liberal arts vs. conservatory

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>With more certainty now than ever, my D has decided to begin the process of applying to MT programs beginning next school year. She has waivered back and forth, but now knows this is her passion. I've read CC for musical theater for over a year now, but backed off when she became more ambivalent during her junior year. I am now trying to catch up. So far, she has five schools she's focused on: Emerson, Syracuse (older sister is there now as a PR major), Ithaca, NYU and Northwestern. I'm encouraging her to add a couple more to the list to pad her chances, but we're having a hard time defining those other two schools. At this point, if she does not get into any MT programs as a freshman, she will most likely go to Northwestern, where she will get another shot in the audition process as a freshman or sophomore. Based on her high school academic record and EC's, the college counselor at her school calls Northwestern her safety school academically, so this is a good thing to have as plan B. Of course, based on her academics, he would love to see her get into NYU, a school she'd already sent her scores to before he even knew what her scores and goals were.</p>

<p>I've been visiting the "big list" of schools' websites, but am having a difficult time discerning the status of some of the schools - which schools are true conservatories (some are obvious in their names), and which offer MT within a liberal arts context. My daughter is definitely interested in the liberal arts context - she wants more opportunity to meet students other than those in the MT programs. She also needs a program where, in those liberal arts classes, she will be challenged academically (I am a bit concerned about Emerson's academics, but she loved the school). She has visited all the schools listed above, and I'm hoping to sway her into visiting a couple more. </p>

<p>This summer she will be working on getting all her admissions applications completed, and selecting/preparing audition materials. We will be working with an audition coach also, but in order to know what to work on, we have to have her schools narrowed down so we are aware of what they require for their auditions. Any feedback on other schools that might fit this bill would be appreciated.</p>

2

<p>I would really, really, REALLY encourage you to choose your other choices from the less competitive schools. I applied to all those schools (minus Northwestern) and more and didn't get into any (for musical theater). Everyone applies to these programs and getting rejected doesn't necessesarily reflect your talent level, but that you aren't exactly what they are looking for or, as I believe someone indicated on another thread recently, the school has enough people of your "type" already. Just something to consider. If I could do it all over again, I would have found this site BEFORE I applied to all my schools and picked some less competitive/less well known programs. But you're lucky in that you have this resource at this point in the process. Search some older threads for info on other schools. I'm sure you are familiar with some, as you said you've been on here for some time. Absolutely try for the big names, but have backups that you love just as much. I know lots of people say this, but I wanted to say it myself as someone who has just come off a year of learning it the hard way. I don't necessesarily know of any schools to recommend, but I did want to put that out there. Good luck to you and your daughter with everything :D</p>

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<p>ALLWAYS have a back up school. That is the biggest thing, don't go to just the big schools. I have a couple friends that applied to tons of schools and nearly tried out for every one at the unified auditions and they both only got into one school. I have two other friends that only applied to one or two schools and end up not getting into any. They were both great performers but just didn't make those schools, and had their college plans halted big time. Myself, on the other hand, only applied to two of the major schools and ended up dropping one for personal matters (nothing bad about the school just my personal issues on something) so I was down to one of the major schools and about four back up schools. I was lucky and was accepted into the one major school that I applied to and was able to get the "Means" for paying for it. But that was not the way to go either, I was lucky and should have applied to more major programs. So you should really go with a lot of schools, back ups and major ones, a good balance of schools I say would be nine to thirteen, about four back ups and the rest big schools (for MT). Then you would have a much better chance of succeeding in the area. And do apply to the back ups no matter how good you think you are trust me it happens, you could be a belter or something like that and find that it is really hard to make it as that because there are so many out there. So sorry for rambling, but the point is HAVE BACK UPS!
Oh and about the liberal arts thing, you'll get a more well rounded education, but with a BFA (BM for OCU) youre supposed to be able to hit the ground running after graduation.</p>

