Life/Career/Advice post MT degree graduation

It was suggested on another thread, that a new thread discussion be started about life and career post MT graduation and any advice or experiences to share.

For reference, there have been some threads in the past on this topic (though a new current one is a good idea):

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1515255-graduating-from-a-mt-program-now-what.html#latest

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1318265-what-future-are-our-mt-s-training-for.html#latest

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/531327-report-successes-after-graduation-here.html#latest

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1665380-how-does-an-mt-major-support-themselves-post-graduation.html

I’ll start with one piece of advice that I believe my daughter, now 7 years out of her MT program, would likely tell others…

Do not merely wait for work to come to you (such as auditioning and hoping to be cast), but make work and opportunities for yourself. In other words, if you just audition and have long spells of not getting cast, then you are not working in your field and you are not building up a career, or even getting to enjoy work in theater and music. Get yourself out there in some capacity. Life after a MT degree cannot rely just on auditioning. My D rarely even auditions. Be the driver of your career. Do something and don’t wait for it all to come to you.

One extra tidbit…it takes a while to build up a career in this area. The measure of “success” really isn’t about what happens the first year or two out of the program. As your network grows, and more experiences happen, things can mushroom over time. Be patient, but also drive your own career.

Although my S hasn’t graduated yet (he’s a junior), I totally agree with @soozievt’s advice - and would like to add to it. In order to be “up and running” post graduation, MT students need to be taking lots of risks and trying new things while still in school. Be on the creative/production end of student-run works. Audition for entities outside of school where you KNOW the competition is better than you are. Put yourself in front of casting directors multiple times so they’ll have a sense of who you are in multiple encounters over a longer period of time. Take that theater job that doesn’t pay well, but will give you a chance to learn new things (S took a summer job waiting tables and proved to himself that he’d rather be in a “less-than-desirable” theater job, than wait tables again). And YES, create the work you would like to be a part of. Take the opportunity to make lots of “mistakes” and take “missteps” while you’re a student. It will only make you stronger and more sure of where you want to go after you leave school. And who know, those “missteps” may turn into the “perfect” path.

I totally agree about making your own work. My son’s doing a play written by one of his classmates this weekend at a very DIY space in Chicago. It’s the kind of thing that helps young actors stay sharp, and also, you never know where anything’s going until you’ve done it.

My D did a one woman show last spring for her honor’s thesis, It’s about how she has dealt with anxiety and stresses over pursuing a performing career in particular and college life in general (look it up on youtube: The Happiness Project: A Work in Progress). I think it would be a wonderful thing to share at high schools and colleges, to show other young women they are not alone in such feelings and that they can take control and make positive choices to move forward. Thus far I haven’t been able to convince her to do so, but we’re working on it!

I realize this is the MT thread, but is there any way we can expand this discussion to film/ commercial, straight theatre as well? I think that would easier than having a parallel thread on the Acting thread, and also there’s so much overlap - in many ways the division becomes artificial - but maybe you guys disagree?

I agree…I think it can be quite wide open to all work related to theater / performing arts, etc. If anything, many of our kids will wear many hats and do a variety of types of work. I know my kid does.

My kid’s straight acting, as is his play on Sunday. He’s done a bunch of student films, too, though nothing since the summer.

For grads and soon-to-be grads …

Cruise ships. Anyone’s kids go this route? Love to hear stories of your kids or people you know who’ve done this. (If I was 20 years younger and had talent, because lets be honest, I DON’T, I would totally have loved to do this.)

@KaMaMom, my S had a friend who was Cinderella on Disney Cruise, and she loved it.

Other than that - not much info - I don’t know much about it except that it can obviously be stressful in that you are in close quarters with your fellow cruise mates (you share rooms), the food is not the cruise food served to guests, etc. Aside from experience-building, I bet it’s a great way to make a dent on loans!

@kaMaMom, that might be good for its own thread. I do know of several MT kids who have done this and had terrific experiences, as well as one kid who didn’t (smaller ship and had lots of “extra” responsibilities so beware of that). My son is not MT but is a musician and has been doing the cruise ship thing and really enjoys it. It has upped his musicianship and he loves getting to see the world and getting paid for it while not having expenses so he can pocket a lot of his earnings. For kids who can tolerate being away for months on end and want the chance to travel and save some money or pay back loans, it’s a great thing.

