<p>hey does anyone know where i can find a list of the top 25 schools that have good psychology programs? or can anyone give me a list?
thanks.</p>
<p>You will probably find some schools that would interest you from this list:</p>
<p>Number of PhDs per 1000 graduates </p>
<p>Academic field: Psychology </p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database </p>
<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database<br>
Formula:
Total PhDs divided by Total Grads, multiplied by 1000<br>
Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period </p>
<p>1 Pomona College 21
2 Swarthmore College 19
3 Barnard College 19
4 Vassar College 19
5 Bryn Mawr College 17
6 Wesleyan University 16
7 Pitzer College 16
8 Brandeis University 16
9 Wellesley College 15
10 Grinnell College 15
11 Spelman College 14
12 Williams College 14
13 Clark University 14
14 Haverford College 14
15 Brown University 14
16 Smith College 14
17 Kalamazoo College 13
18 Oberlin College 13
19 Scripps College 13
20 Yale University 13
21 Duke University 13
22 Carleton College 13
23 Drew University 13
24 Rhodes College 12
25 Hendrix College 12
26 Tufts University 12
27 Antioch University, All Campuses 12
28 Davidson College 12
29 Sarah Lawrence College 12
30 University of Chicago 12
31 Hamilton College 12
32 University of Rochester 11
33 Amherst College 11
34 Trinity University 11
35 Southwestern University 11
36 Austin College 11
37 Bennington College 11
38 Reed College 11
39 Emory University 11
40 Union College (Schenectady, NY) 11
41 Denison University 10
42 St John's College (both campus) 10
43 Kenyon College 10
44 Mount Holyoke College 10
45 Bates College 10
46 Occidental College 10
47 Franklin and Marshall College 10
48 Stanford University 10
49 Cornell University, All Campuses 10
50 Knox College 10
51 Allegheny College 10
52 Wake Forest University 9
53 Hope College 9
54 Earlham College 9
55 Beloit College 9
56 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 9
57 Birmingham Southern College 9
58 Trinity College (Hartford, CT) 9
59 University of California-San Francisco 9
60 University of Pennsylvania 9
61 Benedictine College 9
62 Washington University 9
63 University of PR Rio Piedras Campus 9
64 Muhlenberg College 9
65 Agnes Scott College 9
66 Connecticut College 9
67 Harvard University 8
68 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 8
69 Mills College 8
70 Colgate University 8
71 Rice University 8
72 College of the Holy Cross 8
73 Bard College 8
74 University of California-Irvine 8
75 SUNY at Binghamton 8
76 Carroll College (Waukesha, WI) 8
77 Macalester College 8
78 Hanover College 8
79 Randolph-Macon Woman's College 8
80 Dartmouth College 8
81 University of California-Los Angeles 8
82 Transylvania University 8
83 Furman University 8
84 Bowdoin College 7
85 University of California-San Diego 7
86 Columbia University in the City of New York 7
87 Whitman College 7
88 University of California-Santa Cruz 7
89 Northwestern Univ 7
90 Bucknell University 7
91 University of Dallas 7
92 Princeton University 7
93 Hampshire College 7
94 Pacific Union College 7
95 Fisk University 7
96 University of Denver 7
97 Chatham College 7
98 Southern Methodist University 7
99 Gettysburg College 7
100 Johns Hopkins University 7
101 Skidmore College 7
102 University of Notre Dame 7
103 Tougaloo College 7
104 Nebraska Wesleyan University 7
105 Goshen College 7
106 Bethany College (Bethany, WV) 7
107 College of William and Mary 7</p>
<p>what are the numbers besides the schools?</p>
<p>The number of students who went on to get a Psych PhD per 1000 graduates of the school, over the most recent 10 year period.</p>
<p>So, if a school had 10,000 graduates in ten years and 70 of them went on to get Psych PhDs, the number would be 7 PhDs in sociology for every 1000 graduates. </p>
<p>It's mostly a measure of research and/or academic career paths. Other schools may focus more on social work/counseling careers.</p>
<p>But, it at least provides some insight into effective programs and the relative interest in psych at various schools. </p>
<p>The list is useful because there are so many different kinds of schools: big, small, selective, less selective, east, west, etc.</p>
<p>The biggest weakness of this kind of list is that huge state universities tend to be underrepresented. Their large student populations tend to include smaller percentages of students going to get PhDs period. If a large state university appears in the top 50 for a field, you can assume that the department is pretty darn good.</p>
<p>ah yeah i was wondering why most of the schools were colleges. haha thanks!</p>
<p>
[quote]
i was wondering why most of the schools were colleges.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's the case in virtually all fields. Liberal art colleges, for example, are significantly overrepresented in producing science and math PhDs, too.</p>
<p>I guess it's partly a reflection on the students who choose these schools and partly a reflection on the style of teaching -- small classes, mentoring interaction with professors, undergraduate research opportunities. They just produce a lot of researcher/academic types.</p>