<p>For auditions have a core auditon song/monologue selection that you can change a bit from school to school. For example, I really didn't change my group of stuff from school to school like some of my friends did, I used an old up tempo from Guys and Dolls, a newer ballad and a conteporary monologue from the drama "With their Eyes" this covered about 75% to 100% of all the school's requirements and i filled in the rest for other schools, like a classical aria and a comedic monologue. now about the ballad, for some schools, I used a song from Les Mis, although it is usually recommended to not sing from current Broadway shows. Some schools have a "no sing list" do not, DO NOT use a song off it, I had a friend that thought he was hot stuff and didn't care about the "don't sing list" cause he was "just that good". Well guess what happend to him at many an audition? "ehem, do you have anything else prepared?" and of course he said " um no." I think he learned his lesson ( he did not get into those schools) and I took note from that and got about 10 or so back up songs ranging from a high pop-ish songs to lower classic songs, old and new, ballad and up tempo. I had stuff from the "no sing list" and some that were a little obscure, you know, to see what they wanted. Now when you pick your core songs my, (and this is my suggestion, and some will tell you otherwise, people that are more qualified than me but hey this worked for me) suggestion is to find songs that fit within your range, but show the BEST of extremes, no squeaking out a high C or wispering a low E if you don't have them. For me I chose songs that took me to a High B and one that took me to a low A, I could have gone a little higher but it really wasn't needed and I still need time to get a presenatable C out there but hey that is what college is for! Make sure you really connect with the song. Now on to the monologue, don't get one from a monologue book, you should read the whole play. This will help you understand the character better, you know where they are comming from and who they really are. Also don't use an accent, they want to know who you are not some british guy. One more thing, age appropriate is important. Now I took a risk on my monolouge and played some one with a disablity but I made it seem mild but still kept and maintained the character's belivability.
so that is my advice take it or don't, that is up to you
hope i helped and didn't hurt! Good Luck!</p>

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<p>BroadwayB </p>

<p>That may well be true for you and the “type” issue certainly exists yet there are also kids who have been on this forum who got accepted to every school they applied to including the best of the best.</p>

<p>Teriwtt</p>

<p>At eleven years of age our daughter proclaimed that she would be acting professionally at a very very competitive place. We did not encourage her at that young age. From that day to this she has stuck to that claim and backed it up with action. She will hear nothing of a “back up” or academics even though her hs gpa is 3.9. This is in her heart. Kids throw around the word passion pretty freely. With a history of wavering and ambivalence and the competitive nature of this vocation and the cost and emotional toll just do your best to be darn sure this truly is the right path for your child. Unfortunately every year kids get into good or even great programs and never see the professional stage. They find a boyfriend or get discouraged and on and on. </p>

<p>Beyond that search this forum there are lists in several locations. Including in the MT forum under Best Schools, FishbowlFreshman has a pretty well thought out list</p>

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<p>WallyWorld - Not to be disrespectful or ruffle any feathers, but I don't think there is one student on this site who got into every program they applied to. I believe that's unrealistic thinking.</p>

<p>Teriwit- I agree with everyone that your D will need to apply to many, many schools. You may have great SAT's, great grades, even be the most amazing talent in the world....but not every school will want you. Most won't have room in an MT program for all they'd like to accept.<br>
Good luck!</p>

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<p>WallyWorld - my daughter has been performing since 4th grade and in some relatively competitive and challenging venues. However, despite her wishes back then for me to open up every performing door for her, I decided I wanted her elementary years to be well-rounded - it was my value, and I firmly believed if she is meant to perform, it will happen whether she gets into a MT program or not. It may not happen in college at all, but if it's truly her gift and passion, I'm convinved she can make it happen. Regarding her passion; she's probably once never used the word, but she speaks it with her actions everyday. She is committed, devoted, responsible, teachable, curious, self-challenging and hard-working when it comes to her craft, and she has been rewarded for it. One of the traits I've heard over and over again regarding the audition for MT programs is the ability of the student to respond to the director's suggestions and really connect with the character as she sings/acts/etc. She has this going for her, too. So if she doesn't get into a program, it won't be because she's not a gifted performer.</p>