Some cruise ship anecdotes that d heard from one of her profs who worked on cruise ships:

  1. Some/many lines require the performers to "mingle" with the guests in the bar after the show, but they must: (a) avoid any fraternization (wink-wink) with customers, (b) not get intoxicated, and (c) not create any hard feelings. Her prof said this was somewhat difficult to achieve given that: (a) many customers were *very* interested in fraternization; (b) a steady stream of people offered to buy drinks; and (c) some customers got a little peeved if some combination of (a) and (b) were refused. On one cruise, a performer apparently had a few too many drinks, violated some aspects of (a), (b) and (c), and was literally thrown off the boat in port very early the next morning. Fortunately, it was a port in Florida so the poor girl could make her way home fairly easily. The scene that he described struck my d as pretty dramatic: the poor girl apparently couldn't really figure out what she had done, was sobbing profusely, and had to pack her bags and get off in a matter of minutes at about 7am. For some 21-22-year-olds, fresh out of college, no doubt this environment can be very challenging. He said to always read, understand, and internalize the contract and terms of employment *very* carefully.
  2. There are different categories of performers. Apparently the brass ring is be a "guest performer" where you are treated more or less like a passenger, versus the "full time" performers who have to perform additional tasks such as giving ship tours, teaching classes, etc. Her prof said landing a "guest performer" role was one of the best gigs he ever had - he was paid more, did less, and was treated better (bigger cabin, etc.). In fact, he was so bored that he volunteered to help out with tours and "bar duty."
  3. There are notable differences between the various cruise lines, with some treating their performers really well and some, **not so much**. There was at least one cruise line that he described as, "avoid at all costs."

There are at least a couple of books written about working as an entertainer on a cruise ship.

Even different ships on the same cruise line can be different. On one ship my son could eat in the same location at the same time as passengers whenever he wanted, on another (same cruise line) he couldn’t. And yeah EmsDad is right: you’re out on your ear if you break the rules, drugs and excessive intoxication being really high on the list as well as fraternizing with passengers.

So here are questions I have for those who are several years post-grad:

  1. Besides NYC, what towns are good places to live for aspiring MTs?
  2. What sorts of "survival" jobs did you find? How much time/what sort of schedule did these jobs require?
  3. Did you continue to train/take classes? How often? How important is it to continue to take lessons?
  4. How many auditions do you typically go to?
  5. How important is it to have an agent when you first get to the city?
  6. If you don't already have an agent, how do you go about getting considered by agents?
  7. What sorts of jobs are not good for the resume?
  8. What do you think of cruise ship jobs?
  9. What do you think of amusement park jobs?
  10. What about traveling shows for youth? (i.e. TheatreWorks USA)
  11. Are there good social media or websites for post grads to get help with finding auditions, finding work, finding housing, etc.?

This in an excellent list of questions. There are very few students who continue to contribute here several years post-grad and only a handful of parents who do that are several years post-grad. I could give my two cents to 1-11 if you want me to try as an observer of an actor 6 months out but I don’t want to over step nor pretend I know more than I do. (I know nothing… nothing!) On the other hand, one may need to calculate post-grad years like dog years since the attrition in this field happens awfully quickly. Your call @vvnstar or anyone else that might care.

I would love any info you want to share @halflokum! Please don’t feel you have to answer all those questions. Those are just questions burning in my mind. I appreciate any and all advice on what comes next!

OK then. Here is my 2 cents. Worth only 1 cent since we are only 6 months in:

1.Besides NYC, what towns are good places to live for aspiring MTs? Anywhere there is work to be had and that can include cities like Boston, Seattle, Chicago, some cities in Ohio, California, Florida, I’d imagine some great cities in Texas, summer theatre hot towns and so on. Go where the work is. The challenge though is to be where the work is to audition for it. Therein lies the rub. We happen to live in one of the hot theatre cities but my daughter lives on the opposite coast is never here to audition for the work here which is too bad because if she could get it, she could live on the cheap at home. She can’t afford to fly home for it. On the other hand (and she has done this), if getting to an out of town audition is just a cheap bus ride… even if it is 4+ hours each way… do it. I’ve got a friend (who posts here) whose incredible daughter just booked a great equity tour by being willing to get on a bus and go to an audition 4 1/2 hours away with no guarantees.