<p>Obviously, the tech schools produce a ton of future PhDs, too.</p>
<p>I think it's more that these types tend to enroll more at LAC's. In absolute numbers you still are more likely to find a UCB or UM ug getting a PhD at you name it grad school than from ANY LAC</p>
<p>Yes. But, that's not the proper comparison. UMich has 15 times more undergrads than the typical LAC. So the question would be whether there are more UMich PhD candidates than there are from any fifteen LACs.</p>
<p>5.8% of UMich graduates went on to get PhDs over the most recent 10 year period (3134 of them).</p>
<p>At one of the LACs, 21.1% of the grads got PhDs over the same period (770 from one school alone).</p>
<p>Here are the top 100 per capita PhD producers:</p>
<p>Academic field: ALL </p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database </p>
<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database<br>
Percentage of graduates receiving a doctorate degree.<br>
Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period</p>
<p>Note: Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law. </p>
<p>1 California Institute of Technology 35.8%
2 Harvey Mudd College 24.7%
3 Swarthmore College 21.1%
4 Reed College 19.9%
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 18.3%
6 Carleton College 16.8%
7 Bryn Mawr College 15.8%
8 Oberlin College 15.7%
9 University of Chicago 15.3%
10 Yale University 14.5%
11 Princeton University 14.3%
12 Harvard University 14.3%
13 Grinnell College 14.1%
14 Haverford College 13.8%
15 Pomona College 13.8%
16 Rice University 13.1%
17 Williams College 12.7%
18 Amherst College 12.4%
19 Stanford University 11.4%
20 Kalamazoo College 11.3%
21 Wesleyan University 11.0%
22 St John's College (both campus) 10.6%
23 Brown University 10.6%
24 Wellesley College 10.4%
25 Earlham College 10.0%
26 Beloit College 9.6%
27 Lawrence University 9.5%
28 Macalester College 9.3%
29 Cornell University, All Campuses 9.0%
30 Bowdoin College 9.0%
31 Mount Holyoke College 8.9%
32 Smith College 8.9%
33 Vassar College 8.8%
34 Case Western Reserve University 8.7%
35 Johns Hopkins University 8.7%
36 St Olaf College 8.7%
37 Hendrix College 8.7%
38 Hampshire College 8.6%
39 Trinity University 8.5%
40 Knox College 8.5%
41 Duke University 8.5%
42 Occidental College 8.4%
43 University of Rochester 8.3%
44 College of Wooster 8.3%
45 Barnard College 8.3%
46 Bennington College 8.2%
47 Columbia University in the City of New York 8.1%
48 Whitman College 8.0%
49 University of California-Berkeley 7.9%
50 College of William and Mary 7.9%</p>
<p>51 Carnegie Mellon University 7.8%
52 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 7.8%
53 Brandeis University 7.7%
54 Dartmouth College 7.6%
55 Wabash College 7.5%
56 Bates College 7.5%
57 Davidson College 7.5%
58 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 7.2%
59 Franklin and Marshall College 7.2%
60 Fisk University 7.1%
61 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 7.1%
62 University of California-San Francisco 6.8%
63 Allegheny College 6.8%
64 Furman University 6.6%
65 University of Pennsylvania 6.5%
66 Washington University 6.5%
67 Bard College 6.5%
68 Northwestern Univ 6.4%
69 Rhodes College 6.4%
70 Agnes Scott College 6.3%
71 Spelman College 6.3%
72 Antioch University, All Campuses 6.2%
73 Kenyon College 6.2%
74 University of Dallas 6.2%
75 Ripon College 6.1%
76 Colorado College 6.1%
77 Bethel College (North Newton, KS) 6.1%
78 Hamilton College 6.0%
79 Goshen College 6.0%
80 Middlebury College 6.0%
81 Erskine College 6.0%
82 University of the South 5.9%
83 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 5.8%
84 Drew University 5.8%
85 Wake Forest University 5.8%
86 Tougaloo College 5.8%
87 Goucher College 5.8%
88 Chatham College 5.7%
89 Cooper Union 5.7%
90 Alfred University, Main Campus 5.7%
91 Tufts University 5.7%
92 University of California-Santa Cruz 5.6%
93 Colgate University 5.6%
94 Colby College 5.5%
95 Bucknell University 5.4%
96 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 5.4%
97 Concordia Teachers College 5.4%
98 University of Virginia, Main Campus 5.4%
99 Sarah Lawrence College 5.3%
100 Southwestern University 5.3%</p>
<p>Same database, but sorted by raw totals. First number is the total number of undergrad degrees awarded at each school over the 10 year period. The number after the college name is the total number of PhDs (and equivalent doctorate degrees) earned by those graduates:</p>
<p>56,363 University of California-Berkeley 4,470
53,612 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 3,134
33,736 Cornell University, All Campuses 3,033
61,136 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 2,931
58,176 University of Wisconsin-Madison 2,667
73,365 University of Texas at Austin 2,613
17,855 Harvard University 2,545
79,507 Pennsylvania State U, Main Campus 2,519
54,970 University of California-Los Angeles 2,454
11,348 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 2,078
57,165 Brigham Young University, Main Campus 2,049
52,518 University of Minnesota - Twin Cities 1,970
67,393 Michigan State University 1,917
16,662 Stanford University 1,894
12,941 Yale University 1,877
69,239 Ohio State University, Main Campus 1,876
57,978 University of Florida 1,863