<p>I agree with everyone here regarding applying to more schools, which is why I wrote the original post. I'm looking for schools to direct her energies to, but that will also challenge her academically. Her weighted GPA is 4.12 (she has three AP classes now and will have two more next year); ACT is 35; perfect on the writing portion of SAT and either commended or finalist for National Merit. Even if she got into a backup school, if she wasn't challenged, it would not be a good fit. I realize as it pertains to the MT audition, all these wonderful stats mean little, if nothing.</p>

<p>Regarding the waivering and ambivalence, perhaps it was mine and her father's implicit message that she explore all her options that, for perhaps a year, planted the seed for things other than MT (all the while she was performing). Her father and I both have advanced degrees and have always valued and nurtured learning as a life-long journey and to leave your options open.</p>

<p>I know my daughter has many gifts, one of which is performing; if she does not succeed in round 1, I will not believe (nor will she) it's not because she's not talented - it just may be the year that there are 500 strawberry blonde belters (with a great range) with classic features, with lots of experience vying for 15 spots at any given school. Would it be devastating? At the time, yes. But we grow from our defeats, too, and move on. </p>

<p>So if I could go back to my original question, which schools with MT programs would also be academically challenging in a liberal arts context? For example, NYU has two programs, one of which is more conservatory oriented, and the other more liberal arts oriented. This is the kind of information we need to fine tune her choices (or increase her choices). Thanks.... Teri</p>

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<p>Some of these might save you some money ...</p>

<p>U. Michigan
UCLA (BA, but may as well be a BFA)
Penn State
Florida State
Elon
Otterbein (She would get a large academic scholarship if she got in.)
Oklahoma City U. (Full tuition scholarship if she gets in and makes National Merit Finalist)
U. Oklahoma (Total full ride if she makes National Merit Finalist)
U. Miami (She would probably get a large scholarship if Northwestern is a "safety.")
U. Arizona (Full tuition scholarships for National Merit Finalists, but beware the cuts)</p>

<p>Definitely apply to a state university or some such close to home as a true, rock-solid safety. You never know what might happen with places like Northwestern. I've known some super smart kids that got turned down there. It only takes like ten minutes to fill out most state U apps if you have all your info together. No offense to any schools in particular, but if Northwestern is like a semi-safety, she might find the intellectual and cultural environments at some to be stultifying (like I did at my first school) and should consider applying for some other Ivy schools where she could do lots of MT as an extracurricular. Yale, Brown, and Cornell come to mind.</p>

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<p>fishbowlfreshman -</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding NU - it's funny that you should mention some bright kids being turned down. The valedictorian from our high school was turned down this year, but he was of the mind set that you spend all your time on academics and avoid classes that lower your GPA (such as band and chorus). From what I hear, he had no ECs. Our college counselor often has someone from NU (we're only 45 minutes away) come speak to junior parents about the college application experience, and he knows the guy fairly well. He said if my D did not get admitted to NU, that would instigate one of those phone calls on his part asking what part of the application is missing/erroneous. Because these two men have collaborated for several years, I feel fairly confident he knows the NU standards. However..... you never know.</p>

<p>Of course we like the idea of scholarship, but I'm sure she will go anywhere she gets accepted as a freshman if it's MT. Thankfully, we've planned well. Of the schools you listed, are they all set in a liberal arts context? And out of curiousity, what was the first school you attended that you refer to in your post? Thanks, Teri</p>

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<p>Teriwtt,</p>

<p>This is a relatively new field of information for me and “it’s not in a book” so my method to flattening the learning curve is to ask a lot of questions of anybody with knowledge who will talk to me. There are some very knowledgeable people out there who have taught me a lot. There are a lot of clueless people also. They love their kid and want the best but have no idea of the realities. You obviously have a way above average grasp. Good luck!</p>

<p>Lynnm,</p>

<p>I know of three students in the past year and a half who have been accepted to everything they applied to. Two from this forum and one personally. </p>

