<p>"In graduate school I lived by myself and tried to learn how to cook macrobiotically. Years later, I accompanied some Tibetan monks on a brief performance/music tour and found that, much to my surprise, they loved McDonald's Happy Meals. This made me reconsider my views on vegetarianism. It's hard to be a vegetarian in the mountainous, high-altitude climate of Tibet, according to the Dalai Lama."</p>
<p>we are so off topic. I'm an schmegan (ex-vegan still vegetarian-veganish)</p>
<p>I'm a bit late to this thread, but I think savvy's likely letter (congrats savvy!) is just another illustration of the fact that SAT's are only a piece of the puzzle. And in filling out that puzzle, the difference between, say, a 2300 composite and a 2100 composite is just not all that meaningful. Savvy is the number 1 student at Lynn Classical, a strong school that regularly sends its top graduates to elite colleges. She accomplished that despite the facts that neither of her parents went to college and that, in addition to school, she's held a job for four years. On top of that, she's been actively involved in extracurriculars (captain of swim team and quiz bowl, varsity tennis, community service) that involve substantial time commitments. She's passionate about science, and she has good recs and I'm assuming excellent essays. That she received a likely letter doesn't surprise me - I'm just hoping she chooses Harvard over Stanford. :)</p>
<p>I also think the criticism directed towards guitarman in this thread is unwarranted. I can't say I've read all his posts, but I think he comes across as friendly and likeable, with a good sense of humor and, of course, real passion and talent for astronomy. I'm hoping he gets good news on March 30th. And congrats on your Yale likely letter - it's not a bad school either. ;)</p>
<p>1) I think the criticism against guitarman is unwarranted as well. I think most people are actually jealous, and that manifests itself in hate.</p>
<p>2) The whole savvy likely letter thing still doesn't matter sense. Let me examine one explanation:</p>
<p>
[quote]
a 2300 composite and a 2100 composite is just not all that meaningful. Savvy is the number 1 student at Lynn Classical, a strong school that regularly sends its top graduates to elite colleges. She accomplished that despite the facts that neither of her parents went to college and that, in addition to school, she's held a job for four years. On top of that, she's been actively involved in extracurriculars (captain of swim team and quiz bowl, varsity tennis, community service) that involve substantial time commitments. She's passionate about science, and she has good recs and I'm assuming excellent essays. That she received a likely letter doesn't surprise me - I'm just hoping she chooses Harvard over Stanford.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This would be a joke it it weren't so serious. You think there aren't any other valedictorians applying? You think nobody else has a job? You think that being captain of one sport merits a likely letter from Harvard? Are you out of your mind? There are literally thousands of candidates with those ECs, that class rank, and better SATs. I don't buy it. If her school really was that competitive, it would have been reflected in her standarized testing school. I would understand if some of the scores were about 700. But EVERY SINGLE ONE? I understand SATs a only a small part of admissions, but they still account for something. I would understand if her SATs were atrocious (which they are not) and have stellar ECs, class rank, etc., and got a likely letter. but overall, she just seems to be a mediocre applicant!</p>
<p>If Savvy wants to give a real explanation I'm all for it. I'm not trying to be mean to anyone, just trying to make sense out of this. Good luck to all applicants.</p>
<p>wow, maybe if you read my stats, you'll think I was mediocre for Harvard too. Therein lies the rub. It's not about how perfect our scores or how grandious/nationally recognized our activities may be. Harvard can pick whoever they want. They could admit an entire class of 1600s/2400s or an entire class of valedictorians, or an entire class of white males. But if they want variety, and if they think savvy is a good match for them (which is what the likely letter says) than by all means.</p>
<p>My friend got into yale with 1400 sat's, about 10th in the class of 70, and 4's on 2 AP's. Personality! That's my call. Or maybe I will go intern in the admissions office....at any school....je ne sais pas</p>
<p>Ahhh, yes. If you´re going to accuse me of being egotistical, I can assure you that usually I don´t mean it (and I NEVER try to imply or flaunt my superiority in any way) but in that case (the astro post) what I said was relevant to the conversation there (if I recall correctly) and I do believe it´s true. It´s not a statement about how great I am or anything of the like, it´s a statement about the state of high school research in astronomy. It isn´t easy to get a good project in the field and I had to work extremely hard to get one. That being said, I do apologize if that came across as bragging or my flaunting myself as ¨God´s gift to man¨ because I can assure you I don´t see myself as such and never try to. Note that I didn´t present myself in such a light (or at least tried not to, and again I apologize if I did), I just gave the facts. </p>
<p>The truth is I´m really not that full of myself. But apparently at times it comes across that way. Desert, I don´t blame it on jealousy because I certainly see where people are coming from. Just know that that isn´t the real me. So, sorry. Katerila et al....friends? ;)</p>
<p>By the way, is it just me or is it a bit odd that some people have all this time to dig back deep into my post history to find this stuff?</p>
<p>bobbob--Thank you, by the way, but I have very little confidence about my chances at Harvard :p I know I have a shot but a lot of people here seem to like my chances better than I do...lol</p>