38,488 University of California-Davis 1,829
68,093 Texas A&M University Main Campus 1,770
25,853 University of Pennsylvania 1,688
53,192 Purdue University, Main Campus 1,654
30,559 University of California-San Diego 1,624
51,837 Rutgers the State Univ of NJ New Brunswick 1,607
51,689 University of Maryland at College Park 1,592
11,101 Princeton University 1,585
61,290 University of Washington - Seattle 1,580
51,040 Indiana University at Bloomington 1,575
29,049 University of Virginia, Main Campus 1,567
14,669 Brown University 1,554
41,410 University of Colorado at Boulder 1,510
35,755 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1,453
39,199 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State Univ 1,386
45,998 University of Arizona 1,356
15,531 Duke University 1,313
19,770 Northwestern Univ 1,273
39,705 University of Massachusetts at Amherst 1,265
8,270 University of Chicago 1,263
39,182 University of California-Santa Barbara 1,251
21,761 University of California-Santa Cruz 1,209
31,600 SUNY at Buffalo 1,169
38,894 Iowa State University 1,164
34,586 Boston University 1,144
35,343 University of Iowa 1,138
51,180 Florida State University 1,110
7,067 Oberlin College 1,107
13,622 Columbia University in the City of New York 1,101
34,660 University of Missouri, Columbia 1,086
29,534 University of California-Irvine 1,077
22,853 University of PR Rio Piedras Campus 1,034
45,641 University of Georgia 1,011
12,784 College of William and Mary 1,005
62,660 Arizona State University Main 985
11,830 University of Rochester 983
19,161 University of Notre Dame 983
28,839 University of Nebraska at Lincoln 978
33,232 University of Kansas, Main Campus 952
33,250 University of Tennessee at Knoxville 951
36,418 North Carolina State University at Raleigh 929
30,609 University of Delaware 921
34,763 Miami University, All Campuses 904
13,887 Washington University 897
31,176 University of Pittsburgh Main Campus 881
32,432 Colorado State University 847
31,094 Louisiana State Univ & Agric & Mechanical Col 844
6,432 Rice University 842
30,099 New York University 842
32,735 University of Utah 834
10,684 Dartmouth College 817
50,140 San Diego State University 814
9,260 Johns Hopkins University 805
50,222 University of South Florida 794
22,484 SUNY at Binghamton 793
37,770 Auburn University, Main Campus 786
7,081 Wesleyan University 780
25,288 SUNY at Albany 775
3,657 Swarthmore College 770
4,561 Carleton College 766
30,443 University of Connecticut 764
18,825 Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus 757
21,633 Baylor University 756
46,872 Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 752
21,999 SUNY at Stony Brook, All Campuses 751
2,059 California Institute of Technology 738
9,428 Carnegie Mellon University 736
23,986 University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus 718
9,834 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 712
12,422 Tufts University 702
15,251 Georgetown University 699
26,724 Oklahoma State University, All Campuses 692
32,825 University of Southern California 692
28,573 University of Kentucky 690
29,602 University of Cincinnati, All Campuses 687
28,782 University of Oregon 683
30,192 University of South Carolina at Columbia 680
33,142 Texas Tech University 678
24,097 University of New Mexico, All Campuses 674
34,167 Ohio University, All Campuses 667
33,342 Temple University 664
32,560 University of Houston 647
5,082 Williams College 644
26,633 Wayne State University 641</p>
<p>Comparing LAC's and big publics on some pro rata basis is apples and oranges. They serve much different populations with different goals in college. Compare each to the same group for some meaning but don't try to mix the two and present it as some meaningful conclusion. It's just bogus. All the psychology majors graduating each year from the three largest schools would fill every psychology PhD slot in the US.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Comparing LAC's and big publics on some pro rata basis is apples and oranges. They serve much different populations with different goals in college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly. And one of the ways potential applicants can better understand the very different options available is to look at a range of statistics for the various types of schools.</p>
<p>For example, if you look at NCAA football statistics, the differences between large publics and small LACs is quite striking.</p>
<p>Similarly, if the you look at the percentage of grads getting PhDs.</p>
<p>Or class size statistics.</p>
<p>Or statistics on the number of different courses offered.</p>
<p>Each of those statistical measures contributes a little slice of the big picture, especially in understanding the tradeoffs inherent in each type of school.</p>
<hr>
<p>In this particular case, the only way any size school could be in the top 100 per capita producers of Psych PhDs would almost have to include some combination of a higher percentage of students studying Psych and/or at least a decent Psych department. So on an open ended question looking for schools to consider, it makes sense to throw those 100 or so names into the ring. Obviously, the request was for purposes of forming an initial list, since it had no specificity about size, location, type of school, etc.</p>
