<p>At one point our Verizon plan did include unlimited IN calling, and then at the last update (adding North America plan), it morphed into 1,000 minutes of IN calling</p>
<p>I don't think your original plan can change- just as if you take out a loan and it is sold your agreement doesnt change
They do make "mistakes" however, I would read teh fine print and make sure they aren't trying to pull one over on you</p>
<p>emeraldkity, you're right about that; I should check it out. I just HATE getting on the phone with Verizon -- they're so darned departmentalized and nobody seems to know whose issue it really is (I tried switching to their Internet provider service to save a couple of bucks, discovered it was clunky and unreliable, issued a cancellation and then went through hours of negotiations and cross-checking to be sure we didn't accidentally lose an important dial-up mailbox ... and so on). However, reluctantly, I think Verizon is within its rights here. By switching from domestic to North America service we probably lost the "promotional" deal we'd signed up for originally. I know it added two years to the service agreement.</p>
<p>When we were over billed $200, I started to handle it over the phone, but decided to go to the Verizon store to sort out the issues. Even the person helping me became confused with the billing depts' double speak. I described the issues on this thread earlier, and Verizon admitted to having had this problem with several customers. We received our $200 credit a few days ago!</p>
<p>Yes celloguy - communication is the key. First time my son ran up text message $$$s he said - oh I thought we had a (text) plan. We had never had a problem with minutes used till lately (had accumulated quite a few roll over minutes in fact). Last month I happened to check the bill on line and we were over our minutes and through quite a few rollover minutes. Oh I didn't know there was a limit. I may or may not have explained all this when we first got the phones (I think there is a teenage equivilant to senior moments where they 'forget' stuff they would rather not know - unintentionally of course) - it was never really an issue with him as he is not usually a big phone talker. But a quick explanation of the difference between mobile to mobile minutes and anytime seems to have taken care of it. Our cell phone usage for both kids seems to have a direct correlation to the current girlfriend/boyfriend situation. Fortunately Ds b/f has cingular also - though she did get to hand us a chunk of change for calls she made to him during her girl scout trip to Europe last summer! I have my senior moments too but I made darn sure I explained that one in advance.</p>
<p>I think that Verizon is very slick about the changes and you have to be VERY careful whenever you update their service. I have used them for years and had a few problems like this - It happens very easily.
They recently called me to try to get me to switch to a new plan that would give me more minutes. I asked multiple times if I would be losing anything if I switched and was told no. I was hesitant because I vaguely remembered a friend warning me of something like your experience. Now I am glad I did hesitate because I really count on those unlimited IN calling minutes!! Your story could probably save a lot of us some headaches - thanks.
And to the poster above who had a clerical error on their bill - the same thing happened to me a couple of years ago when I added a line. Somehow they forgot to put the free weekends back on the account and my first bill was $500!!
I almost had a heart attack, but fortunately it only took one phone call to figure out what happened and get it corrected.</p>
<p>oh changing your plan at all, does extend your length of contract- however- if you want to change providers- there is a place where you can find people to assume the rest of your contract for you
<a href="http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/index.cfm?story=20060713%5B/url%5D">http://www.smartmoney.com/consumer/index.cfm?story=20060713</a>
( I found it yesterday- we are getting close to the end of our contract with verizon & while supposedly their reception is better than most- although I havent been too thrilled with it, I hate all their extra charges and their deteriorating customer service- im thinking of going without a contract- and waiting for the iphone )
<B</p>
<p>I still use dial up unlimited internet access for $20, and if I take my corded phone to another state and plug it into a jack it will work.</p>
<p>I want my cell phone to be able to use other towers- to not be disconnected randomly- to not be charged for a call as soon as I dial the number, instead of when the other line picks up & I want a customer service rep to be able to hear what I am saying, not repeat the same line, because they don't know what else to do.</p>
<p>( I can't update my OTA- #228, and when I called they told me I must be too far away from a tower even though I had 5 bars- incidentally- you are supposed to do that with Verizon every few weeks, so your phone isn't wasting battery by looking for a tower)</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments about Verizon. We've had Verizon phones for years through a third-party reseller and are now switching to Verizon directly because of a "too good to refuse" discount available through TheMom's employer...and transferring over is an ongoing headache that's taken five days and counting. I hope that today is the day.</p>
<p>As far as "family money" goes, however, I think it's important to get children their own "pair of pants with pockets" as early as possible, with bigger pockets as they grow. The more financial issues they can navigate on their own, including budgeting, the better off they will be in the long run. Imho.</p>
