Little College Guidance: 500 High School Students Per Counselor

I don’t even know what a directional college is. But, the graduation part sounds good.

Interesting, because I was asking about this sort of thing just a few days ago. I don’t understand the university’s need to get the town and school district involved in a student’s bad actions.

But, if they insist, there are over 3,000 other colleges and universities in the US…

Duke, or any other school, doesn’t “owe” any given high school any acceptances, so it’s a bit much to act as though you are entitled to them. Maybe, just maybe, they want to expand their pool of high schools they admit from instead of the (n+1)st affluent suburban kid. So, no. They didn’t “take a hiatus” because they didn’t owe your hs squat.

“Directional college” is a term sometimes used for less selective non-flagship state universities, which are sometimes named directionally, such as Eastern Michigan University, University of South Florida, University of North Texas, Western Washington University. However, not all less selective non-flagship state universities are named directionally, such as all of those named [city] State University, and some other schools not normally viewed as schools in this class have directions in their names, such as University of South Carolina, University of Southern California, Sewanee - University of the South.

Does Upper Peninsula State College qualify even though “upper” isn’t technically a direction?

@pizzagirl, I agree with you. @mamfum, your ‘airhead’ comment is a gross over-generalization. I’m out of this thread.

@pizzagirl… but it was still noticeable. And it hurt the high schools reputation at the time. The W and M decision was a financial one. The student got more money form their regular decision school. I think that is worth a thread of it’s own. Are students obligated to their E.D. school when a school of similar rank offers more money? I this time of very costly tuitions I’m really not sure. This is a huge amount of money for families to commit to.

@ucbalumnus‌. But it works for the university. The whole school system freaks out and then they have to beg the school to come back again. On the other hand; I think the whole system is being upended by the financial realities of the time. The tuitions have just risen too high too fast for the university/college system to be the enforcers of anything.

The student should not have applied ED if s/he wanted to compare prices. It is dishonorable for the student to back out of an ED admission that was affordable just because some other school comes back with a lower cost. The “insufficient financial aid” reason to back out of ED is only supposed to be used promptly, without waiting for other schools’ financial aid offers.

However, it is also dishonorable for the college to punish innocent third parties for the dishonorable student’s behavior. A dishonorable student probably cares nothing about punishments that are applied to third parties (as opposed to himself/herself), so such practices do not effectively deter dishonorable backing out of ED.

To make backing out of ED a real deterrent against dishonorable student behavior without causing collateral damage to innocent third parties, colleges should use the procedures described in reply #61. At the very least, the student should lose his/her enrollment deposit and have his/her name shared in an ED clearinghouse so that other schools that care about students honoring ED commitments can reject the student or rescind admission if already admitted.

I know you are technically right. But money is money to a family. It’s all so high stakes…and the colleges/university system is greatly to blame for the current state of tuition rates. I don’t see any of them taking a leadership role in trying to reduce costs for the consumer.

of course W and M had a choice too. They could have matched the generous aid offered by the competing college and they chose not too. Every penny counts in this game unless you are truly wealthy.

Money is money, but a deal is a deal. If you buy or sell some other product or service, would you be pleased if your counter-party backed out of the contract afterward? A student applying ED should know that s/he agrees to attend if admitted ED. S/he should also use the school’s net price calculator before applying – ethically, s/he should not back out unless the school gives a much worse financial aid offer based on the same financial parameters as the net price calculator run. As with any deal, one has to do prior due diligence to see that the financials of the deal are desirable enough to commit to the deal. If one does not want to commit before comparing offers, one should not make a binding commitment beforehand.

Of course, W&M’s punishment of the following students at the school creates the situation where the dishonorable ED student can back out without penalty for himself/herself, while causing the punishment to accrue to innocent third parties.

I think the ED schools should have a section on costs. It should say “This school costs $65k. How much can you pay? ___ How much will you be willing to take in student loans? ___ If I get a financial aid package of at least $_______, I will accept the ED offer.”

That would establish what the student will accept before comparing offers. The school will know whether the student will accept the ED offer or not. The school could still issue the FA offer on its terms, it just doesn’t have to play the game of whether this student can’t honestly afford the school or just wants out of the ED offer because something better came along.

I don’t like ED and the games it sets up, but if they are going to do it and the students are going to be bound/released from the offer, all the cards should be on the table.

I’m not blaming anyone. I’m just saying the situation exists. The school system has a new contract with all E.D. applicants. I’m not sure how they will enforce it if the situation should arise again. I do think it may be a problem that all school systems are going to see more of. In particular if tuitions continue to rise.

Re #75

However, this thread is about overloaded counselors who may not be paying attention.

Re #76

So what penalty does the school impose on the ED back outers?

Both the ED back outers and those colleges deserve to be blamed and shamed.

We don’t know yet. Maybe the school system will try to threaten not graduating? Maybe they will get involved with the schools themselves to try to honor the E.D. commitment? It’s not clear here yet. I think the school system just wants the paper signed so that they have proof that they have done their due diligence.

What does the student agree to in that contract?

Also, how many students does each GC handle at that school?

How about that - you want to make an incorrect decision and pay tons of money for it, then listen to counselor. If you want to a avoid this and and make intelligent desicion for your family and kid, then RESEARCH YOURSELF. There is no other way, you cannot make somebody who is priamrily hired to improve reputation of his employer - HS where your kid is attending, to care as much about your kid as you do. Of course, based on his goal counselor will suggest the mot prestigious UG that would be reasonable to expect to get accepted. This is not always the student’s goal and it really should not be. The best place for a kid is where kid fits personally the best and where your finances can afford to send your child, but again, your goal may coincide with the counselor’s, this is the only situation when you should listen to him…

^What does it mean in real situation?I am lost…

This is really not uncommon. My high school had 1600 students and four guidance counselors, and one guidance counselor was the administrative head of the guidance program. So that’s about 400 students per counselor. Middle-class students at public schools don’t expect hand-holding and personal dedication to the design of a tailored college list. The “guidance counselors” at my high school were more like administrative executives who took care of a lot of school paperwork than actual counselors. We didn’t expect them to help us select colleges; we really just needed them to fill out the GC form/write the GC letter.

And this is exactly what happened. I personally didn’t understand the financial aid process; I simply was not aware that some schools would cover my financial need. So I didn’t fill out the CSS PROFILE (not trusting a financial aid form I had to pay for). I also didn’t take any SAT IIs (not being aware of their importance) because they cost extra money and my parents could barely afford the $25 they gave me to take the SAT. Most of my friends either went to local colleges/universities or they went to the alma maters of our teachers, because those were the only colleges we’d of which we’d ever heard.

I never even heard of Naviance until I started hanging out here.