<p>"I think it's more that these types tend to enroll more at LAC's. "</p>
<p>You mean a higher percent, not more in absolute numbers. There are probably fewer such types at LACs in absolute numbers.</p>
<p>A percent is computed from a fraction consisting of both a numerator and a denominator. In the case of large universities, often the denominator will be large. In part because they may have numerous students attending special-purpose colleges that are unlikely candidates for a particular degree from the outset.</p>
<p>For example, a university having large undergraduate colleges of Agriculture and Engineering will undoubtedly appear lower on a percent ranking of future Psychology Phds than it would if the population of its Arts& Sciences College was considered in isolation. That does not mean its Arts & Sciences College is any worse a place to study Psychology than it would be if the university didn't also have these other colleges. But by the percentage method it will in fact appear to be worse.</p>
<p>I think the absolute numbers may be more revealing for many purposes on this board. An applicant wants to know that if he/she might want to get a phd in psychology in the future can the school foster that ambition. Where hundreds and even thousands have done so before, then to me that's a good indication. Even if the school is a university, and consequently others with different vocational interests are also in attendance.</p>
<p>To determine if a school has a good program in psychology one should look at the program. Number of courses offered, etc. A list comparing actual Psychology department courses offered next semester might be at least as interesting as the future PhD list. To me, anyway.</p>
<p>For [extensive] prior discussion relating to % phds see:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=140694&highlight=phDs%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=140694&highlight=phDs</a>
esp. posts# 14,18,75,81,178,187,190</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the absolute numbers may be more revealing for many purposes on this board. An applicant wants to know that if he/she might want to get a phd in psychology in the future can the school foster that ambition. Where hundreds and even thousands have done so before, then to me that's a good indication.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If that were the case, then SUNY-Buffalo would clearly be prefered for a student considering an academic/research career over Williams College. In raw numbers, SUNY-Buffalo has produced nearly twice as many PhDs over the most recent 10-year period than has Williams.</p>
<p>Yet, on average, Williams clearly has a much more concentrated focus on hard-core academics, both in the quality and interests of the student body, the resumes of the teaching staff, the per student financial resources, and the style of education. All things being equal (price, admissions, etc.), a wannabee college professor or researcher PhD would clearly choose Williams over SUNY-Buffalo. I doubt there is a single professor at SUNY-Buffalo who wouldn't advise their child to enroll at Williams in an even-up choice between the two schools.</p>
<p>This is supported by the per capita numbers. Williams students have been 3.5 times more likely to get a PhD than SUNY-Buffalo students.</p>
<p>The key is to understand that any school on the top-100 per capita producers of PhDs overall (out of 1400 some schools that have produced at least one future PhD over the last 10 years) has demonstrated the ability to foster those kinds of career options.</p>
<p>Any sensible applicant would (or should) understand the primary difference between a large public and a small private college is that the large university is comprised of many different constituencies and types of students with very different educational and career goals. That is the defining quality of a large public university. The reason that the small colleges are overrepresented in PhD production is that they cater to those types of students and those career goals. They don't have nursing programs or pharmacy programs or agriculture programs.</p>
<p>"The reason that the small colleges are overrepresented in PhD production is that they cater to those types of students and those career goals. They don't have nursing programs or pharmacy programs or agriculture programs."</p>
<p>I'd put more emphasis on the second sentence, personally. The liberal arts colleges of large universities may also cater to students with those career goals. At least mine did. It's just that in some cases they cater to other students as well. And, more particularly, the universities have other colleges which are not liberal arts colleges. Each college at a good university adequately caters to its own constituency, or tries to. It's just that at a large university only one of its several colleges is really playing the same game that the liberal arts colleges are. But that one college may be as much a player, or moreso, than many of the small schools appearing higher on the percent phd list, largely because they are not part of universities with other colleges.</p>