<p>I have read a number of books on the subject of college planning, finances, attended a couple of seminars, etc. Addressing the topic of college in general not performing arts. A common theme came up in terms of number of schools to apply to and it was 12 to 15.</p>

<p>The suggestion to apply to;</p>

<p>4-5 safeties
4-5 good fits
4-5 reaches</p>

<p>Fishbowl,</p>

<p>If things don’t work out for you (and I know they will) you should write the book on this subject!</p>

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<p>WallyWorld, I am talking about MT, not general acceptance into schools. If you know of three individuals who were accepted into each school they AUDITIONED for, then those are definitely the exceptions to the rule and not the norm. If you looked at this board, alone, at all the students who have applied and been accepted, you will see that getting into a few of your choices is a really positive experience. Many will get into one of ten or twelve, some may not get into any the first time around. There really isn't a safety, fit, or reach when it comes to Musical Theatre, unless you are talking about NON-AUDITION schools. As I stated, if you are speaking academically (alone), then the story completely changes.</p>

<p>I only write this because I wouldn't want someone new to the forum to think that getting into a MT program is along the lines of being accepted into a college in general. It's much, much more narrowly defined.</p>

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<p>Maybe when I wrote “the best of the best” in the MT forum it was not clear enough. I very much realize it is the exception but the point was to contrast Broadway’s advice that revolved around applicants who didn’t get into any program. </p>

<p>I wont tell you who and where for the purposes of anonymity since some of them still lurk around this forum. But I am talking about at the level of Julliard, Carnegie –Mellon, Rutgers, NCSA, DePaul, Evansville, University of Minnesota and so on. Two pursing MT one straight drama. Accepted to every program they auditioned for and all applied to more than 5 programs.</p>

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<p>Teriwtt,
All of the schools I listed are either in a university or liberal arts college environment and are not conservatories. The way to figure out how many good liberal arts classes she could take is to look at the curriculums for the majors which will usually be listed in the Undergraduate Catalogue/Bulletin on the school's website, see how many and which general education classes are required, and then see how many of those she could exempt through her AP/IB work. Most schools have their AP credit substitutions linked here. </p>

<p>Of the ones I listed, the best liberal arts options are probably going to be at Michigan, UCLA, and Miami. Also, I believe Ericsmom mentioned that her son chose Elon because he would have enough time in the curriculum to study art and I assume that would certainly leave ample time for liberal arts if your D has similar AP/IB substitutions. Otterbein seems similar. Neither of those are what I would consider top academic schools, but I believe both have honors programs though you might want to check me on that. The rest are pretty much the standard state university academic fare. </p>

<p>I went to my first school for acting - not MT - and it's not on the list. I'd rather not mention it on the forum. The stultifying academics were only one of the reasons I left. The rest were personal. I'd rather let people decide for themselves on that one. :)</p>

<p>Wallyworld,
Hrmmm ... I'll have to keep my notes. Maybe I'll have time to write that book between auditions when I'm out on the street with a BFA in Acting. I'm sure I'll be needing the money! LOL</p>

<p>LynnM,
I know of two kids that got in everywhere they auditioned, but it was for Acting and not MT. One was a second timer and the other has been working professionally on stage and screen since he/she was knee high to a grasshopper. Both also already had a good bit of preprofessional training. I agree that it is the exception and not the rule for that to happen - especially in MT.</p>

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<p>Fishbowl- My respect for you grows every day and with every post. I think I'll go to Amazon now and pre-order a copy of everything you ever write.</p>

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<p>WallyWorld- I know there are definately exceptions, but who doesn't think they (or their child, for that matter) are one? (I know not everybody actually thinks that they are the most talented person in the world, but self-confidence, as importaint as it is, can be deluding). The fact of the matter is, while there are certainly a number of extremly talented individuals that are lucky enough to succed in everything they do, most people, however talented they may be, are NOT going to get in to every competitive program they apply to (or maybe not even get in to any. Welcome to the buisness). You just can't know ahead of time, so better to be prepared. Again, I'm not saying that there are not amazingly talented people who are the clearly among the best at auditions, but the fact is they see many, many more kids than they can accept so you should just always account for that. That's all I ment. I mean, it really can't hurt to be overprepared. And I was just trying to help...</p>