<p>TheDad: I completely agree with you. As soon as I got my first job, my parents have told me to use my money to pay for things, and have gradually cut back on what they pay for, to the point where now they only cover my housing and tuition (still huge amounts of money). Now, I have complete control over my credit cards and bank accounts and investments. They give advice when I ask for it (especially about investing) but mostly just let me deal with it myself.</p>
<p>I agree with that very much, TheDad.</p>
<p>Okay, I hear you about teaching kids how to budget. That's never been a problem in our family -- it's understood money is tight and nobody spends frivolously. I know many people believe an "allowance" is good for teaching kids how to handle money. It's just never seemed right for us -- whenever the subject came up in family meetings, the kids volunteered that it would just be silly because the money was all coming out of the same kitty. The grownups decide whether $40 for a concert is doable or the money is needed for essentials. Our EFC for two kids in school right now is about $10,000, plus airfare/transportation for holidays, plus books, toiletries, warmer clothes for a colder climate, etc., etc. -- oh yeah, and telephone. There's no way work study and a summer job are going to cover those expenses, and it would be disingenuous to pretend it could. We think it's more honest to just acknowledge that and eliminate the bean counting.</p>
<p>CG, it's not a question of honesty, it's a question of assuming responsibility for one's self to the degree possible. You're right: work study and a summer job aren't going to cover all those expenses. But you should be able to work out what expenses they <em>do</em> cover and then those items become the responsibility of the student. For even high school students, the choice between sticking $X into savings for some deferred gratification now or buying a CD or having lunch with a friend, spending their own money and making choices and experiencing opportunity cost are all lessons that can't be learned too early. I think that opportunity cost was something my D was actually taught in class in 5th grade, though as she just said, "I think it's something I've always understood."</p>
<p>RK, we're on a similar track with our D. The future is still nebulous because the prospects of gap job/law school/grad school and in what sequence are unclear. The parental subsidies will necessarily and appropiately diminish but we will try to take circumstances into account and be "reasonable."</p>
<p>
[quote]
But you should be able to work out what expenses they <em>do</em> cover and then those items become the responsibility of the student
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.</p>
<p>On a side note, since you mention "experiencing opportunity cost" -- D got an A and a 5 in AP Econ without bothering to go to class (she claimed the teacher was ... mmmm ... suboptimally placed teaching that class) so she must have absorbed the principles at least.</p>
<p>well to go off the subject for a min
EFC doesn't include money from workstudy
Workstudy is part of the finaid package- & while it does "count" on your taxes, it doesn't count as income for FAFSA
D only worked about 10 hours or so, ( well depending) at her workstudy job, (and she really liked all of her workstudy jobs, her last one even gave her background on a future career)- that paid for personal expenses and books.
She was also able to earn money summers, which went toward the EFC, and reduced loans.
Still if your EFC is only $10,000 for two kids, and you are able to cover what the aid package doesn't, more power to you. Our EFC was quite a bit more, and we needed D to help with that.</p>
<p>emeraldkity, sorry if I was unclear. The kids DO help. Their income from babysitting, etc., goes toward the "general fund," in the sense that they spend it on whatever needs to be paid for at the time. It's just that, as a family, we regard ALL expenses as family expenses and ALL income as family income; we don't put much effort into pigeonholing. Everything is communal. I realize this might seem a little weird to some people, but it works for us. Maybe, if we had lots of discretionary money, we'd run into disagreements about where to put it (I'm starting to get hints of this from the "baby," though his high school's ethos is "needs not wants" and that seems to be getting through to him). So far, we all seem to agree. </p>
<p>Funny thing, though, I got a phone call from my own mom asking me to withdraw a "birthday present" for myself from our joint account. I tried to gently kid her about that -- she's on a small pension and must realize that I'll end up subsidizing her living expenses -- that's why I've set up her savings account so that I can manage it. But in the end I just thanked her graciously and agreed to withdraw a small amount. While to me it seems more honest to treat family income/expenses jointly, that doesn't work for everyone.</p>
<p>When my d was small, I started reading about allowances and money management. There were ideas of giving $1 per year of age; paying for chores done; not paying for chores done but giving a weekly allowance; giving a lump sum to the kid to buy clothes; parents buy clothes but kids buy pizza; etc. etc. The one thing that came through clearly is that each family must decide what works best for itself. </p>
