Alumni are!</p>

13

<p>Tangential response to something buried in the OP: give Scripps another look. It may be a women’s college…but my D, whom I never thought would go to a women’s college, went to Smith, upon which Scripps is modeled, and had a blast. But I think Scripps is far more integrated into the Claremont Colleges and your D would see plenty of those of the male persuasion without having to work very hard at it. (For us, Scripps was waaay too close.)</p>

14

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<p>At my kids’ east coast Jesuit university, not only was critical thinking encouraged, it was taught in my D’s honors program.</p>

<p>We are not Catholic nor even particularly religious and my kids fit in fine. They had friends who were liberal and some who were conservative.</p>

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<p>Agreed! My H is sometimes on hiring committees at his college and someone from a Jesuit university usually gets a plus from him during resume review.</p>

15

<p>The only time I’ve seen a Catholic school–having been associated with Catholic schools from preschool through college–get “upset” with people from outside the Catholic faith was when a couple mom’s tried to start a petition that their non-Catholic students be allowed to participate in the First Communion ceremony. </p>

<p>As long as she is open to the Catholic viewpoint on Gay Marriage, abortion, etc. and is ok taking some heat for her opposing views, there is no reason why she shouldn’t feel comfortable at any of those schools. The Catholic college I attended, while not openly supporting the gay lifestyle, certainly did not oppose that and I had a few classes where professors even brought in students to talk to the class about being gay. Many of the profs were not Catholic too.</p>

16

<p>D will graduate from DePaul in a few months (I know it’s neither Californian or Jesuit - but it IS Catholic.) She is also a liberal, agnostic, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etc. etc. kind of girl who was especially leery of the required religion classes. As it turned out, she should not have worried - ALL of her professors (even the religion professors) encouraged robust discussions of everything, including politics and religion.</p>

17

<p>nottelling—honestly, is the birth control issue really that big of a deal? It isn’t like they can’t have birth control on campus. She can get it elsewhere. There is a good chance your pharmacy plan has a mail order option and she can just have her pills mailed right to her mail box on campus. She can most likely still get a prescription for birth control at the student clinic, just not get it filled there. They didn’t have the asthma medicine my son needed at their student clinic so he had to go to CVS down the road, not an issue at all.</p>

18

<p>My daughters never got heat for their views. There are some religious schools, Christian colleges, and others like pepper dine, that are more conservative. </p>

<p>Bit the ones you listed, your daughter will have no problem. The Jesuits especially are focused on a full education, thus the core, and required classes, but the variety there and even my daughters mostly enjoyed them. Cept for the foreign language aspect.</p>

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<p>I agree that the birth control issue is not a major thing. There are a lot of things that are not covered at the student heatlh clinics. I urge every single parent to familiarize the student at college with the health care options in the area and set up a system. I don’t think these student health clinics are good at giving referrals to the best care if there is a problem, and most of the time, I’d prefer a doctor or a clinic that is of a higher calibre dealing iwth most health issues anyways. I’ve been unhappy with every single student health center that has come to my atttention, including the one at Johns Hopkins University. If you think your kid has a direct line to the world renown hospital by virtue of going there, you are wrong!</p>

<p>I’ve known students of every belief going to Catholic colleges and, really any college that operates without a strong religious overtone is fine. When you make these decisions, it’s important to spend a day or two and make sure that the atmosphere is one that works with the student. Schools that the Neumann Society have on their list are not good choices for anyone who does not want “in your face” Catholicism and that includes most Catholics that I know.</p>

20

<p>S went to a Jesuit HS and now attends Marquette, a Jesuit University. S is not Catholic. H & I are non practicing. Although my S would have prefered to not have to take religion/theology he states that religion was never taught as this is the right way and everything else is wrong, but more as a history type class. Religion is really a non issue with the kids if they want it that way. Those who want to go to church and follow the faith do, and those that don’t, don’t. I suspect most Jesuit schools are the same.</p>