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<p>Fishbowl,</p>

<p>That book would have saved me a lot of time. I think you should write it now cause something tells me when your “on the street” you will be plenty busy. If you do write it maybe I can write a promo piece that would be right up your…..well….bowl.</p>

<p>If your floundering around in the world of arts school admittance your not alone, it’s a world full of piranha’s. This guide book is packed to the gills with good information and is definitely no fish story. If you feel like a fish out of water finding the right college this swimmingly good rendition of a fishbowls view of the world will have you perched over it until the bitter end. Don’t be bowled over by watered down guide books that are a real kettle of fish offered by those other bottom feeding crustaceans. So pull up your anchor, stop carping, get off your tail fin, and take the bait cause on a scale of one to ten this is no boondoggle. With this book you can float right into auditions and angle yourself so that top schools will accept you hook line and sinker. Remember, fish are smart, they all live in schools. The only downside to this manual is that it was modeled after the ocean so it has no beginning, middle or end and it is all over the place!</p>

<p>Broadway,</p>

<p>I don’t disagree with anything you have said. And clearly you were just trying to help. I was just showing the other side. As a former professional athlete who attained moderate success I am well versed in competition, winning and loosing.</p>

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<p>Side note...I agree with Lynn about the notion that Wally is bringing up regarding some kids on this forum being admitted to every BFA school on their list including the top schools. I have been reading this forum for almost four years. There have been some students admitted to several schools, including top ones. I have yet to find anyone (maybe there is someone?) who has been admitted to every BFA school on their list. When one reads the list of acceptances, they are seeing JUST the acceptances, not every school to which the student applied. Some have multiple acceptances. Some of those include top programs. I don't think, however, they got into every program they applied to. I know numerous students in BFA in MT programs and even those I know attending the so called "top programs", none of those students got into EVERY school on their list. We do have students represented here who got into none of their BFA programs, and some students who got into some, and some who got into many BFA programs including top programs, but not all.</p>

<p>Teri, back to the original question....
First, obviously your D is an excellent student. Even so, for the best students, Northwestern would rarely be considered a true safety school. For top students, it is often considered a match and may very well be an "easier match" for your daughter, but not a sure thing given the low admit rate. So, it likely is one to have as a fall back from the BFA programs, but is not a guaranteed admit for most students. </p>

<p>Your D's list is a very good start. She definitely needs more schools to hedge her chances given the very competitive nature of BFA in MT admissions. I don't know your D and would have to know lots more specifics to recommend schools. But given that you are looking for a BFA that also offers some liberal arts and where the liberal arts are in a challenging learning environment, I can relate a bit. I have a daughter who just finished freshman year in a BFA in MT program and ideally also wanted a program that had some liberal arts offerings and preferably in a more challenging academic environment. Not every school on her list fit that description but she did have to widen her list and some schools fit certain crtieria she had better than others. Her first two choices were NYU/Tisch and UMichigan and besides other reasons, these two offered the higher level of academic selectivity of those on her list. She is now attending Tisch. </p>

<p>I think that Fishbowlfreshman named several of the schools that do offer more academics than some other BFA programs. For instance, I am familiar with Penn State's BFA and that program indeed requires quite a bit of liberal arts, though academically is not as selective as NYU and UMich. I think UMiami might be a good option for your D in terms of the academic selectivity aspect. She may want to look into the programs at UCLA or USC though they are not exactly a BFA in MT but may appeal to her. I would also research all the schools that Fishbowl mentioned. Try Elon. Emerson requires quite a bit of liberal arts courses. While Ithaca does, as well, it is not too academically challenging. If you PM Sporti (Maggie) who went there this past year, and who is a very good student, she found the academics not so challenging. Nonetheless, when choosing a BFA program, and then having to choose amongst the ones you get into (which could be very few), you have to weigh which school most closely fits what you want and sometimes you have to give in one area to get in another. For instance, my D is also a very good student but still applied to Ithaca and got in. But she opted for the more academically challenging school and also prefered the location over Ithaca's, amongst other reasons. </p>