<p>cosar, by the way, is right (speaking about savvy, not me :p). It isn´t all about scores. Only half of the 1600s got in the past few years, that should be very telling. No, I don´t think a good essay alone will warrant a likely letter on the basis of its writing, but it can, when combined with a good interview and good recs, and when it shows that the candidate is truly unique. Besides the fact that savvy, from the few PMs I´ve had with her, seems like a genuinely NICE person, she is valedictorian not just as Average Schmoe High but at an elite school with plenty of other competition. There is only so far a good SAT can take you. It´s a morning or two taking a test--not the Ultimate Measure of Intelligence.</p>
<p>I hate to imply anything but I wonder what the average SAT of the posters saying she didn´t deserve the letter (based on her scores) is.</p>
<p>C'mon guys. They won't give out a likely based on PERSONALITY. That's complete joke! What, it was determined by a 30 minute interview that she was a nice girl? Give me a break! 99% of applicants are reasonably nice. </p>
<p>I'm not saying she shouldn't have gotten into Harvard. She certainly didn't seems like a shoo-in based on stats, but I would understand if someone like that got in normally. But she is the top .5% of all applicants? Someone who is "nice," a captain of one sport, has a job, and is of middling intelligence for the Harvard applicant pool?</p>
<p>An interview is not a hook. Any interviewer from Harvard will tell you not matter how awesome your interview is, there is a 99% that it will not get you admitted, much less a likely. **BESIDES SHE SAID SHE HAD ONLY JUST HAD HER INTERVIEW, SO IT DID NOT COUNT FOR HER. **</p>
<p>We don't dig back into your posts, they're just everywhere on this board and it's inevitable to see them. And I am not trying to judge you, you do seem nice, I like you, just try to be more humble and you'll feel a lot better about yourself.</p>
<p>Desert I am very curious what do you know about admissions and how on earth are you so sure you know what's good for Harvard</p>
<p>If you were to ask me who is more worthy of admission to Harvard, an applicant with a 2400 composite SAT or an applicant with a 2100 composite SAT, I would respond that you have not given me sufficient information to make an informed judgment. Thankfully, Harvard views it the same way.</p>
<p>While I am not a member of the Harvard adcom, I have talked with and listened to a number of Harvard adcom members over the last couple of years (including the Dean), and it seems to me that savvy fits nicely into what they are looking for at least based on the partial info she has posted on these boards.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Class rank a far more important indicator of academic performance than SATs, and viewed that way by the Harvard adcom, at least when dealing with a strong school that has a track record with Harvard. Trust me, being ranked number 1 in the class at Lynn Classical is a major accomplishment.</p></li>
<li><p>SES the fact that neither of savvys parents attended college says something about the socio part of SES. The fact that she has worked throughout high school allows an inference as to the economic part of SES. This is clearly a targeted group for Harvard. It also says something about overcoming obstacles Harvard will look at the SAT scores achieved by someone with this type of background differently than SAT scores achieved by someone who has likely had extensive prepping and tutoring.</p></li>
<li><p>Passionate about science has anyone been following the (amazingly still continuing) flap over Summers comments about women in science? Obviously another targeted group for Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>ECs I agree that there are many Harvard applicants who have equivalent ECs. But savvys ECs are substantial and clearly represent a significant time commitment. Combined with the time commitment involved in working a job throughout high school, it increases the impressiveness of her academic achievements. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Add to this strong recs and essays, and you have the makings of an admit decision. As for why this was translated into a likely letter, Id only be speculating. But Harvard (like other schools) uses likely letters as a recruiting tool. I would not be at all surprised if they knew savvy was already admitted EA to Stanford. The adcom started meeting Feb. 1 if they got to savvys application, concluded that she should be admitted, and knew that Stanford already had a two-month head start on recruiting her, they may have decided that they didnt want to wait until the end of March to start doing their own recruiting.</p>
<p>Finally, apologies to savvy for the unseemly spectacle of a bunch of strangers debating her merits on an internet chat board. My advice is that she should not bother entering the fray here she doesnt need to prove anything to us.</p>
<p>I have several things I want to say.<br>
1. If she was so intelligent, as shown by her class rank, her SAT and SAT II scores would have been much higher. Heck, she should have score near 800 in at least one subject. The fact that her SAT and SAT II scores are weak points to a uncompetitive school.</p>
<p>And really, with your list, that doesn't produce a magic formula for acceptance. Even that list can define hundreds if not over a thousand applicants. Valedictorians? Check, 3000 of them, most of them probably from schools with harder ciricumlums, as seen by better SATs. Women? That leaves about 1500(+?). Interested in the sciences? I can only speculate, but probably 500+ are left. From that 500, I would bet most have A) better ECs B) better SATs or C)possible URM status.<br>
I agree with desertman that something seems fishy here.</p>
<p>I agree. I and a few others are trying to base this off of stats and facts, which indicates she is unqualified for a likely. Some other people are using speculation to say she is qualified.</p>
<p>"and I NEVER try to imply or flaunt my superiority in any way,"</p>
<p>thus implying superiority. I'm sorry, I know you're in a pickle and are being unfairly accused. Still the language you use makes others feel the way they do; it's just an unfortunate fact of language imprecision.</p>
<p>The facts:
A- she got a likely (if we assume she is telling the truth...dubious)
B- her stats (these can be taken pretty confidently as true)
C- typical Harvard admission standards, like SAT percentiles</p>
<p>Comparing C to B leads one to question the validity of A. No 'speculation'.</p>