<p>Okay, Dad. I totally understand that your culture and ours are different, and that's fine. Whatever you're doing is clearly working for you.</p>
<p>But please understand that I've been at this for a while -- I have grandchildren nearing high school age -- and my grown kids have managed perfectly well in the real world (the eldest started his own successful business just out of college and I'm relying on him to save me from homelessness in my dotage). I'm confident it works for us.</p>
<p>By "honesty," I wasn't referring to any sort of cheating or stealing, but rather to disingenuous ("lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity") discussion of the family finances. I meant to express the importance to me of honest communication within the family, wherein we all acknowledge how it really works. To "give" an allowance, earmarked for whatever expenses the grownups decide is appropriate, is a strategy many parents use to teach responsibility; to my mind, in our particular circumstances, it would be less than totally honest to suggest that, for example, making D pay her own cell phone bill would be truly meaningful. The kids have great crap detectors, and they'd nail me in a minute.</p>
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ou're the one who started the thread upset about the cell phone bill. And then balked at the suggestion that the kid pay the overage. (So if it ain't broke, why ask for our help? The answer is that the rest of us expect our kids to work and to pay).
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<p>Calmom, you're right. I did. Sorry. It was a mistake. As I said, I was shocked and dismayed when I saw the minutes. The choices I laid out were to shut down her phone or wait and see if the problem went away. When I came to my senses (and thank you Marite and others), I realized the fault was my own in failing to note Verizon's new IN limitation. So that problem is behind me.</p>
<p>I keep thrashing away at this thread because I can't seem to make my words clear. I'm a writer, so this frustrates me. I've got TheDad thinking I'm somehow accusing others of theft, when that notion never entered my head. I've tried to patiently explain that our family dynamic around money hasn't harmed the kids -- they're smart, responsible, competent folks. But many posters keep hammering away on how D needs to be taught fiscal responsibility -- my gosh, there never was such a careful consumer. How can I make that clear?</p>
<p>marite, the work study job is a fine idea, and I do think D will take one on in the future. We didn't encourage that for her very first semester at college, when pacing herself with academics, dance, orchestra, and new friendships seemed more critical. I do think she'll take on a work study opportunity in the community, assisting a teacher. She has done a good bit of that as a volunteer, apparently is good at it, and would be pleased to have the income. Also, she does have a bank account and a credit card, but the former is very modest (pizza money and incidentals), while I pay the latter. Also, she's taking a slightly lighter load this Spring, so that might free up a little time. Why does everybody want to be so hard on her? She's doing great!</p>
<p>Celloguy, count yourself blessed for having a communicative D. Would you exchange her for one of my monosyllabic sons? :)
I did not suggest to my S that he work in his first year, either. Not that he could have done the work he is currently doing. But as I said, he has found the experience enriching academically and financially. It's great as well that he can contemplate incurring expenses without worrying about our reaction, such as an expensive trip.
Since this is your D's first year, let her be. Suggest that she may want to investigate work-study opportunities this coming semester or next year. And continue to be proud of her!</p>
<p>Cellloguy, you are entitled to follow whatever practices you want in terms of money and how it is disseminated in your family... but I notice that you have pretty much resolved the issue in your own mind by rationalizing things in such a way that it makes your daughter's overage your fault (because you didn't check to see how Verizon was billing you).</p>
<p>Those of us who expect our older teenage and adult students to contribute through their earnings don't see the overall distribution of responsibility in the same way. I mean... if my daughter makes a costly mistake, whether it is a cell phone overage or a parking ticket, I don't see how her ignorance makes the expense my fault. If I feel sympathetic to her plight, I might pick up the cost -- although more typically if t seems like an "innocent" mistake or misunderstanding, we split the cost 50/50. </p>
<p>Earning their own money also meant my kids had more freedom to decide how to spend it. My daughter can opt to spend money on whatever she wants while she is attending school in Manhattan, where obviously there are plenty of things to spend money on. I am glad that I don't have to be involved in her decisions as to whether to eat out or attend a show or travel to Boston to visit her boyfriend -- those are all the sort of extravagances that I would feel terribly conflicted about if I was holding the purse strings. I'm not sure it would be fun for her if she had to ask, explain, or justify those sorts of expenses to me -- I mean, we'd end up arguing about the frequency of the travel or the meals out, and that would just inject unnecessary tension into our relationship. </p>
<p>I don't think this has much to do with determining whether a child will be financially responsible or not -- as far as I can tell, that's more a matter of inborn personality traits than childrearing practices. My daughter is a big spender, by my standards -- one more reason to put her in charge of her own finances. Not to teach her a lesson, but simply to let her deal with the problem. She's not irresponsible, she just has a very different attitude toward money than I do. But if she can earn and pay her own way, it doesn't matter -- she'll just know that she needs to earn enough to support the lifestyle she wants.</p>
<p>There seems to be an assumption that the "family funds" concept that I and celloguy (seems) to use is synonymous with "fiscal irresponsibility" or "non-contributions" on the part of the kids. At least in my family, this is completely untrue. My d may in fact have a truer picture of our family's finances, since they were never artificially divided into "ours" and "hers". We have taught her what we can and cannot afford; we have taught her the consequences of various financial decisions. She babysits and uses that money as her "walking around" money, and she knows that the well is not limitless. She's heard more "no" than "yes" when it's come to money. She knows there's a trade-off: If we buy this, we can't buy that. Maybe she understands well because we live in a community in which we have the smaller house, the older cars, and live well below the lifestyle of most of her friends. But it didn't matter that the question was never "her" money or "my" money, but "our" money.</p>
<p>As far as the benefits of working that accrue to a kid, I agree that there are many. However, I believe that my d has gained those benefits in responsibility and time management through her job as assistant teacher; the only problem is that the job does not pay anything. Does that lessen its value? Not to me or to her. I'm fortunate enough that I can afford the "luxury" of allowing her to take this job; I'm not going to penalize her for it. We decided that the benefits of learning how to teach outweighed the few bucks she could earn working at CVS. </p>
<p>We also determined as a family that she doesn't need to pay to drive our car. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I don't see the logic. If she didn't drive, I'd have to take her to these places, spending the same amount of gas, and spending my own time as well. So her driving is actually a savings for me. (The additional cost of insurance is worth her independence and my time.) One of my d's friend is responsible for all repairs & expenses associated with her car. Her car needs electrical work that's more than she can currently afford. Guess what? She's driving it anyway. I would never ask my kid to drive an unsafe car. Different families, different rules.</p>
<p>Perhaps I'd feel differently if my kid were a spendthrift. But she's not. Somehow she managed to absorb responsibility anyway, without an "allowance". I expect her to do the same in college.</p>