<p>As Fishbowl mentioned, your D might want to add a couple of non BFA schools where she could still do quite a bit of musical theater in an academically challenging setting....such as Brown, Yale, Cornell, Vassar, Tufts, and so on. A step down in academic selectivity but a safety for your D could be Skidmore. Good theater program and they put on student run musicals that are considered very good. I know many MT kids who have opted to go that route and are very active in MT and have gone onto careers in the field. She may want to also look into Muhlenberg as her safety because it has a very good MT program that is a BA program with an optional audition, and yet, this school still is academically strong. A possible fall back for your D could be American, another BA program but it is by audition but may appeal academically over a few other MT programs.</p>

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<p>Addition to my post above:</p>

<p>I wrote the above post many hours ago and just didn't finish and send it until now due to many distractions. I now see other posts have been posted in the meantime. I just want to say that a student who got into all her BFA in Acting programs, while fantastic, is still not the same as a student applying to ONLY BFA in MT programs....those are not the same. MT can be the toughest nut of all to crack in terms of odds of admissions. It is also very much not the same as regular college admissions. Thus comparing results is apples to oranges. I don't know anyone who applied to ONLY BFA in MT programs including top ones who had a 100% rate of acceptance. They may exist but I don't know them, nor have met anyone on this forum who fit that description. Clearly it is a big exception. I do know kids at the tippy top programs and they had several admits but not 100% admits. Since most students apply to at least 7 schools (who are applying to ONLY BFA programs), please notice the big list of MT acceptances on this forum and rarely do you find someone with 7 or more BFA admits next to their name. Many would consider someone who got into 4 or more BFA programs as being very successful (though of course you can only go to one and only need one and it is not a contest). The most successful numbers I know of with kids getting into BFA in MT programs and who only applied to such programs, were admitted to five. They applied to more than five, however. Many are attending top programs in this field.</p>

<p>As far as a balanced list of reach, match, safety.....that kind of balance is very different for a BFA candidate than for a student applying to regular colleges. I have a student who applied to regular colleges, who currently attends Brown. Her list was balanced like I suggest to clients....approx. 40% reaches, 40% matches/ballpark, 20% safeties. Often schools don't fit neatly into those three categories and the list just needs balance and her schools' selectivity were on a continuium. For most BA students, about 8 colleges is enough (that was what my kids did). For most, no more than 10 are needed. I only think more than 10 are justified for a few reasons....if someone is chasing merit aid....or if someone wants a list of a few DIFFERENT sorts of options or degree programs (ie., a student wants 7 BFA programs but is also considering BAs so applies to 5 BAs). But rarely do I see reason for anyone to apply to more than 12 schools. Then the person is not focused enough in their college search and also cannot devote the energy required to each application, visit, audition (if BFA), etc. </p>

<p>BFA candidates, however, if only applying to BFAs, really have a list that is all reaches (not reaches due to ability or stats necessarily, but reaches due to admit rates and these schools are reaches for everyone, no matter how talented or how high stats are). My D who went for BFA programs only, had 8 on her list. I considered them all reaches. Many BFA candidates need to add BFA schools that are less competitive (even though they have low admit rates) and/or audition based BA programs and/or BA safeties. For those who do that, they may have more than 8 schools. Still, more than 12 is rarely necessary.</p>

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<p>Teriwtt, I have to echo lynnm and Susan here. I've also been on these forums for a few years now. My D just finished her junior year at Tisch, and I, too, have never seen any student who posts here having been accepted to every MT program they've auditioned for, it just hasn't happened, to my knowledge. My D is also an excellent academic student and wanted a school where she could be challenged academically. She is currently completing a double major and, although, it hasn't been easy, she is glad that she chose a program where academics were equally as important as the artistic talent. </p>