<p>My approach mirrors celloguy's, and my d has always been fiscally responsible. She doesn't spend unreasonably no matter which pocket the money comes out of. Having d work part-time during the school year didn't happen because we decided that it was more important that she volunteer to be an assistant teacher in her dance studio. During the summer, we decided as a family that it was more important for her to attend various programs than work. These are not decisions that would work for everyone.</p>
<p>Not all of raising a child is about what works now, it's also about preparing them for a variety of circumstances in the future, including independence. If your D ever moves to another city, has a job and economic life separate from the communal, good luck to her. </p>
<p>And, no offense meant, but the recurring "honesty" issue is totally off the wall from my perspective. Hell, TheMom and I have a joint account, TheMom has a separate account for handling expenses such as grocery shopping, clothing for her & D, etc., but there's in no way anything dishonest about the arrangement. For peculiar reasons, the D has wound up with two checking accounts, one near her college and one that's national/international. She's also clear on what expenses are hers and if something in the gray area comes up, we talk about it. Funny, but I almost had to beg her to let us underwrite the purchase of a suit during her internship and she gave in only when she got the tab for shipping all the excess stuff back home from her apartment at the end. No "dishonesty" implicit in any of that.</p>
<p>Chedva, D did not work in high school for reasons that were similarly sufficient for us and at that time she had an allowance with which she was expected to pick up relatively minor things for herself. Once the income came, so did responsibilities.</p>
<p>Sorry, TheDad, but I was raised the same way I am raising my d, with "family" money - different pockets, same pants, and my economic life is just fine. We have no debt other than our mortgage (cars are all paid for, credit cards paid in full each month, and the only other long-term debt I ever had were my student loans). We receive no funds from anyone other than the typical birthday gifts and such. We have saved for D's college, and if necessary, will pay full cost for any school she wishes to attend. So please do not lecture me that I don't know how to raise a financially responsible child.</p>
<p>
You're the one who started the thread upset about the cell phone bill. And then balked at the suggestion that the kid pay the overage. (So if it ain't broke, why ask for our help? The answer is that the rest of us expect our kids to work and to pay). </p>
<p>A kid who works for their own money can quickly do the math -- if the work study job pays $8 an hour and the bill for overage on the cell phone use is $25 -- well then, the equation becomes: was it worth 3 hours working to pay for those calls and text messages?</p>
<p>When kids are working and are expected to reimburse parents for expenses occasioned by their own actions, there is very little to debate -- I used to get bills, mark them up, and hand them to my daughter and tell her what she owed. This allowed us to essentially share a credit card account for years. I simply would look at the bill and figure out what my daughter owed me and ask for the money. She was happy because she had the full use of a credit card and didn't have to ask permission every time she decided she needed another new pair of shoes. </p>
<p>I'd also like to note that the earning capacity of kids increases with their work experience -- my d's work study only pays $7/hour, but she has found a 2nd job where she can earn more than $20/hour, plus tips. Experience counts, both in terms of the employer's view of the resume, and in terms of the kid's job-hunting skills. My d. was the first one on her floor to get a work study job at her school, because she was out networking and lining up work even before the school held the first meeting for work-study jobs. A kid who spent a summer pounding the pavement looking for work as a teenager has already learned a valuable lesson about getting a jump on the competition; down the line, the kid has the work experience to qualify for a higher paying position. Even if you look at the whole thing as a communal, family pot-- the communal group as a whole is strengthened when its members have a higher earning capacity. (I have something of a modified approach that involves more individual accountability, but to the extent that there is a communal approach, then I am a strong believer in the concept that each will contribute to the extent of their abilities).</p>
<p>celloguy:</p>
<p>I hear where you come from. We gave our kids an allowance and they were not expected to work for pocket money or anything else. Fortunately, they've never been profligate, so it did not cause problems. This year, however, my S had the opportunity to get a job at school that takes up about 10-15 hours a week. He took it not for the money but for the experience. He has grown tremendously in that semester not just in the way he handles money but also in the way he discharges his responsibilities, interacts with profs and other students. As well, some lessons about how to handle credit cards, putting money into savings accounts, making sure that there is enough money in his checking account to cover debit card outgoings, all these have become more concrete to him, whereas before, they were just something he heard from us. He's signed up to work for another semester.
The money is welcome, but I think the continued experience is even more valuable. It's also teaching him to husband his time more wisely.
To sum up, there are advantages to asking kids to earn their own money besides the money itself, even if parents can well afford to cover all their kids' expenses. Finally, your D might be very proud that she earned the money herself!</p>