<p>I think it's important to draw attention to this for the benefit of applicants deciding between a standalone liberal arts college and the liberal arts college of a university that also has other colleges present. Such student should be mostly concerned with the performance of students at the college he/she is actually applying to, not some aggregate of all colleges that the university contains. Unfortunately the % data is not broken out by the separate colleges of a university, generally, it's an aggregate. This can lead to possibly misleading conclusions when comparisons are made across institutions.</p>
<p>Which is the inevitable result of the production of an ordered list with all these different schools on it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But that one college may be as much a player, or moreso, than many of the small schools appearing higher on the percent phd list, which are not part of universities with other colleges.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In some cases, that is certainly true. And, when it is, that large public U. almost always shows up on the list of top per capita PhD producers in a field. For example, UC-Berkeley and UMich consistently show up as top per capita producers. </p>
<p>Remember, there are 1400 schools that have produced at least one future PhD over the last ten years. So, any school in the top 50 is doing something right. From that list of 50 (or whatever), you pick the school that meets your other criteria: size, location, cost, campus culture, diversity, athletics, and so on and so forth. Any prospect who picks a college soley because of the Psych department is making a big mistake, IMO.</p>
<p>There's also the not insignificant matter of admissions. It's all well and good to know that Pomona or UMich have strong Psych departments. But, if you can't get into Pomona or UMich, it could be very useful to know that Agnes Scott or Muhlenburg or U of Denver or UC-Santa Cruz also are among the top per capita producers of Psych PhDs in the country. For example, what if the goal were to find a solid Psych program at a school that would offer signficant merit aid or in-state tuition to a student with 2100 SATs? These lists are just that. Lists of schools that may or may not be suitable for a particular students' consideration.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for the OP I think he/she got much more than he bargained for given this discussion. Maybe if he shows up again she/he can ask a more detailed question requesting exactly what kind of information he is requesting about undergraduate psychology programs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Such student should be mostly concerned with the performance of students at the college he/she is actually applying to, not some aggregate of all colleges that the university contains. Unfortunately the % data is not broken out by the separate colleges of a university, generally, it's an aggregate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You could easily do those calculations for any school of interest. The IPEDs database allows you to tally the number of grads in selected majors over the ten year period. </p>
<p>So, to pick two leading examples in Psychology from different ends of the size spectrum:</p>
<p>The University of Michigan graduated 5145 students majoring in Psychology over the 10 year period we've been looking at. Of those, 451 went on to get PhDs in Psychology. Thus, 8.8% of their Psych majors went on to get a PhD in Psychology.</p>
<p>Swarthmore College graduated 295 students majoring in Psychology over the 10 year period we've been looking at. Of those, 71 went on to get PhDs in Psychology. Thus, 24.1% of their Psych majors went on to get a PhD in Psychology.</p>
<p>Some fields don't lend themselves to this kind of department by department approach. For example, you would miss Math majors who got a PhD in Economics or Poli Sci majors who got a PhD in Urban Planning. But, it's probably close enough for government work.</p>
<p>It would be a little time consuming to use the IPEDs database on a department by department basis for all 1400 schools that produced a PhD over the ten year period. But, once you've whittled the list down to a dozen or two schools, it's pretty easy. </p>
<p><a href="http://caspar.nsf.gov%5B/url%5D">http://caspar.nsf.gov</a></p>
<p>BTW, these two examples are obviously going to provide very different undergrad psych experiences: one averaging 515 psych majors per year; the other averaging 30 psych majors a year. One will obviously have an order of magnitude more courses; the other will provide an experience where the typical psych major is likely to be on a first name basis with all of the faculty in the department. Apples and oranges. Both are tasty fruit.</p>
<p>BTW #2, in both examples above, the PhD percentage for Psych is higher than the schools' overall PhD production rate. This would suggest that Psych is a particular strength at both schools, at least when it comes to academic/research type career paths.</p>