<p>Susan's given you excellent advice and suggestions here. I concur with it based not only on my D's experience, but that of many students we know who are in top BFA programs across the country. I can't think of even one who was accepted to every program on their list. I also would caution you in thinking of Northwestern as a safety, regardless of your D's academic stats or your counsellor's relationship with the school. Best of luck to you. You've come to the right place!</p>

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<p>Teri, </p>

<p>I meant to respond to something else in one of your posts. You wrote:</p>

<p>"For example, NYU has two programs, one of which is more conservatory oriented, and the other more liberal arts oriented. This is the kind of information we need to fine tune her choices (or increase her choices)."</p>

<p>I just want to make sure you understand that Tisch IS a conservatory program but within a liberal arts university. The BFA part of the program is a conservatory training type program. The student attends conservatory three very full days per week (not counting rehearsals, crew, etc.) They also take academic courses in Theater studies. As well, they take liberal arts courses and have some broad distribution requirements in the sciences and humanities. I don't know which program, Steinhardt or Tisch that you considered liberal arts oriented or conservatory oriented. Steinhardt is a BM degree. Tisch is a BFA which is conservatory oriented. But you must compare one BFA program to another. For instance, there is a big difference between the BFA at a place like Boston Conservatory and Tisch. BOCO has a little bit of liberal arts, but not nearly as many academic requirements at Tisch and also not the range of liberal arts courses or level of academic selectivity. (not knocking BOCO....great school...my own kid got in). But please know that if your D is considering Tisch, it truly is a conservatory approach to the BFA but also has a liberal arts component, as do several BFA programs (ie., Penn State, Emerson, UMich). As well, the academic admissions to Tisch are selective and so there is that level of challenge that may not be as high at a very selective BFA program that is located in a less selective (academically) university. I have a client who got into Tisch this year who is a top student like your D seems to be. I can think of several of my D's friends who are top students who have also been admitted to Tisch (not all have gone). While there is a mix of students there, I believe your D will have a decent level of academics. Just last night my D was saying that she loved the writing courses she took at NYU and how happy she was to be getting that sort of thing in addition to the MT intensive training. She has commented many times how her professors challenged her to take her writing to a higher level (in an individualized way) and she is a gifted writer. I know that AlwaysAMom's D is also a very good student and has been able to challenge herself at NYU as well. Clearly, your D must find many schools to love that would fit her. But if academic challenge and a liberal arts component are criteria she cares about, along with a great MT training program, this school is that....both conservatory and liberal arts...plus both academics and artistic talent are weighed in the admissions decision. </p>

<p>You need to examine the curriculum and requirements at each school. For instance, CMU which is a fantastic BFA program and is located at a selective academic university, is mostly conservatory training with very little liberal arts. Penn State, while not as selective academically, requires far more liberal arts than CMU's BFA program. Your D might want to look into the Honors College at PSU as well. Emerson has an Honors Program too and so that would ratchet up your D's academic component there. Our school's salutatorian attends Emerson.</p>

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<p>I hope people reading this realize that no matter how talented and smart your own child is, this auditioning process is crazy and no one can predict the outcome. Just don't go into the process thinking your talented / smart child will get in everywhere. We saw way too many talented people with many surprises and heart-breaks this year. I want everyone to be realistic and to have a real safety, not a Northwestern level academic safety. You are right that a non-audition school is the only true safety, but I know Northwestern is competitive for admissions in general. I continue to believe that Indiana U is possibly a good choice. I'm pretty sure they will still offer the BA theatre even after the BFA musical theatre goes in next year. </p>

<p>Fishbowl's list looks great, and of course, NYU is known for having a good mix of liberal arts. Also, I think that Elon is quite a competitive school academically, and they have great academic courses and honors and fellows programs in which MT students participate. We are very impressed with their mix of courses for a bright student with many interests who also wants great MT training. As with all of the schools listed by fishbowl, they only take a small percentage of those auditioning for MT.</p>