  1. What sorts of "survival" jobs did you find? How much time/what sort of schedule did these jobs require? You will find that if you want to work full-time at a survival job, there is full time work to be had. And if you are not booking theatre work, that’s not a problem. Where it gets tricky is when you are booking theatre work but it’s not quite enough to live on or it is but it’s not enough to “beyond live on” where you can bank for the down times. My daughter has had theatre work nonstop since graduation and almost all of it has been paid work. However, though she has enjoyed periods of “live on” she has yet to be in the “bank on” zone which means she needed supplemental work and the work had to be flexible because she was performing and rehearsing. For her, that work has included tutoring (which required passing certification tests to be hired by the placement company), working as a personal assistant for an event planner, seasonal work for a student tourism company, and temp work. Her friends are also doing things in restaurants, (which my daughter has also done but hates), assistant teaching, nannying, working front desks at salons and gyms, supplementing by making videos, taking head shots and laying down tracks if they are musically inclined etc.
  2. Did you continue to train/take classes? How often? How important is it to continue to take lessons? Broke actors cannot afford classes easily. My daughter has done some sporadic dance classes (wishes she could do more) and has done a couple of those agency seminar things but so far nothing beyond that. She would love to do more classes. She cannot afford them but will take them when she can as she does think it's important. Her friends who are taking classes regularly I'm pretty sure are doing so with help from their parents.
  3. How many auditions do you typically go to? I don’t know how many she goes to because it has become a job and I don’t hear about it much unless there is something to tell. I guess enough because she is working. What I can tell you is that auditioning for a single opportunity can be an all-day time suck especially for non-equity, non-emc actors without appointments. You can get there at the crack of dawn, put your name on the list, and never get seen. Or you can be EMC but not equity and be NEXT on the list and then at the last second equity actors waltz in and you get bumped. (Happened more than once to my daughter who is EMC). So what you learn from this is that auditioning is a time suck so don’t put in the time for anything that you are not absolutely right for because instead of doing that all day, you could be earning $15/hour at some survival job.
  4. How important is it to have an agent when you first get to the city? The vast majority of young actors that get to “the city” (if by the city, you mean NYC… I can’t speak about other cities) do not have representation. Having representation may help you to avoid those open calls where you never get seen but it is not a requirement to book work. And while we are on it, any school that claims all of their graduates have agents after showcases are playing very loosely with the truth. So do not let this become a thing you get overly focused on. Most of your kids will hit “the city” whichever city it is, without representation at all or without representation that matters.
  5. If you don't already have an agent, how do you go about getting considered by agents? Take good work where you can build your network of contacts and that sometimes may include work you don’t get paid for. Be great at it both as a performer and as someone who engages fully and respectfully in the process so that people want to work with you again and want to share your “greatness” with their agents and/or managers. There is nothing like a referral to open a door.
  6. What sorts of jobs are not good for the resume? No idea. I suppose anything that is laughably exaggerated will be seen through in a hot minute. I’ve heard that some pp think getting one’s equity card through TYA carries a stigma. I think that is hilarious and woefully uninformed and shortsighted. Getting one's equity card before having a resume worthy of it is the measure. Where it comes from - nobody cares and nobody will ask.
  7. What do you think of cruise ship jobs? Go where the work is. Some of these pay really well. The only downside other than being homesick if you are prone to it is you could be away during audition season for other jobs but if you are not hired during that season (and most people are not) and you could instead be on a boat in the Mediterranean banking thousands that could carry you through the next audition season… duh?
  8. What do you think of amusement park jobs? It’s not really something that my daughter was interested in but for some young artists, this is the dream job (especially friends that really aspire to work at Disney). I don’t know much about this world but will again say, go where the work is.
  9. What about traveling shows for youth? (i.e. TheatreWorks USA) Go where the work is. My daughter just booked a national TYA tour and is "going where the work is" which may mean sleeping in many a Red Roof Inn (or on the couch of a friend or two I've met here in CC to bank her per diem - it takes a village and luckily... I've got one) for the next 6 months in cities and towns throughout the USA. I think it’s awesome and the right time in her life to do it. Stay open to the opportunities that come your way.
  10. Are there good social media or websites for post grads to get help with finding auditions, finding work, finding housing, etc.? Backstage. Playbill, BroadwayWorld will all list auditions including regional auditions. Subscribing makes it easier to filter. Housing I think many pp know about Gypsyhousing and NY Actor Sublet in FB. I’d assume most schools have an alumni network that can help out too.

Thanks so much @halflokum . I know that response took considerable time to write. And it includes great information. Will be sending to my D asap!

Also many thanks @halflokum!

Thanks @halflokum! I appreciate you sharing with us. My D is one of the kids that really desires to do Disney. Does anyone have information on that? Are their certain schools with an “in” for Disney work?